niss wrote:sky's the limit wrote:
Last time I checked, the Israelis elected their government. So yes. Are you trying to tell me the 300 lives lost yesterday were justifiable in response to Hamas??? Can you even see the hypocrisy in your statement?
I think it was exactly what hamas deserved. Hamas was elected by the palestinians remember? They took over gaza in a bloody coup and are the de facto government of the gazans. They were warned to stop but they didn't, now they suffer the reprocussions.
15 out of almost 300 were civilians, the rest were hamas militants and policeman. I think Israel did a very good job at keeping civilian casualties down and this is exactly what they deserved.
. wrote: 230 people who where going about there daily lives with family, people who might never think to pick up a weapon just trying to get by like you or I are dead.
Rethink this one, the great majority of the dead are Hamas members, militants and policeman. Their daily lives consisted of arranging attacks against Israel. The IAF did a great job of keeping the civilian casualties low on this one.
Even Abu Mazen is saying that Hamas could have easily stopped this from happening.
Niss,
I'm on the West Coast, you get a 3hr head start.
You are trying to say that this action by the Israelis Army and Air Force is justified, and proportional - it is neither.
What I was trying to say above, is that nobody's life is "worth" more than another, not Israeli, not Palestinian, not Canadian. The extreme violence inflicted on the Occupied Territories in past few decades is wrong on every level.
The people of Israel elected a government, and it looks like they are getting ready to elect Benjamin Netanyahu again - one of the more brutal of the Israeli leaders when it come to handling the Palestinians. So yes, they are responsible for the actions of the this government, and the next one.
The Palestinians manage a somewhat democratic election last time, unfortunately for the Israelis and the US, they elected the "wrong" people. Both categorically refused to talk to them, further marginalizing the Palestinian cause, and eliminating meaningful dialogue of any kind. A pattern that has existed for decades now, and I just witnessed it in person in Afghanistan. It is one part of the game we play to ensure we get our way and look somewhat justified to each other in doing it.
Yes, the Palestinians too are responsible for the actions of those they put in power - but that said, I won't even get into the myriad of differences between these two "democracies" as it would take more time than I have, but suffice it to say, they are not exactly operating on the same level. There is plenty to read if you wish to further expand on the issues of the Palestinian Authority and their control and representation of the people they purport to govern.
So, given that people's lives are ALL worth the same, and that in a reasonable "democracy" we are responsible for our leaders actions, the people of Israel are burdened with significantly more responsibility than the Palestinians - 20 dead from Hamas rockets in EIGHT YEARS.... versus the tens of thousands slaughtered by the Israelis, and the millions subjected to humanitarian crisis after humanitarian crisis. I'm not sure if you've seen mass suffering in person, but I have and it's shocking beyond words.
The actions of Israel cannot be acceptable in a modern world. They serve nobody but the Israelis, and they are a direct impediment to progress in this issue. Pull back to 1967 lines, remove the remaining "settlements" from the West Bank and Golan, and give the Palestinians what almost everyone who studies the issue says they should have - a State. Just like they got one in 1947. When will people grasp the fact that oppression and suffering are NOT a way to move forward? We've been doing this for millennia, it doesn't work.
Do I think Israel should suffer? No. But they can no longer be allowed these types of policies in response aggression which stems from a situation they have created, the world has to say "no" for a change. Were this any other State, there would be significant consequences, but it is Israel, and they seem to have a blank cheque when it comes to violating UN resolutions, or international law. It's just not good enough anymore.
Also, make no mistake - there are massive civilian casualties as a result of this action. The press is incredibly biased about what they print, how they print it, when they print it, and most importantly, what language they use while reporting it. None of that bias slants to the Palestinians, it's in support of Israel.
I need a coffee.
stl
cause that is what these Hamas militants are, just like you STL can I be a moderator now? 
Are you guys really this simple? No wonder we are where we are, somehow I shouldn't be overly surprised...
-like when I was six fighting with my brother under the tree for his fire truck 
