Food for thought
Hmm I wonder how many folks on this forum heard the BBC interview with the Ryanair CEO. In a nut shell he is predicating that passengers will fly for free in the near future their passage being paid by the advertisements on the aircraft and other on board sales and fees. He never specified whether or not the flight crew would have their working apparel adorned with ads or perhaps they will have to pay to work. Ryanair shares are down 40% for the year..
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Coming to Canada soon..pity
Jetsgo needs help!!!
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It's already here in the US...Rebel wrote:Food for thought
Hmm I wonder how many folks on this forum heard the BBC interview with the Ryanair CEO. In a nut shell he is predicating that passengers will fly for free in the near future their passage being paid by the advertisements on the aircraft and other on board sales and fees.
Coming to Canada soon..pity
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Pindunder Jeep
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YYCFLYGUY............LMAO at your last post!!!!! Great humour!
Pretty sad though when Jetsgo is advertising Toronto New York for $69. I don't know about you, but I can't drive my car to New York for $69!
I was looking around ebay the other day and found an Air Canada poster from 1962 advertising New York to Yarmouth for $76!
Good thing pilots in Canada are willing to pay to fly. We would never have these stupid fares otherwise!!
By the way...........where the %*$#@ are my pretzels!!!!
Pretty sad though when Jetsgo is advertising Toronto New York for $69. I don't know about you, but I can't drive my car to New York for $69!
I was looking around ebay the other day and found an Air Canada poster from 1962 advertising New York to Yarmouth for $76!
Good thing pilots in Canada are willing to pay to fly. We would never have these stupid fares otherwise!!
By the way...........where the %*$#@ are my pretzels!!!!
Looks good on paper, but will it fly?
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Cat Driver
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Pindunder Jeep
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Cat Driver
How long did it take you think that one up? I am not a mechanic, it is called humour.
By the way, should we be calling the SPCA
bootyshake
How long did it take you think that one up? I am not a mechanic, it is called humour.
By the way, should we be calling the SPCA
bootyshake
Last edited by Pindunder Jeep on Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looks good on paper, but will it fly?
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cockpit_cowboy
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i'm sure its been posted before, but something to consider about the jetsgo guys paying to fly...
They pay the 30K up front and it gets paid back with interest over 2 years. There are quite a few guys who either had the 30k, or borrowed it cheap that are making interest on their money. If Jetso pays the guys back at 8% and you borrowed it at 4% or less then i don't know of too many places that will give you an 4 to 8% return on your money right now...there are guys who have offered to loan another 30 after theirs has been paid off cause they're making money on it. Seems a bit different than paying for your job to me..my 2 cents.
They pay the 30K up front and it gets paid back with interest over 2 years. There are quite a few guys who either had the 30k, or borrowed it cheap that are making interest on their money. If Jetso pays the guys back at 8% and you borrowed it at 4% or less then i don't know of too many places that will give you an 4 to 8% return on your money right now...there are guys who have offered to loan another 30 after theirs has been paid off cause they're making money on it. Seems a bit different than paying for your job to me..my 2 cents.
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Pindunder Jeep
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tbaylx
That is a good argument, however, would you invest 30K into a bank where the CEO has a history of running banks into the ground?
That so called return on your investment will only hold true if the company sticks around. Analysts are saying that there is only a certain amount of time a company can stay viable selling 69 dollar tickets. Someone will not survive. You may have to stand in line as a creditor.
Is it possible that Jetsgo gets its cashflow from pilots putting money up front? If you treated your people well, why would they leave? If Jetsgo paid properly and treated its pilots well, why would anyone want to go anywhere else? Anyplace that is worth working for where you can say Ahhhhh I want to retire here, probably doesn't ask for money up front.
In summary.............If I had 30K to invest. An airline would be the last place I would invest it.
That is a good argument, however, would you invest 30K into a bank where the CEO has a history of running banks into the ground?
That so called return on your investment will only hold true if the company sticks around. Analysts are saying that there is only a certain amount of time a company can stay viable selling 69 dollar tickets. Someone will not survive. You may have to stand in line as a creditor.
Is it possible that Jetsgo gets its cashflow from pilots putting money up front? If you treated your people well, why would they leave? If Jetsgo paid properly and treated its pilots well, why would anyone want to go anywhere else? Anyplace that is worth working for where you can say Ahhhhh I want to retire here, probably doesn't ask for money up front.
In summary.............If I had 30K to invest. An airline would be the last place I would invest it.
Looks good on paper, but will it fly?
Toronto to New York is about 350 miles.
If you have a hundred seat airplane with a cost per seat mile of 11 cents, the cost of the trip is 350 x 100 x .11 = $3850
55 seats are the break even point.
If 90 seats are sold at $69, you get $5520, $2360 profit.
Return trip, twice a day is almost $10,000
Five days a week for a year works out to about $2.5 million.
They should be belly up any day now with those numbers.
If you have a hundred seat airplane with a cost per seat mile of 11 cents, the cost of the trip is 350 x 100 x .11 = $3850
55 seats are the break even point.
If 90 seats are sold at $69, you get $5520, $2360 profit.
Return trip, twice a day is almost $10,000
Five days a week for a year works out to about $2.5 million.
They should be belly up any day now with those numbers.
You can make numbers say what you want. Fuel, labour, aircraft aquisition are all rising but ticket prices keep going down. Not to dispute what you are saying bezerker ( however I am not sure where 11 cents came from ) but it just doesn't seem to a viable proposition in the long term.
I dunno..............I just fly them but I wish people would pay a proper price.
I dunno..............I just fly them but I wish people would pay a proper price.
Go for it
I made up the 11 cents/mile, but I guessed it was close.
From the Globe Investor:
"There's no question that Air Canada has made a lot of progress on cutting costs. According to industry analysts, the airline's cost per available seat mile — a key measure of efficiency — has dropped to about 14.5 cents from as much as 27 cents in 2002. WestJet's cost per ASM, however, is still substantially lower at about 11 cents, and Jetsgo says its costs are even lower still."
CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile) - The average cost of flying an aircraft seat one mile. Often referred to as a "unit cost" measurement. Calculated as Total Operating Costs/Total Available Seat Miles.
I don't know if Total Operating Costs covers everything. I know it doesn't cover taxes. WestJet includes Passenger services, Fuel, Maintenance, Amortization, Sales and marketing, Flight operations, General and administrative, Reservations, Aircraft leasing, Inflight, and Employee profit share in their CASM calculations.
Here is another way to do the math.
WestJet made about 50 million in the last year on about 5,531 million RPM's. That works out to about 1 cent net profit per RPM. It used to be about 2 cents back in 2000.
JetsGo flew 189,146,110 RPM's in August this year. Even if they are only making 0.1 cents profit per RPM it works out to over 2 million a year. Bump that up to 2 cents per RPM and you get close to 4 million a month.
I'm not backing up JetsGo or any other low cost carrier. I'm just saying that the numbers seem to work out. When you look at the math and still say it can't work just because it is cheaper to fly than to drive, well....
From the Globe Investor:
"There's no question that Air Canada has made a lot of progress on cutting costs. According to industry analysts, the airline's cost per available seat mile — a key measure of efficiency — has dropped to about 14.5 cents from as much as 27 cents in 2002. WestJet's cost per ASM, however, is still substantially lower at about 11 cents, and Jetsgo says its costs are even lower still."
CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile) - The average cost of flying an aircraft seat one mile. Often referred to as a "unit cost" measurement. Calculated as Total Operating Costs/Total Available Seat Miles.
I don't know if Total Operating Costs covers everything. I know it doesn't cover taxes. WestJet includes Passenger services, Fuel, Maintenance, Amortization, Sales and marketing, Flight operations, General and administrative, Reservations, Aircraft leasing, Inflight, and Employee profit share in their CASM calculations.
Here is another way to do the math.
WestJet made about 50 million in the last year on about 5,531 million RPM's. That works out to about 1 cent net profit per RPM. It used to be about 2 cents back in 2000.
JetsGo flew 189,146,110 RPM's in August this year. Even if they are only making 0.1 cents profit per RPM it works out to over 2 million a year. Bump that up to 2 cents per RPM and you get close to 4 million a month.
I'm not backing up JetsGo or any other low cost carrier. I'm just saying that the numbers seem to work out. When you look at the math and still say it can't work just because it is cheaper to fly than to drive, well....
