FSS Direct Entry

[Braun]

lol, Can I get my tuition refunded??? hehe Good for you guys that it worked out, our course was pretty successful as well!

Definately, but we don't get either lol.

[ypamcvey]

Like I said, I didn't get room & board paid for and that cost a lot more than $1000. I'll take room & board over tuition back any day.

Think about it, what would you rather do pay for your room and food for 5-6~ months or get $1000?

[Mohun]

CYPA is not a seniority bid site. If someone has a transfer request into CYPA, they can displace the new trainee. Also, with the LOS (Loss of Service) review, if it comes to layoffs, it will be done on a reverse order of seniority. That means latest hires (no offense ypamcvey) get laid off first. The trainee if CYQT should not be allowed to stay as it is a seniority bid site.

[thatdaveguy]

CYPA is not a seniority bid site. If someone has a transfer request into CYPA, they can displace the new trainee. Also, with the LOS (Loss of Service) review, if it comes to layoffs, it will be done on a reverse order of seniority. That means latest hires (no offense ypamcvey) get laid off first. The trainee if CYQT should not be allowed to stay as it is a seniority bid site.

lots of "shoulds" in your post that often don't pan out. if they do, it takes years.

[W0XOF]

CYPA is not a seniority bid site. If someone has a transfer request into CYPA, they can displace the new trainee. Also, with the LOS (Loss of Service) review, if it comes to layoffs, it will be done on a reverse order of seniority. That means latest hires (no offense ypamcvey) get laid off first. The trainee if CYQT should not be allowed to stay as it is a seniority bid site.

lots of "shoulds" in your post that often don't pan out. if they do, it takes years.

Even though I did get the CYPA seniority bid site designation wrong (my apologies), with our group facing a downsizing of at least 100 members (that's before the Level of Service results!), what Mohun has stated will happen much sooner than later. It's called reverse seniority and is in our contract.

Unless of course the top 100 (plus the LOS postions lost) take the buyout.

[thatdaveguy]

CYPA is not a seniority bid site. If someone has a transfer request into CYPA, they can displace the new trainee. Also, with the LOS (Loss of Service) review, if it comes to layoffs, it will be done on a reverse order of seniority. That means latest hires (no offense ypamcvey) get laid off first. The trainee if CYQT should not be allowed to stay as it is a seniority bid site.

lots of "shoulds" in your post that often don't pan out. if they do, it takes years.

Even though I did get the CYPA seniority bid site designation wrong (my apologies), with our group facing a downsizing of at least 100 members (that's before the Level of Service results!), what Mohun has stated will happen much sooner than later. It's called reverse seniority and is in our contract.

Unless of course the top 100 (plus the LOS postions lost) take the buyout.

that wasn't what i was really referring to. i meant just because it's a seniority bid site, it often takes years to get temp postings out of there. it's also a ton less likely they'll boot a temp posting for someone with seniority at a non-bid site. it's also even less likely they'll shuffle anyone around right now with the impending doom on the horizon

[Mohun]

Mohun wrote:
CYPA is not a seniority bid site. If someone has a transfer request into CYPA, they can displace the new trainee. Also, with the LOS (Loss of Service) review, if it comes to layoffs, it will be done on a reverse order of seniority. That means latest hires (no offense ypamcvey) get laid off first. The trainee if CYQT should not be allowed to stay as it is a seniority bid site.


lots of "shoulds" in your post that often don't pan out. if they do, it takes years.

I only count one "should", but I get your point.

[bop]

I'm pretty sure our contract says that employees who do not graduate from NCTI are not included in the collective agreement, anyone know how the contract applies to the apprenticeship? Seems to me that the whole idea sort of contradicts how things are supposed to work within the bargaining unit.

[W0XOF]

This is the only reference I can find in the contract. Doesn't look like any requirement to go through NCTI. However, you have to be a member of ATSAC to work as an FSS.


4.02 (a) Every employee of the bargaining unit who is now, or hereafter
becomes a member of the Union, shall maintain his or her
membership in the Union as a condition of his or her employment
and every new employee shall within thirty (30) days after the
commencement of his or her employment, or after graduation from
the national training school, apply for and thereafter maintain
membership in the Union as a condition of his or her employment.

[bop]

I was thinking of this reference

39.06 Ab Initio Trainees
Ab initio trainees who have not graduated from a Flight Service Specialist
course given by the NAV CANADA Training Institute or the abbreviated
Gander Unit Specific Training (GUST) program shall not be governed by
the present Collective Agreement.

[W0XOF]

That's correct, but that only applies to the on job training period. Ie, the company doesn't have to pay the trainee during the QTP portion of their training. Only upon checkout. Whereas out of NCTI you become an FSS-00, and start getting paid from your first day of on job training.

Now, I don't know if they are getting paid prior to checkout or not. The poster from CYPA could let us know??? But that is one example of the consequences of that article.

[ypamcvey]

I was paid during my QTP.

[con771]

How can someone apply for this?

[thatdaveguy]

How can someone apply for this?

it's unlikely they'll be hiring any FSS for a few years, nevermind for this program. sorry.

[aklinz]

Just to clarify: Should a new trainee qualify at his "training site" he or she will remain there. All this blather about seniority bid sites vs non-seniority bid sites is simply outdated nonsense. In Western Region we have not had any bids for almost two and a half years. We do, however, have about 30 so-called temps and NCTI grads occupying positions in Seniority bid sites. We have also seen numerous instances of failed ATC trainees being shuffled to seniority bid sites under the table. Essentially (at least in Western Region) Seniority Bidding has been eliminated. And with the impending LOS, you can expect NO staffing action from the company. Hope you like where you are at because it appears that you are stuck there permanently.

[lilfssister]

From what we get from the union, once the buyouts, ATC training and paid moves have been settled, there will be a national seniority bid. I would assume the survey where you indicated preferences for placement, along with the previously mentioned ATC training buyouts, etc, indicated that a lot of people would like to move.

[Mohun]

Just to clarify: Should a new trainee qualify at his "training site" he or she will remain there. All this blather about seniority bid sites vs non-seniority bid sites is simply outdated nonsense. In Western Region we have not had any bids for almost two and a half years. We do, however, have about 30 so-called temps and NCTI grads occupying positions in Seniority bid sites. We have also seen numerous instances of failed ATC trainees being shuffled to seniority bid sites under the table. Essentially (at least in Western Region) Seniority Bidding has been eliminated. And with the impending LOS, you can expect NO staffing action from the company. Hope you like where you are at because it appears that you are stuck there permanently.

Didn't someone from CYEG FIC win a bid into Victoria Harbour and just check out?

[W0XOF]

Just to clarify: Should a new trainee qualify at his "training site" he or she will remain there. All this blather about seniority bid sites vs non-seniority bid sites is simply outdated nonsense. In Western Region we have not had any bids for almost two and a half years. We do, however, have about 30 so-called temps and NCTI grads occupying positions in Seniority bid sites. We have also seen numerous instances of failed ATC trainees being shuffled to seniority bid sites under the table. Essentially (at least in Western Region) Seniority Bidding has been eliminated. And with the impending LOS, you can expect NO staffing action from the company. Hope you like where you are at because it appears that you are stuck there permanently.

Come on aklinz (not a very anonymous handle, I'll give you credit for that), you know your statements above are completely false. Just your regular union bashing by the looks of it. There are temps at bid sites, but they will all be moved with the HR/Union plan that lilfssister referred to.

If I remember correctly aklinz, you were part of the reason temps were sent to seniority bid sites. Remember that bid to YBL that you accepted, then declined then accepted again then declined??? Well that certainly left them short staffed and they had no choice but to post a temp there. you are the last person who should be complaining. Oh, but you always do..............

Yes, there was a bid out of YEG into YWH and they did qualify.

[aklinz]

Hmmmm accepted, then declined, then accepted, then declined ? I think not.... No provisions in the contract for that, I'm afraid. (Incidentally, the NCTI grad that was displaced is now residing in CYCD. Where was THAT Bid )? Oh wait ! Everything I said was false. You clearly are the arbitrer of truth and light I suppose. Oh, I see. So there is NOT a trainee currently beginning QTP in CYQF ? (better check dude) Then there wasn't an FSS sent directly to CYKA AAS ? Again, better check your facts. And there are NO NCTI grads in senioruty bid sites ? Oh dear, I guess EVERYONE but "woxof" is mis-informed.... And as I stated in another thread, the recent checkout in CYWH was selected from a list that was well over a year old, which is against the contract. (again, check your facts before you rant).

On another note, I am saddened to see the same tired, malicious old people that castigate and denigrate; just like on the old "Grapevine". I do note, however, that it only took you a few hours to come out of the wood work. I do NOT waste my time with attitudes like you; keep it civilized and polite (just TRY). In the meantime, I will IGNORE you so don't bother with any more uninformed ranting.

For all else on this forum, we look forward to any new information that you can provide. Any possible info on when this National HR plan will be released ? And for anyone who is interested, we had two in CYEG who took the 35K and two who are in for EOCO CZEG courses starting in mid May. There have been no VFR ATC courses offered here (as yet)
Regards
Andrew Klinzmann

[grimey]

In Western Region we have not had any bids for almost two and a half years.

Odd, I won one 15 months ago.

Joe Seatter, Peace River FSS March-September 2008, Thompson 2004-2008.

[aklinz]

Sorry Joe. CYPE did occur (that one slipped by) But other than that ?? What are you hearing about your upcoming Aeronautical studies ?
Any time frame ?

Andrew Klinzmann

[grimey]

Sorry Joe. CYPE did occur (that one slipped by) But other than that ?? What are you hearing about your upcoming Aeronautical studies ?
Any time frame ?

Andrew Klinzmann

I quit 6 months ago (for reasons totally unrelated to Nav Canada's behaviour with respect to ATSAC), and am very much out of the loop now.

[W0XOF]

Typical Andrew. You actually wrote a whole paragraph to rebut my post but you actually have just confirmed what I posted:

There are temps at bid sites, but they will all be moved with the HR/Union plan that lilfssister referred to.

Maybe you just didn't want to take the time to read the post.

As far as your bid in to YBL went, I was wrong. You accepted, waved your return rights, then begged to get them back, then wanted to give them up again??? Something like that, I'm not far off anyhow. End result, you wasted the whole bid list when you accepted and left them short when you pulled out. THAT is one reason why temps are placed at bid sites. THAT is also why the Company and Union agree to keep eligible bid lists for much longer. Because of exactly what you did. Nice to see that issues you complain about are the issues that have been directly attributed to by you.

You didn't impress your fellow Specialists in YBL.

If you are serious about getting an accurate answer, call your ATSAC V.P. Or are there issues there also............

[Mohun]

Hmmmm accepted, then declined, then accepted, then declined ? I think not.... No provisions in the contract for that, I'm afraid. (Incidentally, the NCTI grad that was displaced is now residing in CYCD. Where was THAT Bid )? Oh wait ! Everything I said was false. You clearly are the arbitrer of truth and light I suppose. Oh, I see. So there is NOT a trainee currently beginning QTP in CYQF ? (better check dude) Then there wasn't an FSS sent directly to CYKA AAS ? Again, better check your facts. And there are NO NCTI grads in senioruty bid sites ? Oh dear, I guess EVERYONE but "woxof" is mis-informed.... And as I stated in another thread, the recent checkout in CYWH was selected from a list that was well over a year old, which is against the contract. (again, check your facts before you rant).

On another note, I am saddened to see the same tired, malicious old people that castigate and denigrate; just like on the old "Grapevine". I do note, however, that it only took you a few hours to come out of the wood work. I do NOT waste my time with attitudes like you; keep it civilized and polite (just TRY). In the meantime, I will IGNORE you so don't bother with any more uninformed ranting.

For all else on this forum, we look forward to any new information that you can provide. Any possible info on when this National HR plan will be released ? And for anyone who is interested, we had two in CYEG who took the 35K and two who are in for EOCO CZEG courses starting in mid May. There have been no VFR ATC courses offered here (as yet)
Regards
Andrew Klinzmann

Sorry if this gets posted twice, the other one went missing.

I will try to be polite, but you may want to get informed yourself. The one year rule you are referring to is for FIC's (article 38.04 (h)). And, it's not 1 year, it is 6 months. It is an eligibility list for any other positions that come open.

At AAS units, when a company runs a bid for 1 position, they can draw from the list until someone is successful in checking out. Whether that is 6 months, or 16 months.

[aklinz]

Hello Mohun.
Sorry, but the CYWH Seniority bid was originally posted for 2 positions. And (as per the contract) it did NOT state that an Elligibility list would be used. Contract states that if a list is to be used, the original Bid must state that. Also, after some months, the company changed the bid to a: have 3 positions and b: use a seniority list. These revisions came after the bid was closed, and these are the issues that violate the contract. There are a number of people here that would have bid if they had known these things, and as such, were unfairly shut out of the bid process.
Also, thanks for your polite and respectful tone. Nice to talk to an adult.
Regards
Andrew Klinzmann