Bid 08-02

[babybus]

Disco,

As Lost in Saigon said,the best thing is to call or e-mail one of the CMSC reps.I do it every time I'm unsure and they always have a very clear answer with all the associated repercussions down the road.
On a different note it's interesting to see the new 777 base in YUL....may help to cut down the number of commuters YUL-YYZ.

[PilotFlying]

If a pilot is involuntarily reduced from his position, he can bump into ANY position on his base that his seniority can hold.

So in other words, I was completely out to lunch. Thanks for clarifying this. In fact, this was my original take on the situation and reading the contract confused me even more.

Thanks for the professional translation services. Maybe one day http://www.freetranslation.com will add 'ACPA Contract' to its line of services.

Regards,

[disco]

I spoke with one of our CMSC Members and got the straight goods. Goes a little something like this:

The computer "knows" there are reductions...therefore, put in what you want. That is to say, if you want to take a pilot junior to you's bump to another airplane, up or downward, put it in your bid line where you want it. You do not select reduction only when it is upward.

The system will know that you are looking to take his bumped move simply because you have bid for it.

Not sure if this will clear anything up...but I am now clear on what to do in my case.

Talk to a CMSC guy....good advice.

[tonysoprano]

On a different note it's interesting to see the new 777 base in YUL....may help to cut down the number of commuters YUL-YYZ.

Unless the company plans new routes out of YUL, these guys are going to be very bored. Right now we only serve LHR, FRA and CDG from there. They have once again puzzled me considering some of the routes we have dropped. I give up. Politics just isn't for me.

[rudder]

On a different note it's interesting to see the new 777 base in YUL....may help to cut down the number of commuters YUL-YYZ.

Unless the company plans new routes out of YUL, these guys are going to be very bored. Right now we only serve LHR, FRA and CDG from there. They have once again puzzled me considering some of the routes we have dropped. I give up. Politics just isn't for me.

It will be YUL-YYZ-.......?

[tonysoprano]

....cuold be. never thought of that.

[Johnny767]

The 777 in Montreal, makes no sense. They have ONE route, YUL - CDG, that's it! For that matter there is not even any 767 flying out of YUL. The 767 should have been pulled from the base.

With the bids structure, it is a closed base. Only existing YUL Pilots will be able to fill the 777 positions. All those Pilots that left YUL for the 340/330 in YYZ are out of luck.

[Lost in Saigon]

If they were to pull the 767 out of YUL, it would mean lots of company paid moves, and lots of angry Quebecois.

It's much easier for the company just to put the 777 in YUL (for now).

[Johnny767]

Bad Politics..over..Good Business!

Air Canada could close the YUL Pilot base and not miss it. Funny how they didn't seem to worried, taking a run at YWG.

[tonysoprano]

Don't be surprised if we're not allowed to close that base due to the Air Canada Act. Big, no huge, political game and AC is supposed to have fair, competitive structure. Right.

[babybus]

Oh my...

It's good to feel the support of our fellow colleagues from the other bases....Red vs. blue vs. Jazz, senior vs. junior YUL vs. YYZ vs. YVR. No wonder we are where we are.....

Bad Politics..over..Good Business!

Air Canada could close the YUL Pilot base and not miss it. Funny how they didn't seem to worried, taking a run at YWG.

Go sit at YUL and count the number of departures everyday and tell me it shouldn't be a base.

The 777 in Montreal, makes no sense. They have ONE route, YUL - CDG, that's it! For that matter there is not even any 767 flying out of YUL. The 767 should have been pulled from the base.

With the bids structure, it is a closed base. Only existing YUL Pilots will be able to fill the 777 positions.
All those Pilots that left YUL for the 340/330 in YYZ are out of luck.

Guys who leave a base know very well the risks of not getting back for a long time
And YUL-FRA.

You guys are right we should only have YYZ as a base.
With friends like you who needs enemies.

By the way a YUL 777 base costs very little to do and won't do anything to hurt the bottom line of the company.

[Lost in Saigon]

I just had a look at the November and December YUL 767 pairings.

There is ONE DAILY flight to LHR and ONE WEEKLY flight to Port Au Prince. That is all.

The rest is YYZ flying done by YUL crews. They should have drasticslly cut the YUL 767 base. Now we will have the same thing but with 777's and 767's......

[tonysoprano]

No wonder we are where we are.....

...forget it. why bother.

[Lost in Saigon]

Dead Head 437 YUL 1730 YYZ 1855
Operate... 880 YYZ 2025 CDG 0950 (11:05 duty day)

Operate... 881 CDG 1130 YYZ 1410
Dead Head 418 YYZ 1600 YUL 1714 (13:14 duty day)

__________________________________________________________________

Dead Head 425 YUL 1900 YYZ 2028
Operate... 876 YYZ 2155 FRA 1150 (11:35 duty day)

Operate... 877 FRA 1700 YYZ 1955
Dead Head 428 YYZ 2100 YUL 2214 (12:44 duty day)

_________________________________________________________________

These are "typical" YUL 767 pairings. Deadhead to YYZ and hope the deadhead flight is on time.

On reserve, I have many times been called out because the YUL flight has been delayed enroute, and the YUL crew can't make the sched departure, and/or they go over duty time.

The YUL crew then gets back on the next flight to YUL, goes on make-up, and gets full paid full credit. (17:25 Credit for one evening)

[babybus]

Same for us in YUL for the 330 and 777 that DH in every day to do the LHR-FRA-CDG
I've been called out many times on the 767 to do the YUL-CDG or YUL-LHR when the inbound YYZ crew were delayed due to WX.

No wonder we are where we are.....

...forget it. why bother.

Just because you're pissed your base is loosing a whopping 13 777 fo positions and you may have to wait an extra 6 months to upgrade doesn't mean you have any more rights to that flying than any other base.
Why don't you complain that YVR crews come in to YYZ to do your GRU's and TLV's?
Were all on the same team so at least be a sport and pretent you don't only care about yourself .(too late by the way)
Our group is in a sad state of affairs.Here's hopping for 2009 and sticking together.

[tonysoprano]

Just because you're pissed your base is loosing a whopping 13 777 fo positions and you may have to wait an extra 6 months to upgrade doesn't mean you have any more rights to that flying than any other base.

Not at all. This doesn't affect me as much as you claim. I have no intention or desire to fly that airplane right now. This isn't about me. It's all about having to justify the unjustifyable at a time when the company is being hit financially.

Why don't you complain that YVR crews come in to YYZ to do your GRU's and TLV's?

I do.

Were all on the same team so at least be a sport and pretent you don't only care about yourself .(too late by the way)
Our group is in a sad state of affairs.Here's hopping for 2009 and sticking together.

Again, it's not about me. It's our company that's in a sad state of affairs (not our group) and I'm just pointing out just one of the reasons why. I think our group is doing pretty good actually, despite all we've been through. As long as I can say I enjoy going to work and making a living, there's nothing sad about that.

[Johnny767]

Count the departures out of Calgary?

[babybus]

Count the departures out of Calgary?

I agree YYC sure could be a base.

As for YUL, I agree shut it down.I look forward to coming to YYZ.
Perhaps I will come to fly the 330 or the 767 and do those great flights we never get to do.But then I'm sure you guys will complain about all those Montreal guys coming to YYZ and taking your jobs.
Is that what you want....350 mostly senior crews floodding to YYZ? Be careful what you argue for you may get your wish.

[lawndart]

On the positive side I am really happy and grateful to other pilots (in the form of reduced blocks) that I still have a job this Christmas. I hope that the bid doesn't screw up too many people's lives in the form of forced moves etc.

[Embraer190]

The YUL crew then gets back on the next flight to YUL, goes on make-up, and gets full paid full credit. (17:25 Credit for one evening)

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me...

[Jaques Strappe]

The YUL crew then gets back on the next flight to YUL, goes on make-up, and gets full paid full credit. (17:25 Credit for one evening)

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me...

Wasting money and resources is no sweet deal. Personally, if any base were to be eliminated, my vote would be for Toronto but that is not going to happen. If anyone has been on a rapidair lately they would see that half the airplane is deadheading crew. A complete waste.

[tonysoprano]

If we're going to expose ourselves and our operations on a forum, let's at least try and be accurate with the info. YYZ is where most of the flying is done. It would seem normal then to have the greatest number of employees based there. That doesn't mean they live there. Most of the crews you see on Rapidairs are NOT DH crews, JS, but rather commuting crews. If you want to reduce the (small) number of DH then I suggest we have bases everywhere. Right. DH is unavoidable in a hub and spoke system. It's the cost of doing business. But let's not exagerate. Half the airplane? I've been a commuter for about fifteen years and I can tell you that's not the case. Toronto and Montreal are two bases that are required, no doubt. The only thing I question is putting equipment at a base only for the sake of optics. But then again, we are not the experts. As pilots we don't know and really are not qualified to critisize what they do. This company has been praised as a leader amonst Legacy carriers in N. America for it's cost cutting and marketing initiatives. If nothing else, let's at least give them that much.