Sandy Lake Seaplanes

[Rubberbiscuit]

So what are you trying to say? That because Native Reserves can be a rough place it is not worth going north for some hard earned time and experience? I know many a guy that started out up there with various outfits. They all came out at the other end of the tunnel that much wiser and better as pilots and persons. I have worked with and have even hired guys from there, and I knew that anyone coming from Sandy Lake Sea Planes amongst many other outfits around that area with a good reference, would not be afraid of hard work, would not be whiners and would not run crying home to moomy if they where asked pitch in where needed etc.

[Hoov]

1500 is really low, I dont care how great Tim and Tom are.

[Rubberbiscuit]

1500 is really low, I dont care how great Tim and Tom are.

Can't argue with that really. I am pretty sure it would go up fast for anyone doing a good job and look like they might hang around long enough to make it worth while for them though. I made more right off the bat but came there with a little bit relevant experience. They have felt the upswing in the industry over the last few years just like any other 703/704 operation.

[Doc]

It's a 1 year training bond ... for $4000.00.[/quote]


A bond....to work in Sandy Lake....please somebody get these people off drugs!

[SlumpBust]

It's a promissary note, not a bond. I know people that have worked ther for 9, 10 or 11 months. A few months short is easily looked over if you have put in your time and work hard for them. The "aggreement" is to protect themselves from some of the many low class pilots out there from coming in, getting trained, getting 500 or whatever TT they are looking for and then skipping out at their first chance for a right seat job. With saying that, you ARE expected to stay for 1 year, I'm just saying that sometimes, if you are a good worker and stay positive, it can be over looked.

[Doc]

A "promissory note" is a bond. It may not be money up front....that would be "buying" the job, but don't kid yourself...it IS a bond.
You might want to check out all the fun activities in Sandy Lake BEFORE you have a brain fart and sign anything....?

[Eagle Laker]

Ya a bond/note to fly a 206/207 really though. I started out on a 182 and never signed a note/bond. That seems outta hand, I realize that guys/gals will leave and move on but whatever happened to a man is as good as his word. Hmmm, to fly a 206 they aren't sending you to PAM or Flight Safety. They aren't spending a lot of money to train (relatively) and think that a lot of guys are getting checked out on a 185/206/180 every spring and no note/bond just stick around for a bit. T and T were really good friends of my old mans back in the day and I know them well but give your head a shake!!!!
Go and find a job without a bond lots out there (even in a Caravan). All the rest of the stuff being said, well do your own research and weed out the dumbasses/slackers/ whatever. Flown in shitty spots and realized that it's all part of the adventure, and at Sandy catch a truck on the winter road and get out.

[iflyforpie]

I fly a 206 (on wheels) and not even a thought of a training bond at my company. Even for a PPC. Gosh how much does it cost to give three hours of instruction on a 206, write a few tests and read some manuals? A day's base pay and three hours' on the 206 at charter rates doesn't add up to $4000 (and really the company is only paying DOC on the plane and flight pay for the check pilot).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Jesus what is the world coming to three hours to check out on a Cessna 206...on wheels ??

I could see three circuits, but three hours?

[iflyforpie]

CARs minimums for initial line indoctrination. I guess 'checkout' isn't the right word..

[Chuck Ellsworth]

CARs minimums for initial line indoctrination.

Sorry, how stupid of me, I trust you will forgive me for being from a era that didn't need CAR's to dictate how we tied our shoe laces.

Or to put it another way suppose a pilot started with a new company and said pilot had been flying the bush for twenty five years in everything but a C206 would he/she still need three hours of " Indoctrination " ?

[SlumpBust]

Doc, I see your point and I understand the similarities between a "bond" and a "promissory note". You are right.

Now, the reality of this job is that the bond really is a non issue for the guy/gal that takes this job. It is highly likely that it will be a low timer looking for their first job. That hard to find "break" where you fly for your first aviation job rather than spending 1.5 - 2 years on the ramp. A lot of the new hires that go through the system in Sandy are in their early twenties with the ink still dripping off their licenses (I would know, I was one of em).

It is easy for higher time guys to sit back and say "dont pay bonds", "dont buy your job" but for a lot of newer pilots starting out these days it is the only option. I do however agree that we shouldn't have to pay bonds for our jobs. The reality is, unfortunately, most of us do have to pay them.

I dont see how we can criticize the guys in Sandy for asking for a little security when they are hiring someone off the street they know little about when we have much larger companies asking for $10,000+ up front for upgrading from within the company. People that have been with a company for 2+ years now have to pay out of their own pocket to work for the company that, they already work for. This is getting off topic and I dont want to argue bonds.

Sandy Lake isn't for everyone, but if you take this job, you will be well taken care of, you will learn tonnes from T & T, and you will fly lots. We have heard lots here from past and present employees, and people that think they might have heard something about this place 5-10 years ago. I myself had a great experience in Sandy and when it came time for me to leave, T & T actually helped me get my next job and pushed for me the entire way. Not many employers help their most senior pilots find new jobs but in Sandy if you live up to your end of the deal, you will be rewarded. There will never be a grudge or hard feelings towards a pilot that leaves after his 1 year is done. Reality is, TJ is as upfront and honest as they come, so if you have a question, ask, and you will get a straight answer. All you can do is go up and find out for yourself. And for the love of god dont drink the super juice! (last I heard it hadnt made it to Sandy yet, the Garden Hill FN wont release the recipe)

[iflyforpie]

I flew a 205 before and all a 206 is is a 205 with 40 more HP and a cargo door. Still had to have three hours, but I didn't complain. I like flying and it shows you the operation as well.

Back to the bond thing. If every low-time pilot refused to take a bond they (the bonds) would go away in a big hurry. After all we are not talking big dollars for training. This is the first I've heard of a bond for a single piston operator.

[cessnafloatflyer]

The bond isn't for the training costs... it's for the security that they won't have to bother finding another pilot and be without when you break your 1 year commitment.
If it's not for you don't do it... if you can stomach it then by all means go for it.

As far as a PCC goes, the three hours can seem like a lot but for a guy with 200 hours it's a good idea to get familiar with all of the systems and characteristics before hauling around with passengers. If you have a valid PCC then it's 1 hour.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I flew a 205 before and all a 206 is is a 205 with 40 more HP and a cargo door. Still had to have three hours, but I didn't complain. I like flying and it shows you the operation as well

We are all different I guess, personally I would be insulted to have to train for three hours going from one airplane to another when there is so little difference.

But hey everyone to their own thing.

[Doc]

Anybody, who signs anything anywhere near 4,000$ and makes a year long commitment to fly a piston single engine aircraft on a reserve is a MORON!

And, BTW I know, and like Tim. And Tom...but that's just nuts!

You show up to fly. Refuse to sign anything....and believe me...they'll be happy to hire you anyway.

[North Shore]

I flew a 205 before and all a 206 is is a 205 with 40 more HP and a cargo door. Still had to have three hours, but I didn't complain. I like flying and it shows you the operation as well.

Are you talking rotary here? I didn't know that Cessna made a 205...

WRT bonds...I'm pretty sure that it's a moot point right now - in a year, people will be glad to have a seat, let alone be looking to move on..

Edited to add: Reserve life can be a little rough around the edges, and not for everyone, but I'd go back to work for T&T any time, if I had to..

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yes North Shore Cessna did make a 205, not many but a few.

I flew one in Ft. Mac Murray for a few hours many years ago.

[Doc]

Which one is the "crowd killer", and which one is the "bowling ally"? Biggest single Cessna I ever flew was a 182. Probably the best single Cessna ever built....piston, at least.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Doc, the best piston engine Cessna ever built was the 421 Golden Eagle.

[North Shore]

Yes North Shore Cessna did make a 205, not many but a few.

I flew one in Ft. Mac Murray for a few hours many years ago.

Well, now that I've looked it up, so they did. Hmm, learn something new every day..

[Doc]

Doc, the best piston engine Cessna ever built was the 421 Golden Eagle.

I always thought they were a bit of a hangar queen....geared engines and all? Never flown one. Liked the 310 though....hated the 320! That was Sky King's Song Bird, the one everybody thought was a 310!

[iflyforpie]

Most AMEs call the 421 the Golden Turkey. I'd buy a 414 and take the lower performance to get rid of the geared engines. I'm not going IFR in either of those planes around here anyways.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Are geared engines unreliable if they are operated properly?

[iflyforpie]

Murphy's First Law:

If it can fail it will.