Possible Survey Flying Job

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:33 pm

hey greenguy...what are the rotations at SGL these days? are they still longer than 60 days?

greenguy · Post by **greenguy** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:39 pm

not sure. never worked for either company. The 3 month thing is pretty common with both I thought.

mushr00m · Post by **mushr00m** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:13 am

....Be very careful if you're thinking of getting into survey flying.
A) 2 or 3 month on with one month off may sound cool, on paper, but most people can't handle the isolation for that long.
B) The flying is rather uselss, as far as career developement and improving/maintaining IFR skills, trust me on this one I see it all the time.
C) If you're looking at it as a way to build time...well, not all time is considered equal by all employers. A lot actually frown on survey flying.

I'm stuck surveying now and let me tell you...it is the most useless job I have ever had in aviation. I definately got more out of instructing than survey (I think instructing is under-rated). Anyway, buyer beware.

Survey isn't for everybody....in fact it shouldn't be for anybody!

PT6-114A · Post by **PT6-114A** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:37 am

Mushroom I agree with you that it is not for every one but when you say that it should not be for any one and the time is useless and instructing is better I think that you need to take a nother look or get out. I loved the time flying we were SP doing ours so you just pluged in the disk man and away you went. The time is good and I think that it realy helped with being able to shoot the ILS by hand. If you have a PPC on the caravan you should have no problem with finding a job out side of survey. Ya the 2 or 3 month thing is not for everyone but neather is flying in the north may be you would be happer making no money and living in the city teaching.

mushr00m · Post by **mushr00m** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:46 am

PT6-114A

Ya, you're right! I'm just bitter. I wish we could listen to music...it would definately make the time go by quicker....company policy....and the grumpy old operators in the back would rat us out. I think it's time to bail-out!!!

Cheers

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:39 pm

mushr00m, i might have agreed with you a while back. But now I think that survey flying, while maybe not the best for getting operational IFR experience, is not at all a waste of time. If you are gunning for the airlines, survey is the wrong place for you. But, if you want a good lifestyle, and exciting travel and good pay, survey can be great. I agree, though, it is not for everyone. Maybe you work for one of the less desirable places like Goldak, Geodesy, or Terraquest, (in which case I could see why you would be bitter) I am not sure, but if you work for a good survey company, you get great experience. survey flying shows that you can work without supervision and be safe and efficient. It also gives you tonnes of experience with different operating environments, something you will never get from most charter co's. I never fly the same route twice, am always going into unfmailiar environments, and get the opportunity to work in many countries and probably log about 50-100 hours IFR per year on ferry flights. Now, I know that not all survey companies are like this, so I am rather fortunate. I get to fly well maintained aircraft with great nav packages, like the Garmin 430/Sandel EHSI set-up, and we get full IFR GPS PPC's. None of this VFR PCC crap like Fugro does with their caravan and C404 pilots. the other thing is, a well experienced pilot with lots of PIC time, but less IFR time can be taught to fly IFR. A low time pilot that has only IFR time cannot be taught to make decisions. Decision making has to be learned, mostly, and that's what survey can do for you. It can teach you decision making. That is just as valuable as high amounts of IFR time. It is the technique that is taught, it's the decision making that you can only learn for yourself.

greenguy, i assumed from your know-it-all attitude that you worked for Sanders. I guess not. Anyways, I think you will find that most of the good survey companies around have rotations of 2 months or less, and that 3 months is NOT AT ALL STANDARD. Personally, I work one month on, one month off for more pay than the guys that work 2 months on, one month off. Not gloating here, just happy to have found the job that I have.

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:37 pm

So Wallypilot, what survey companies do you consider "reputable," and what sort of minimums do they usually look for

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:49 am

I didn't say less reputable. I said less desirable. In terms of the geophysics, I am sure that all companies give a good product. I am merely talking about desirable places to work. Those are the ones that have shorter rotations, better pay, better training, send engineers with almost every airplane that goes into the field, and other little things that make a huge difference. I don't think that any company is not "reputable", just maybe a less desirable place to work. Would you rather have a 3 month long rotation, or a 1 month long? You want your choice of places to live, or be forced to live in a certain place. This is all I am talking about. And despite my comment about fugro only doing VFR PCC's, other than that it is a very decent place to work. I'm not saying that I wouldn't work at the less desirable places, either. I am just saying there are some places that have long rotations, poor logisitcal organization, fly zero IFR, and people can get frustrated.

As far as I know, mins vary, but I have not seen any of the bigger survey companies with mins below 2000 and some related experience for caravan/navajo/404 capt.

My personal list decent survey places to work...Fugro Airborne Surveys, Sanders Geophysics (other than the long rotations...3 months is pretty long), Aries Aviation. There are probably a couple more that I don't know about, so don't consider this an exhaustive list. I have heard that Hautemont in Quebec City is a good place to work.

There are some other companies around as well, but many tend to have undefined rotations and usually don't send engineers out with the airplane. In other words, you could be out for like 5 or 6 months, not knowing when you will be released to go home.

TG · Post by TG » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:01 pm

tut! tut!
Fugro's might do VFR PCC's on their C-208/404 but SOP's and security is the way to be and all initial training/recurency are done with Flight Safety.
Except the Casa's (no sim for this kind of A/C) but no PCC's as well, only PPC's (over 12500lbs anyway)

Apparently, they are only missing the one month on, one month off setting.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:59 pm

yeah, i know that the casa drivers get PPC's, and I have no problem with VFR PCC along with the Flight Safety Training. I am merely looking at it from a point of view of experience. Having to do a PPC ride every so often is a challenge and personally, I think it keeps me sharper than doing the company PCC. i don't think that having the PCC is any less safe. It's just nice to be with a co. that does the full PPC even on the lighter aircraft like PA31/Caravan, etc. I think the Fugro flight department does a good job within the organization they are in. It's the beaurocracy in the puzzle palace that really can drive one crazy! I think it was probably way better when it was still Geoterrex.

and for the most part, you are right TG....the biggest thing missing from Fugro is the one month rotations. althought the montreal office can really cause one to be committed to an asylum.

Butterfly · Post by **Butterfly** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:13 pm

Hi Boys (I guess). I'm new here. I used to work for SGL too. Good place to see the world but be careful of the training and of the Ops manager...

greenguy · Post by **greenguy** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:57 pm

Like I said before. Those of you who want nothing but a Cdn. experience stay here. All the more jobs for those of us who want to see the world.

And No survey flying is not frowned upon in the IFR env. In fact most of them envy it .