CMA: Congratulations and apologies.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:23 am

Wha? Name calling and insults? Here on an anonymous internet forum? What have I done? Told my former employer I will not do ______ task for my monthly pittance. Ended up getting an extra month's pay for 8 hours work. Helped me and hopefully the next dude behind me. Told my former employer EXACTLY what the airplane I was flying could carry when told I left "a little light". Walked away and never heard about it again. Helped me and hopefully the dude behind me. What did you say you had done again? Since you are so quick to judge (so harshly and critically I might add) I can only assume you have bettered the industry standard?

eep...2 Green · Post by **eep...2 Green** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:44 am

Listen, you bumping cargo when over weight is not a way to better pilots working conditions. You telling your employer what your job is worth is a risk, and if you have actually done this good for you. It is good for you if you can keep your job, and good for the next guy who gets a chance if you get fired. If he kept you on you must have something to offer. This special thing you bring to the company must mean something to you too if you can recognise it (which you seem to). Do you think this is as far as you can go with it? Some people might consider making sacrifices to try to develop this special pilot characteristic. Nevertheless you mention name calling...read your previous posts, stupid. You do seem to think that your past actions made a difference...hey, you are criticising the company you used to work for - didn't make much of a difference there. You are quite clear that had you stayed at said company you would have been a 328 captain. Why do you feel like you need to tell everyone that in an "anonymous internet forum"? I think you belittle the actions of whistle blowers by claiming that you have done much to better the cause.

gonnabeapilot · Post by **gonnabeapilot** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:48 am

For those interested, this is a photo of the new Dornier that CMA picked up. They have kept the same paintscheme and have simply removed the MTM Aviation titles and changed over the registration. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/387773/M

eep...2 Green · Post by **eep...2 Green** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:48 am

I wish we all got paid more. That would be nice.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:51 am

People will take jobs for different reasons. People work for companies that require bonds, contracts...hey...some companies require very high experience levels to fly small slow airplanes. Some companies don't even pay crewmembers. Everyone takes a job for a reason, and it may not be the same reason as you would

So now you want me to save the whores, errr, pardon me, the pilots that are willing to pay for the privelidge of flying a jet from themselves? I'm not JC dude. Good luck with your cause.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:56 am

You are quite clear that had you stayed at said company you would have been a 328 captain.

Nowhere did I ever say I WOULD be a Dornier Captain. Please reread the post. I said I COULD be. HUGE difference. The question is would I allow myself to be treated so poorly for the opportunity. Have you brought the wages up for us working stiffs yet?

eep...2 Green · Post by **eep...2 Green** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:57 am

I don't have a cause DUDE. And I don't know what JC is. Jesus Christ? I Don't know, I'm a Hindu. I'm on your side young fella, you and I both want to get paid what we are worth. Who doesn't? Why are you so bitter about CMAs 328's? That's what I think readers will be interested in.

. . · Post by **. .** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:52 am

I think people are upset because CMA has an aircraft which should have a payscale topping out somewhere in the ballpark of 100k/yr. That type of salary could make it a job worth sticking it out until retirement. They've bastardized it into another stepping stone onto somewhere else. Why should the CMA guys flying the same plane out of the same city as the shell guys make half the money?

eep...2 Green · Post by **eep...2 Green** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:10 am

I know you know, because you couldn't operate a computer if you didn't know...but I'll say it just because I'm still awake. Shell sells hydrocarbons, they make a lot of money doing this. CMA sells tickets on airplanes to anybody, and they don't have to pay 100k.

Guys, honestly I don't really care too much about this issue. I'm happy CMA has dorniers and is generating more business. I really just wanted to shocase my Stormtrooper.

DragEraser · Post by **DragEraser** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:06 am

A good lifestyle??? A bit easier job than most, but living 5 pilots per household doesn't sound like a good lifestyle to me.

Its not just CMA out west that pays poorly either.

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:37 am

From the CMA Web Site:

Pilot Requirements

Minimum Requirements for First Officer are:

1) Commercial Multi IFR Licence.
2) IATRA Exam - This is a Transport Canada exam which can be taken after 250 hours.
3) Minimum 500 hours.

Once you have met the above requirements, you are welcome to forward your resume. It will be reviewed, and placed on file for six months.

As a rule, First Officers from within the company are upgraded to Captain's position.

Captains Requirements are:

1) 3,000 hours minimum.
2) 1,000 hours Pilot in Command.
3) 1,000 hours Multi IFR.
4) 500 minimum hours mountain experience.

zaac · Post by **zaac** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:44 am

What do the mean by 1,000 hours Multi IFR.

All I have been logging is actual IFR.

How could you have 1000 hours ifr and only 3000 hours total time.

Are you guys logging ifr just because you're on an ifr flight plan?

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:56 am

Hmmm, 500 mountain.

So now mountain flying experience consists of an f/o's seat in a 1900 at FL240 on an IFR flight plan??? WTF? Wouldn't know a mountian if they hit it.

CMA is a joke, something broke there a few yers ago, not what they used to be, now they're no better than all the other low paying, bond signing outfits scattered around the country.

Who cares what they fly if they don't pay. If they offered 22K for an f/o
seat on a shiney new 737, I'd bet half you guys would be running over eachother to sign up. I guess West Jet already has that market cornered though. When will fixed-wing pilots earn some self respect?

. . · Post by **. .** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:17 pm

So your argument is pay should be based on a companies profitability? So why wasn't westjet paying ther 737 guys more than AC, surely they were more profitable. If you can't come up with a viable business plan which rewards your employees for quality time served then I would say that your plan isn't viable.

Many companies are so short sighted. How much does it cost to train a guy on the 328? Quite a pretty penny I'd imagine. So if you can keep those guys happy and prevent that aircraft from being a stepping stone your long term training costs would go down. Why is that impossible to see for some people?

I find it crazy that so many people come to the defence of poorly paying companies too. I can't see why anyone would become the defender of poor pay across canada. Why not simply say "yes the pay leaves much to be desired, however i needed the job and I'm happy now that I'm here". For gods sake, there's no need to crap all over people for stating the obvious. I love all the "supply and demand" stuff. Thanks I would have never figured that out if people didn't mention it every few days. Who knew that an oversupply of qualified pilots might drive down wages?

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:47 pm

I'm not suprised to hear the whining, CMA is not what it used to be, since LC took over the show he's changed everything, ask anyone who has moved on from there, they can tell you about the goodtimes, but for the ones there now, they all (except a few dumbies) are eager to do the time and get out! LC and managment treat everyone there like crap, he's arrogant, controling and greedy. I didn't like him the first time I flew with him and glad I moved on before he moved up. You can look back at his days at Air New Zealand to see what type of character he is, if you don't know what I mean, ask someone at CMA thats been there for a while. They can tell you how he fled to Canada. Lifestyle? I take it you don't drive for CMA

gonnabeapilot · Post by **gonnabeapilot** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:06 pm

Say what you'd like about the management team but I think the recent changes at CMA have more to do with the bankruptcy at Air Canada and the loss of 10 airplanes worth of flying than the diabolical scheming of evil management types. Did times use to be better? Yes. Did the money use to flow freely from big red so that the company could afford to spend lavishly on its employees? Yes. Times have changed at Air Canada and as a direct result time have changed at CMA.

As far as lifestyle goes, I'm interested to hear where the rest of you are working. As I said before, I make the same paycheck as my friends who are working north of 60 and in northern ontario. However I don't have to deal with half the crap they do. They're loading the planes, grooming, flight planning, spending nights in hunting camps in the middle of nowhere and running ridiculous errands for the boss. I just show up and fly. Would I like to make more? Yes. But do I think I'm fortunate to be living closer to the 49th parallel than the 60th and working at a job where I am being paid to simply show up and fly? You bet. Lifestyle? Yeah, I think I have it pretty good.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:09 pm

Anybody ever notice how Clive Beddoe's personal worth is in excess of $50 million most days? Can't understand how a B737 FO can be paid $40 000 while the boss is worth what he is.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:34 am

I wonder how profitable CMA could actually be if they stopped doing free maintenance on NTair's entire fleet? If this neat little arrangement to funnel profit through NT and thus keep CMA perpetually cash poor was rectified I'm sure we could all make more money. Question: does Thunderbird employ ANY of its own engineers?

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:02 pm

pika wrote:Anybody ever notice how Clive Beddoe's personal worth is in excess of $50 million most days? Can't understand how a B737 FO can be paid $40 000 while the boss is worth what he is.

Company stock options. When they were selling for pennies a share..... anyone who got in early is laughing, even the F/A's.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:41 pm

anyone who got in early is laughing, even the F/A's.

So the good times are gone and the employees are left with a promise yet again. First year FO takes home less than an EI paycheque every two weeks while the boss can afford to cut his salary to $1. The rich get richer once again.

This part added in the edit...

ps. When did WJ shares ever trade for pennies?

Trippin @350 · Post by **Trippin @350** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:07 pm

Why cry that CMA is not making any $$. Those Do aircraft were offered lease free to enable CMA to recover the $100k it invested into creating a 705 operation. Since nobody wants these airplanes the salesman even threw in initial training costs.

Enough said about the SH^T pay! Why did u losers sign a training bond! Dum F*cks who else would they be able to hire with your guys experience... as noted 1000 hrs Actual and 500 hrs Mountain time at FL240.

Sad part of all this is that those boys are locked in for some time, just when the entire industry will begin hiring. For all of us who waited, this fall should be a time when any of us can pick the job of our choice.

rrousou330 · Post by **rrousou330** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:06 pm

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!!

ANOTHER INTELLIGENT POSTING......BY VERY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE NO DOUBT!!

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:04 pm

Isn't it true that the Dornier guys are getting the same (reduced) pay the 1900 guys were

?

mrmagoo · Post by **mrmagoo** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:42 pm

Here at the airline I fly for and a whole bunch others out there, the pay is the same whether you are flying the CRJ or a Dash 8. So what else is new? Heck those guys flying the 1900 and any other of that type should get more pay than most of us out there...they have to actually fly the dang thing..no autopilot in those machines. I think most of us have forgot what its like...we got it pretty easy.
From what I gather most of the people crying the blues here just don't have a clue about the real world.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:25 am

The difference at Jazz of course is that the Dash guys are basically getting RJ pay while at CMA the Dornier is getting the same as the 1900. Slight difference!

CMA: Congratulations and apologies.

cma pay