Chinese flight students grounded in N.L.

[lownslow]

It would be interesting to compare the sale of Cox 049s in the 1970s with today.
Most kids don't know what a Cox 049 is...

Sadly, it's zero today. They went out of production a couple years ago and from what I heard the last few years of production were Chinese made junk with hit and miss tolerances.

Low-N-Slow

[MichaelP]

Thai Airways doesn't hire foreign pilots

Mai dee mak mak...

BIG trouble for us farangs though... So many of us foreigners broke the regulations that we now have to write two exams and wait three months for our licence validations.

When I first went to Thailand; flying little aeroplanes was getting easier and better... There were some restrictions but these were slowly lifting.
But my fellow Europeans broke regulation after regulation... Imagine the thoughts of a General as he saw microlight aircraft fly past the military aerodrome at low level believing they were under the radar.
I witnessed a lot of wrong doing... I wasn't flying with a student, he went solo at 11 hours, he was told I would not send him solo... I asked him if he had his Student Pilot Permit? No, and no I wouldn't send him solo without the document in his hand.
Like here, there I obeyed the regulations, but now I have to pay the price for my fellow's foolishness.
We are not Thai, we can't do it the Thai way, we have to be absolutely correct.

Moral: Avoid doing stupid things in foreign countries because you think you can get away with it.

I'll write the exams next month and perhaps once again I'll be able to fly in heaven.

[Panama Jack]

So tell me one more time what microlights flying over a Royal Thai Air Force Base has to do with foreign pilots at Thai Airways? Major Foreign Airlines typically require the same types of qualifications as do national ones-- like an ATP, probably a type rating with experience on type, and a clean history. They don't grab the nearest farang at the local aeroclub field or send the press gang down to Nana Plaza.

My point is only slightly tongue-in-cheek. Thai Orient Airways and Phuket Air have expats on their payroll but the winds are blowing towards nationalization of the pilot ranks, and this I understand. I was told just a couple of days ago that Thai Airways had a number of expats in the cockpit. What happened? The Asian Economic Crisis in the late 1990's. And Thai Airways cleaned house.

Good luck in your Thai exams. Are you going to be flying up in Chiangmai at Nok?

[MichaelP]

The crash at Phuket was with a foreign pilot at the controls, (I believe he was Indonesian?), and I believe there was some sort of argument in the cockpit to go around or not to go around.
This was the big one that upset the Thai DCA and foreign professional pilots all lost face.

Thailand is very much for Thais and farangs are not easily trusted.
We had an opportunity to show that we, trained in the west so to speak, could do our thing in Thailand without upsetting the authorities.
You should understand that some of the contraventions of the regulations in little aeroplanes were carried out by pilots who flew big aeroplanes in their own country.
One was a highly respected airline training captain... He broke the regulations and charges were brought against him... These were still pending last time I was there in April.

There was an accident to the Cessna F172 F at Lamphun... The pilot was one with whom I had many arguments. He was one of four farangs in the aircraft and tried to take off with full flap selected, 35-40 deg C at 900 feet elevation.
The DCA investigated and found that all but one of the pilots flying that private aircraft were not registered to do so.
In Thailand your aircraft has a CxA, and a permit to fly that allows named pilots to fly to named airfields in Thailand. These documents take some time to get.
Everyone who flew that aeroplane after August 2007 who was not on the list was subject to a heavy fine...
I flew that aeroplane a lot before that date! Once with a senior government official
Here is a picture from that F172 when I took some people from SGA on a Scenic Flight survey:



The Thais are easy to get along with, just don't piss them off, rather bow and say khor toht excuse yourself again and again.

We flew in to Prachuap, a military airfield! The night before my ex-student had filed the flight plan with Don Mueang ATC. I didn't think this was safe, 24-48 hours notice is required...
Approaching Prachuap we were asked if we had permission... Ed said we had... I was on the point of saying "let's continue to Chumpon" when permission was granted... We were treated very well at Prachuap and all seemed well.
Since we had not had permission questions were asked of the senior person at Chiang Mai Flying Club... Oh dear trouble.
On his return flight Ed was asked to go to Prachuap and explain himself!
So we loaded a couple of bottles of whiskey on board the Tecnam as a peace offering... The net result was everyone had a brilliant party at Prachuap and Ed was welcome any time he wanted to drop in on his way down to Phuket!
You can get on your high horse and talk down to the Thais and you will forever get no-where!
Or you can apologise to them, make a peace offering, and in a friendly way all is well with the world again.



Me, yes I had to apologise a few times, and I have had nothing but friendly relations with the Thais.

I love the place deeply. The Thais are fun people, friendly and kind. The country is beautiful, a bit of paradise.
I have flown through the mountains to Mae Hong Son doing 'mountain flying checks!'
I have flown across the country from Lamphun to Ubon via Khon Kaen, Up to Chiang Rai, down to Bangkok and as far as Phuket.
It was a lot of fun, and very interesting... But that freedom that was getting better has now been denied many through the acts of a few idiots who failed to obey the regulations, and failed to say sorry in the way the Thais do.
This time I will have to drive to Mae Hong Son, and Mae Sariang to see the people I met there when flying little aeroplanes and who will forever be friends in the Thai way.

From an airline point of view, with safety in my mind as being very important in this business... I accept the high speed taxy in the 737... OK... But Nok Air got an e-mail from me when the 737 broke off the ILS 36 into Chiang Mai, failed to hold height on the downwind for 18, turned low and early base, turned finals too low with the whole aircraft rocking in the turbulence and shear, barely managing to straighten it before actually pulling off a reasonable landing.
It was the sort of thing a student pilot might do! I could not ignore it, it was a nightmare approach that could easily have been set up properly with an additional 3 minutes or so.
Passengers were scared witless and what do they know?
I usually expect the Chedis on the finals for 18 to be below the aircraft!
So my opinion of Nok Air took a dive... In general I really like this airline.
Thai Air Asia isn't too bad, but always late.
One to Go... Forget it! I'm not getting on one of their aircraft!
Orient Thai maybe not either.
TG, Thai Airways,
If you can get a Nok Air 737-800 you'll get a British pilot

[buss]

So let me get this straight. If you suck ass and bow down oh so low all is OK with the mighty thai. F that buddy, get some goddamn self respect.
You can show respect without losing your own.

[randallg]

Where on earth does the pub close at 10??

[Invertago]

Ahhh, and the thread takes a sudden turn down an unexpected path... Welcome to Avcanada everyone

[2R]

Where on earth does the pub close at 10??

Maybe Thailand ? where all those little girls and boys in the sex tourist bars have to go to bed on early on school nights

[MichaelP]

You can show respect without losing your own.

Absolutely you can, and I am not suggesting any more than proper diplomacy requires.
It is amazing how you can take an high and mighty stance and get no-where, or you can appreciate people's sensitivities and get what you want in the end.
It is precisely the high and mighty attitude that has cost us the pleasure of being able to fly unfettered in Thailand.

Dealing with Thai sensitivities is easy after learning to deal with Canadian sensitivities

Where on earth does the pub close at 10?

Ladner BC where the sometimes heavy handed Delta police patrolled the streets to pick up any fool driving on New Year's Eve.

little girls and boys in the sex tourist bars

I thought they stayed open all night on New Years Eve, but I bow to your better knowledge, I never frequent such places myself.
Pattaya is the one place I do not like in Thailand... You do see the dross of our 'civilisation' there.

There is a huge amount more to Thailand than the media will have you believe.

Anyway, we digress.
The original topic was about the shame of a Canadian flight school that is showing the Chinese that our situation is not much better than they suffer in their own country.
In China it's pollution, ATC, and the military; and here it appears to be just plain incompetence.