Air Canada Ordered to Pay Dr. For Mid-Air Consult

[SAR_YQQ]

Wow, that's a bit of a shock. My grandfather (WWII pilot) was flying Westjet back from Florida to Toronto and died of a heart attack on the flight home.

My condolences to your family - at least he went out airborne, a noble exit for one of our profession,

Exactly why I try to fly Westjet whenever possible.

You do realize that the effort demonstrated on the ground had nothing to do with the airline, more-over the standard response by EMS.

[yeah yeah]

Anyone care to guess the cost of diverting, say, to Iceland? Fuel, landing fees, missed connections, fresh crew? Anyone want to take a stab at a figure?

[Kilo-Kilo]

I can't even get a tetra-pack of Five Alive for my six year old son through security, so how the hell does somebody get suringes and vials of valium through without credentials?

Maybe a little off-topic, but still...

[RyanF]

Wow, that's a bit of a shock. My grandfather (WWII pilot) was flying Westjet back from Florida to Toronto and died of a heart attack on the flight home.

My condolences to your family - at least he went out airborne, a noble exit for one of our profession,

Exactly why I try to fly Westjet whenever possible.

You do realize that the effort demonstrated on the ground had nothing to do with the airline, more-over the standard response by EMS.

True, but they didn't have to send our family flowers and a written letter from the Captain.

[C-FABH]

how the hell does somebody get suringes and vials of valium through without credentials?

Maybe a little off-topic, but still...

On-board medical kit.

Anyone care to guess the cost of diverting, say, to Iceland? Fuel, landing fees, missed connections, fresh crew? Anyone want to take a stab at a figure?

Not as much as you'd think. Depends if it's medical or mechanical. Insurance companies are now offering coverage for diversions, too - if you can pay the premiums.

[niss]

If it was not life and death and it was basically a medical nuisance call I think the Dr. deserves some compensation for his work.

At the very least refund the $ for his ticket.

[ex-NWT]

the average cost for us (777) is a little over $30 000 per diversion

A couple of years ago my brother helped out on a flight with a serious medical problem and got the rest of the flight in business and 2 tickets first class anywhere (within A/C's routes)

[YoungPunk]

If it was not life and death and it was basically a medical nuisance call I think the Dr. deserves some compensation for his work.

At the very least refund the $ for his ticket.

I agree with this. If it was life or death the doc should have done everything for nothing. That being said, AC still should have compensated him for trying to help. If it was not really a life or death thing then AC definitely should have compensated him (Or not bothered him).

However, a class act would not have sued AC if they had decided to not give him any compensation. Personally I would have been happy to help out a passenger that needed some help, life or death or not. But that's just me.

[Wilbur]

Well, I think the fact a judge awarded him a whopping $1k speaks volumes about the validity of his claim.

Jesus C, this guy expecting to be compensated for helping someone out rates right up there....with I don't know what. What would compare? An off duty paramedic demanding to be paid for helping someone? An off duty fire fighter who happens to be the first passerby of a buiding on fire, rescues someone and then demands money? A mechanic who stops to help someone with car trouble along a lonely stretch of highway, but only if they have a credit card? A boy scout who demands payment for helping an old lady cross the street.

So he saved the airline the cost of a diversion, big deal. How loud would he be bitching if they hadn't called for a doctor, did the diversion, and got him to destination many hours late? My bet is he'd be suing for that too.

[niss]

Watch the video,

He helped with 2 ill passengers, then was woken up again to treat someone with a mild panick attack and they didn't trust the french Doctor to help.

He claims he felt exploited, etc. None of us were there. Yeah it makes him sound like a dick, but how would you react if you were on your vacation, trying to get some shut eye, you get woken up to help some really ill passengers, go back to your seat and then get called up again for something like that.

You woke me up for this?!?!?

Who knows what else was said to him. And AC tries to screw him by throwing the 'you are legally obligated to help' card?

Did the CS agent also wipe their ass with the domestic ticket when they handed it to him?

He also says in the video he is not keeping the money as it wasn't about that and is donating it to a hospital.

He is a Doctor. Even though it is his job to help/save people, maybe we should still be thankful? Maybe we shouldn't look at everything like it is our god given right to be healthy and Doctors are their to make it so.

When did people stop respecting doctors as life givers?

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

That doctor is petty and small-minded.

It would've shown more class if AC had offered him something more. It would've shown even more class if he would have turned it down or minimized the offer.

At the risk of sounding all gushy, he is a member of the human race like the rest of us. He's not a class unto himself. if he received his training in Canada that means about 80% of the cost was paid for by taxpayers. I doubt it occurred to him to donate the $1000 to the university that trained him as a sign of "respect" to the sacrifice of many who contributed to his livelihood. (yes, I see he donated it to a hospital. I'm curious to know how long before the interview that decision was made)

. . . A mechanic who stops to help someone with car trouble along a lonely stretch of highway, but only if they have a credit card?

As a matter of fact, a while back I stopped to help a woman in a shitty old Tempo who couldn't get it started. She had a young boy, about six, in the car. It was quite cold, probably -20. I could've just left her. After all, there was a bar open right in front of where she parked and a pay phone a half block away. But, I didn't. I "disrespected" myself enough to get her on her way home. It never even occurred to me to demand payment and I wouldn't have accepted if offered.

I only lost 15 minutes sleep as I had to be at work the next day. I didn't lose a couple of hours like the doctor. If Dr. Ego thinks a couple hours lost is a big deal, I'll take him to work for a shift for 'show and tell'! Better yet, maybe the Air Canada mechanics working overnight should. He might appreciate his safe flight more.

[kevind]

Why did Air Canada have to pay and not the people recieving treatment?

If I am in McDonalds and have a heart attack, does McDonalds pay my medical bills if they look for a Dr in the place?

[hoghead]

I think Air Canada usually has medlink if satcom is available. Most companies that use medlink are usually bound by their FOM to consult them first, then the assistance of a medical professional as long as they can prove their credentials. Most FOM's state that when handling medical cases the PIC will ensure that the prime consideration must be for the well being of the passenger and everything possible must be done to ensure that the best possible medical treatment is speedily provided.

If the crew were not able to verify the French Doctors credentials, then they would have to go to the other Doctor who had proven credentials.

An anxiety attack can appear to be a heart attack, stroke or some kind of seizure. The crew did the right thing by getting the doc to look at that person.
If it was a serious condition how would the crew explain the reason that pax suffered was that they didnt want to bother the doctor?

He's a prick, the crew followed their sop's an the AC lawyers are below average for losing this case.

[cyxe]

As a matter of fact, a while back I stopped to help a woman in a shitty old Tempo who couldn't get it started. She had a young boy, about six, in the car. It was quite cold, probably -20. I could've just left her. After all, there was a bar open right in front of where she parked and a pay phone a half block away. But, I didn't. I "disrespected" myself enough to get her on her way home. It never even occurred to me to demand payment and I wouldn't have accepted if offered.

I only lost 15 minutes sleep as I had to be at work the next day. I didn't lose a couple of hours like the doctor. If Dr. Ego thinks a couple hours lost is a big deal, I'll take him to work for a shift for 'show and tell'! Better yet, maybe the Air Canada mechanics working overnight should. He might appreciate his safe flight more.

That's a great story (I'm sure we all have a similar one) but not a great analogy.

A more relevant analogy would be: the person you helped gives out your cell phone number to other people on the side of the road, and they call you directly asking for help (and yes I realize thats a ridiculous scenario - but my point is your analogy of volunteering aid on the side of the road once on your own volition is not like what happened in this case).

Having said that I still think he shouldn't have sued nor asked for money. I understand his point but still don't agree with it...still makes him look like a tool.

[C-FABH]

Did the CS agent also wipe their ass with the domestic ticket when they handed it to him?

Well, they did send him a thank you letter and offered him 10,000 Aeroplan points.

My understanding that isn't a hell of a lot, but still, I wouldn't mind getting paid $1,000 over a nuisance.

[shannon]

Just curious, answering honestly, if it had been a nurse that had helped out would all those who side with the doctor feel the same way about the bill?
Just asking?

[Wilbur]

Donating the $1k is an after the fact effort at reputation damage control. He originally wanted a couple first class tickets for his personal use.

When someone needs help and you have the skills to help, you should help. Getting hit on to provide this type of help goes with the turf. Doctors get asked to help with medical issues. Cops get asked by frightened neighbours to check out noises in the the night, etc, etc, etc.

Society accords doctors special standing in society, and this is one way members of the profession pay for that status. If you want to know how it works, try this next time you can't get a resturaunt or tee time reservation. After you get turned down, call back in 30 minutes and introduce yourself as Dr. ...., from .... General Hospital, and declare you need a reservation for yourself and three collegues. 99% of the time you'll get what you want.

[niss]

Donating the $1k is an after the fact effort at reputation damage control. He originally wanted a couple first class tickets for his personal use.

When someone needs help and you have the skills to help, you should help. Getting hit on to provide this type of help goes with the turf. Doctors get asked to help with medical issues. Cops get asked by frightened neighbours to check out noises in the the night, etc, etc, etc.

Society accords doctors special standing in society, and this is one way members of the profession pay for that status. If you want to know how it works, try this next time you can't get a resturaunt or tee time reservation. After you get turned down, call back in 30 minutes and introduce yourself as Dr. ...., from .... General Hospital, and declare you need a reservation for yourself and three collegues. 99% of the time you'll get what you want.

So because of his chosen profession he should be expected to set up a free clinic while on his vacation to take care of tummy aches and the sniffles?

[Conquest Driver]

A couple of years ago my brother helped out on a flight with a serious medical problem and got the rest of the flight in business and 2 tickets first class anywhere (within A/C's routes)

That sounds about fair. If A/C had done that in the beginning, I don't think this would have ever make it to the news.

However, I can't even begin to count the number of complaints on this board about Pilots offering to work for free. So, why should we expect a Physician to?? As far as I'm concerned he had an obligation to provide medical assistance and A/C had an obligation to pay him a reasonable fee for doing it.

[shannon]

The complaints about pilots offering to work for free have an entirely different context.

As I understand it, the Air Canada staff that work the Dreams Take Flight for underprivileged kids do so on their own time. Should they instead charge?

If there was an emergency flight out needed from an isolated community for a injured person and there was no service available, would you not offer your time? would you send them a bill? Even if it would save a life? If they couldn't pay would you refuse to fly them?

[xsbank]

I think he was justified in charging. If Air Canada had offered a better 'thank you' he would have been happy. For what he paid for his ticket, he should have had the ticket cost refunded.

Maybe the airlines should hire someone with medical training for all long-haul flights? What's the difference?

[Wilbur]

Are airlines under any legal or moral obligation to provide medical services beyond basic first aid? I don't think anymore so then Greyhound, BC Ferries, Via Rail, or any other business offering a service that takes you some distance away from medical aid. When you get on an airliner, you do so in the knowledge that if you have a medical emergency you probably won't be getting any significant level of help for some time. Therefore, I don't think this is such a complicated issue. It's really nothing more complicated then one person helping another because they have he skills to help.

What should a Dr. do if, lets say, they are back country heli-skiing and someone in their party is injured or has a medical emergency? Should they offer to help, or should they declare, "I'm on vacation and I'm not helping unless I get paid?" What should a paramedic, fire fighter, or someone else with another high level first aid qual do?

[Liquid Charlie]

Since the airlines provide a medical box that can only be accessed by a medical professional I do believe it does make it a little more complicated than someone helping on the side of the road or in the back country. It's obvious airlines expect a doctor or medical professional to treat a patient simply from the fact they supply the tools -- the airlines also take responsibility for that treatment from a liability point of view. There lies the difference --

[CD]

Just as an aside, the airlines provide a "medical box" because ICAO says that member States shall have regulations that require airlines to provide it.

I figure that if a majority of folks believe that the airline should be responsible to pay the physician, then it is only fair if the airline pass that fee along to the passenger the next time they decide to travel since the physician treated them. Alternatively, assess a surcharge to all tickets (like the fuel surcharge) to be able to provide the physician with their standard rate. That seems quite reasonable and it appears that there are many folks here that would gladly pay the surcharge per ticket...

[Dash-Ate]

The guy should have gotten a refund of his tickets and a small token. Who wants to ruin their vacation by having to work for most of the flight??