SQ wrote:

So SQ, how did that Jazz cadet program go? Update?

relax man, its raining, lets have fun, dont take things seriously, the best ideas came from jokes
you can for instance take the time to read what Cx is gonna do and then go on your AC aeronet, gather some informations, compare, discuss with other people like the A340 fleet manager deployment, compare the mind set between an american managed company like AC and an occidental company based in HKG wich have 2 very different ways to react with those oil prices.
after that you can discuss with a chief pilot of a european low cost carrier and ask him how they're going to deal with this situation
you can also call the middleeast compaies just to have a more precise idea about their requirements (you'd be very surprised)
in fact, you can just get interested in whats happening outside your lil canadian province, no ?
you would be stuned about what's happening all around you, and you would discover tons of possibilities.
open your mind, dont be so condescending

Nothing condescending about my question. How did Jazz go? Are you online yet? I'm really curious how things went.

He's not on line yet.

I think you're making a mistake, I'm not on line, not even a cadet - too old fort that,not inteligent enough - but I'm working fort them and know their defaults too well...
If I have the choice, of course, I wouldnt even go to Jazz, there is much better, funny, interesting & respectfull companies toward employees.
1500 hrs to go to jazz is only 500 hrs from other employers that are much more interesting to do a long term carrier.
it is worth to wait a bit more, or insist a bit.

thanks for asking anyway

There is demand for traffic between India & Canada, but it's not the business kind.... it's the immigrant kind whom are looking for cheap tickets! So when you fill up an a343 with cheap tickets on a long haul....guess what? Your loosing money!

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that statement again for several reasons

1 - when applying to immigrate to canada you have to proove the amount of money you pretend to take with you while arriving in canada. $election is such that imigration is not cheap imigration, and I'm talking about europeans, north african, indian and chinese.
the average imigrant have more money to spend on a short term basis than any middle class canadian because he has a familly to feed, a rent to pay and an internet card to pay in order to send his resume all over canada.
those immigrant are also very qualified because canada doesnt want to import people without degree...
because you find them driving a cab doesnot mean anything just look at that resume : http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 92&t=44293
Do you think this gentleman is a poor imigrant, I doubt,but hes working in a rentacar instead of a 747 cockpit

2 - if you can even try this experience of loading bags for an aircraft,an air canada flight,you'llnoticethat onthe 864 from YULto FRA, only 2 canare local bags,this means that on 12 cans of passengers, 10 of them are commuting pax. they comute to libanon, turkish, and many othermiddle east destination. it means 16% ofthe pax on 864 are going to FRA,84%are commuting to other destinations.isnt there something to take here

3 a round ticket to tunis or alger or any other mediterranean destination is at least 1500$. poeple have usually to do YUL-
CDG then alger or tunis or casablanca.
when they go trhough France they have to take a french visa just to spend 2 hours in the international zone which is allways slow and complicated.
1500$ is not a cheap price ticket neither an immigrant price or I should revisemy standards

4 howdidlow cost carriers challenged the so called legacy airlines = bycreating routes between town where those airlines didnt want to go = yarmouth-london,Geneva- lyon, madrid-limoges etc on a much more little territory whre there are thousands of big hubs, sothisargument is not a good one
if you want to make money,go where nobody wants to gobut the pax

5 by lowering the service offered to customers- which service often isnot worth the price of an employee pass, air canada
looks like a regional carrier with international pretentions

Iknow I may have a narrow understaNDING OF THIS VERY COMPLICATED BUSINESS, I know I still have things to understand but the fact that AC is announcing layoffs instead of looking for solution is a mark of weackness in its management,ideasand above all, anticipation.

oilprice have been raising for 6 consecutive months....................

I see that your passionate about the subject & I do share some frustrations with you about the company. But first, here is my input on your points...

*1) I don't doubt that some immigrants dip their pockets when moving....but the bottom line is, that business routes are far more attractive in profitability then immigrant/tourist routes.
For ex: YUL-FRA is a high yield route becuase the RPM (Revenue per passenger mile) would exceed that of YUL-Algiers.
This is due to the fact that there is a higher market for premium seats (First/business).

Now just to be clear. When I mean Immigrant traffic, I am also referring to people who travel to visit family home.
Most of these people are looking for the cheapest price around.....for ex: YYZ-DEL. The plane had a 95% load factor, but the RPMs were sooo low! The route never lost a lot of money.

Since the company is cutting capacity by a lot, they have to concentrate on higher yield markets or strategic routes (Asia).

Don't get me wrong.....they could make a buck off these routes! Ac tried to do YUL-Beirut. The problem is, Milton wants to cover those long term image routes instead. So in the end, it is a cut capacity in the Asian network to fly to north africa! You & I know that it's not happening!


*2)FRA is a huge cargo & pax network through Lufthansa....but remember that much of it is also inter euro, India, russia, Dubai, movement.


*3) 1500$ is not a whole lot since your covering extra distance. Higher yield routes like FRA, LHR, CDG have more passengers whom are willing to pay for premium seats. So when you have premium pax paying at least 5000$ round trip for yul-cdg....$$$$$

Not so many willing to do that for north african routes????


*4)Don't compare the domestic low cost carrier market with the long haul!

The point of a hub is to increase network efficiency....Air Canada doesn't have the means to cover all the routes.
This is why Air canada has been loosing out to Cathay on the YVR-HKG route. Cathay has a network to support the traffic & Air canada doesn't! Cathay is going three daily...Air Canada is only flying once & it's not doing so well.


*5) Ac has had their priorities mixed up for a long time. Rather then focusing on money making routes & profitability, they have been focusing on long term strategic routes.
YVR-Nagoya = financial disaster
YVR-Osaka = financial disaster
& there's more....
They cut out YUL-FCO so they can put back another useless route like YYZ-MAD...


Anyways, enough with the rant. Hope you see my point?

I see your point very well Ice
reflexion and arguments are allways better than scornful coments hiding ignorance

did milton bid on those long term routes to build Air Canada prestige instead of thinking about profit and efficientcy?
yes AC doesn't have enough aircraft and capabilites to buy all the aircraft it would need to be competitive with CX or others.
very long-haul carrier got established along few decades for the older, or on big prestigious orders

for how long has AC tried to get that king of image?
not a long time and the clock is running.....

I agree with Ice Man's post. With high oil prices and a struggling economy, companies are not about to start any new routes that involve leisure travellers. These are the pax that are the most sensitive to price changes. People flying for business are much less price sensitive since they have to be where they have to be.

Cathay has been around for a long time and they're not idiots. They raised the fares for Business and First Class pax who will, for the most part, pay the extra money and be done with it. Economy class is staying where it is, since demand is probably down in that section as it is. So Mr. Chan, who has business to do in Dubai is going to Dubai even if it does cost him more. On the other hand, Amir who now lives in Montreal is more likely to wait an extra 6 months to go see his family if prices go up. Starting a route like that, which focuses on leisure travellers is way to risky for AC to try now. Same goes for the Caribbean/Mexico routes. If the economy tanks, they'll cut those runs. If it costs too much money, I'm not going to Mexico for an all inclusive booze fest. I'll get drunk at home!