2 years is nothing... what will it feel like after 5, 7, or 10 years?KAG wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to that upgrade (been here just over 2 years, half way up the FO list) it's just that not having that 4th stripe isn't keeping me awake at night.
Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Things can change quickly. Just saw Boeing is expecting first delivery of the Dreamliner by Q4 of 2010. Might help out the pilot list if we get a few of those.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
why don't you ask in 5,7 or 10 years down the road ? Nobody can make predictions like that . Bah....Spit-IX wrote:2 years is nothing... what will it feel like after 5, 7, or 10 years?KAG wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to that upgrade (been here just over 2 years, half way up the FO list) it's just that not having that 4th stripe isn't keeping me awake at night.
everybody is different anyways and life changes on a daily basis. Friend of mine just found out he has pancreatic cancer. Got about 6 month to live, do you think he really cares about an upgrade now ?
Why do people not just enjoy the moment they are in instead of either living in the past or trying to live in the future?
I enjoy every flight in the starship . Do i stare at the left seat every time i get in the plane ? NO . For all i know i might slip in the shower at the hotel and never get to do another flight anyways. Making long range predictions is so typically Human... But honestly ? NOBODY knows what will be in 2 years 5 years or even in 2 minutes ......
ENJOY the Moment.... . and why worry about what other people might feel in 5 years anyways , if you worry about yourself like that i suggest you pick up a book called the power of now .......if you worry about other people and their feelings in 5 years maybe you should have been a shrink.... but then maybe you are , i don't know LOL .
Just eveyrbody RELAX, because really NOBODY knows what the future brings , and thoughts of the past are usually jaded in either a good way or a bad way , thats just the way the human mind works....
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
When I was at Jazz I thought a lot more of getting into the left seat, mainly because it's hard to make a livable wage as an FO there living in a major city. It’s frustrating as hell, believe me I know.Spit-IX wrote:2 years is nothing... what will it feel like after 5, 7, or 10 years?KAG wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to that upgrade (been here just over 2 years, half way up the FO list) it's just that not having that 4th stripe isn't keeping me awake at night.
When I went to WJ, I was under the assumption that I'd be a very long in the right seat, I honestly thought 10 years plus, but in 2 short years I'm half way there (2 years, 20ish tails to give you an idea of the movement). Lots can happen until that day, and yes I'm sure at some point I'm going to get antsy about it, but I think going into a new job with the single minded focus of attaining those 4 stripes is a great way to stress yourself out.
For me, my priority is lifestyle and I now have it, I’m content. I’ll admit though that the idea of setting the tone of the pairing and not having to be the chameleon is very appealing, but as an FO I can honestly say it’s a great place to work, I consider myself fortunate.
All in good time, please pass the Kool-Aid

The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Eloquently expressed goaround. Sage advise.
Dave.
Dave.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
As long as you have a smile on your face when you show up in the crew room, all is good. Fortunately, I was never a F/O for very long so my perspective is a little different on this subject.KAG wrote:For me, my priority is lifestyle and I now have it, I’m content. I’ll admit though that the idea of setting the tone of the pairing and not having to be the chameleon is very appealing, but as an FO I can honestly say it’s a great place to work, I consider myself fortunate.
@goaroundthrust unless you got into this career to be a F/O you will always be looking at the left seat regardless of your belief on living only in the now and not thinking about the future.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
I can understand chasing the left seat when you need PIC for the next job, a pay cheque above $25,000 or an ATPL. At this stage I look at it from the perspective that I will be making a decent salary at a great company and the job chasing is over. I got a late start, definitely later than most, so if I stay healthy and am at WestJet for even 20-25 more years whether its 5 or 10 years for an upgrade I'll have something to look work toward and still be in the left seat of an airliner for more than half my career. (although the POH calls the 1900 an airliner too....)
If I make enough to look after the family and love going to work everyday what's the rush - besides for all the single guys, most girls don't know the difference between 3 and 4 bars....
If I make enough to look after the family and love going to work everyday what's the rush - besides for all the single guys, most girls don't know the difference between 3 and 4 bars....

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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Spit-IX wrote:As long as you have a smile on your face when you show up in the crew room, all is good. Fortunately, I was never a F/O for very long so my perspective is a little different on this subject.KAG wrote:For me, my priority is lifestyle and I now have it, I’m content. I’ll admit though that the idea of setting the tone of the pairing and not having to be the chameleon is very appealing, but as an FO I can honestly say it’s a great place to work, I consider myself fortunate.
@goaroundthrust unless you got into this career to be a F/O you will always be looking at the left seat regardless of your belief on living only in the now and not thinking about the future.
guess we are 2 different people with 2 different outlooks. that's what makes this world such a beautiful place. Like i always say . There is not enough characters in this world...
I find it interesting how you seem to force your believes onto other people and seem to know so much about what they want or why they got into aviation etc..., yet you know so little about how to live life.... you have to remember you are looking at it YOUR way , but your way does not have to be their way.
If you can not understand that, i can suggest a few more good books for you.....
I got into aviation because the love of flying. I have been a captain for a few years then FO again in a 3 man crew before i joined westjet. I just really enjoy my job and don't burden myself with small thoughts anymore. why is that so hard to understand?
I would love to explain this more , but i am going out to enjoy a coffee ,take my 7 month old for a walk and be thankful that a hand of great people decided to hire me ( including DaveP) and give me a chance of a great life , right seat left seat or whatever...... it really does not matter to me .. i am sorry that seems so strange or so hard to understand ....
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Am I interpreting this correctly? The original scheduled deliveries by 2013 were to bring the total fleet size to 121. The new delivery schedule has (with the option on not renewing any a/c leases) only growing to 112 by 2016? That's taking an additional 3 years to grow by 9 less a/c than originally planned (potentially)?
I could care less which seat I sit in but without a Years of Service pay schedule it would sure be nice to get onto the Captain pay ladder sooner rather than later.
I could care less which seat I sit in but without a Years of Service pay schedule it would sure be nice to get onto the Captain pay ladder sooner rather than later.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Sorry but if you feel I am forcing my beliefs on anyone then you have misunderstood me. Of course it's my opinion but based on experience in this industry. In my short time on this board I have to wonder why some of the WJ crowd get so defensive? You get on me for giving my opinion then tell me I don't know how to enjoy life. Maybe you should find some special books to read yourself?goaroundthrust wrote: I find it interesting how you seem to force your believes onto other people and seem to know so much about what they want or why they got into aviation etc..., yet you know so little about how to live life.... you have to remember you are looking at it YOUR way , but your way does not have to be their way.
Please, enjoy your years as a F/O!
Last edited by Spit-IX on Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Or it could go as high as 135 by 2016. That could mean more upgrades than the old fleet plan allowed for.
Bottom line...we have the flexibility to roll with the punches as far as the economy goes and I think this is a good thing.
Bottom line...we have the flexibility to roll with the punches as far as the economy goes and I think this is a good thing.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
I think WJ is being smart about this. They are doing what makes sense for the company and management should be applauded for having the sense and the vision to revise the growth plan. As for pilot career expectations, I don't think management gets too concerned about that. In my view, with the existing fleet growth plus retirements, there's still plenty of room for upgrades and with such a young group of pilots, the left seat will come in due time anyway.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
So I log on a notice a post from my arch nemesis Tonysoprano....
I think this ought to be good.... hopefully he's on a few days off so we can go at it a bit.
..... and he gives me nothing but positive remarks.
I feel cheated.
I think this ought to be good.... hopefully he's on a few days off so we can go at it a bit.
..... and he gives me nothing but positive remarks.
I feel cheated.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Hey!! Where's my wine?? 

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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Please, enjoy your years as a F/O![/quote]
Thank you , i am , and actually will enjoy myself . There is no such thing as a "time frame" in aviation or in life as a matter of fact..... as i have learned on a few prior occasions that were not even related to aviation. One year, two days, five month all the same to me really .....
In the meantime i make some great money, work with great people and enjoy my time on this earth....
I am just wondering why are you so interested in making predictions for a company and their future if you do not even work there ?
By the way i picked up another great book "The joy of Living" by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche. Great read indeed....
Have a great day and I hope a great flight as well where ever it might take you. ......
Thank you , i am , and actually will enjoy myself . There is no such thing as a "time frame" in aviation or in life as a matter of fact..... as i have learned on a few prior occasions that were not even related to aviation. One year, two days, five month all the same to me really .....
In the meantime i make some great money, work with great people and enjoy my time on this earth....
I am just wondering why are you so interested in making predictions for a company and their future if you do not even work there ?
By the way i picked up another great book "The joy of Living" by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche. Great read indeed....
Have a great day and I hope a great flight as well where ever it might take you. ......
Last edited by goaroundthrust on Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Nice positive comment TonyS, its nice to see.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
As of today pilots don't have a retirement age in Canada. As long as they can hold a medical and pass a ride they have every right to stay working for as long as they want.DaveP wrote:
There are a lot of variables to consider here too.
My numbers for retirements only go up from here on.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
hmm has anyone informed the Americans yet? 

I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Apparently the CHRT says what happens outside of our boarders is of no concern. AC's request for an exemption based on a bona fide operational requirement (flying outside Canadian boarders) rejected . IOW give them a totally domestic block if required.
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Brick Head wrote:As of today pilots don't have a retirement age in Canada. As long as they can hold a medical and pass a ride they have every right to stay working for as long as they want.DaveP wrote:
There are a lot of variables to consider here too.
My numbers for retirements only go up from here on.
I'd be crazy if I would want to keep working past 65.
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
The only reason I look over at the left seat is to make sure the guy or girl that earned it is actually breathing and enjoying it! Most of the time there's a lot of breathing going on, but only between sentences of a long winded character that may or may not be so enjoyable...
I get in to my right seat feeling like a kid on christmas-eve every time. I know from the past that that feeling will somewhat disappear once I am in the left seat, so I am enjoying every bit of my seat for now. With money comes a lot of work, and the longer I sit where I am the more poised I will be for reality when or if it should happen.
The hours don't count no more, the money will only get better but they are already good so what's the rush???
I have a job that is as good as my life. That's what counts!

I get in to my right seat feeling like a kid on christmas-eve every time. I know from the past that that feeling will somewhat disappear once I am in the left seat, so I am enjoying every bit of my seat for now. With money comes a lot of work, and the longer I sit where I am the more poised I will be for reality when or if it should happen.
The hours don't count no more, the money will only get better but they are already good so what's the rush???
I have a job that is as good as my life. That's what counts!
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
All I can say is I spent 6 years in a factory (out of High-school) before finally doing my flight training, going to College, and then landing my first flying job (with many construction gigs along the way).
I feel absolutely blessed to be sitting in the right seat of an RJ!
I feel absolutely blessed to be sitting in the right seat of an RJ!
Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
brick head are you serious? is that for commercial pilots also?
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Flying Nutcracker wrote:The only reason I look over at the left seat is to make sure the guy or girl that earned it is actually breathing and enjoying it! Most of the time there's a lot of breathing going on, but only between sentences of a long winded character that may or may not be so enjoyable...![]()
I get in to my right seat feeling like a kid on christmas-eve every time. I know from the past that that feeling will somewhat disappear once I am in the left seat, so I am enjoying every bit of my seat for now. With money comes a lot of work, and the longer I sit where I am the more poised I will be for reality when or if it should happen.
The hours don't count no more, the money will only get better but they are already good so what's the rush???
I have a job that is as good as my life. That's what counts!
right on brother....
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Re: Westjet changes delivery schedule, and adds to order
Unfortunately yes. Age discrimination has always been against the law under the charter of rights and freedoms. There has always been an exception allowing mandatory retirement though since the CHA's inception.CAL wrote:brick head are you serious? is that for commercial pilots also?
Mandatory retirement is permitted as long as it is normal for the industry and everyone is treated the same.
As of two days ago that exception has been declared void. Discriminatory. Two former AC pilots challenged and won. Air Canada now has a cease and desist order to stop mandatory retirement all together.
What this means is that the law just changed. Mandatory retirement is no longer legal for federally regulated companies. Actually many provincial jurisdictions have already gone this route and removed the exemption.
We will now have to see if there is an appeal.
As of right now though it is the law of the land