Don't be a whore (help me respond to an email)

[Invertago]

So, basically, corruption just because they can get away with it? I've been thinking it is more along the lines of TC not knowing how to regulate the industry effectively so they just make a nuisance of themselves while trying to look busy. Then the corruption takes place when the comfy upper management has to cover their asses because the worker bees screw things up since they don't know how to do their job.

I wonder if Hanna Gartner reads avcanada while researching her stories? If so... Hi Hanna Will there be a follow up to that episode?

[Invertago]

Some people have a LOT of spare time to waste away.

And the Avcanada participation ribbon goes to.... SkySailor!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Some people have a LOT of spare time to waste away.

True, today I have lots of spare time to waste away because I was driving a rental car all over NFLD for the past ten days sight seeing and am just lounging around after all that driving.

The nice part is I can afford to do it because I had a very successful career in aviation and now that I am retired I can do what ever I want.

By the way why do you think we have so many corrupt people in TCCA SkySailor?

The least you can do is share your knowledge and thoughts with us on this very serious issue.

[SkySailor]

Congratulations on your continuing retirement, Mr. .!

First, watch out for those Newfie moose....they're freakin' big!!

Secondly, I ain't gonna get drawn into this perpetual firefight about workin' for free!!! Nice try however .

But, ..... permit to say one tiny lil' bit....

People in all walks of life are encouraged to show volunteer time on their resumes. Why can't pilot's do this? What if you won the 6/49, but were bored and just wanted to cruise around on someone else's King Air, without having to pay for it? There, I've just tossed in the avgas...light anyone? For the billionth time, shall we go at 'er again?

Geez, I've just "wasted" more time. Sigh.........

[Invertago]

Thanks for stirring the pot there Skysailor, I was afraid the shat on the bottom was going to burn


If you got a million and want to fly a king air for free, I wouldn't hire you because if you're not on the pay roll, you don't owe me a thing. Therefore, if I have a very important flight for a major client who happens to be annoying to deal with (not that there are any of those ever) you might just decide the golf course is too hard to resist instead of showing up.

That being said, the problem is entry level pilots working for free to try to get ahead not rich guys working for fun. I've never met a rich guy who has the patience to put up with flying for someone else in their clapped out king air (clapped out because any boss that hires free pilots probably also likes cheap maintenance). Your fictional rich guy in reality would be cruising around in his Piper Malibu going to Vegas, not someone else's king air flying to Ft Mac Missery.

Point of interest, we're a for profit company, we have in the past had a retired airline guy teach ground school. He probably has a cool million in the bank, but still takes a pay check out of principle even though he's doing it for fun.

[Invertago]

Geez, I've just "wasted" more time. Sigh.........

BTW, you're in the thread now, no escape

[1000 HP]

Just looking for an insightful response to this offer to work for free that arrived in my work inbox this morning. (Interestingly I've heard a lot about how you can get your CPL MIFR in the philippines for the price of a few bribes)

"Dear
Sir

My name is EDITED , i am a myanmar citizen i am currently holding a CPL IR with Multi rating from the philippines i would like to know if it is possible for me to apply for a job in your company. I am not looking for paid job i just want to get experience. I hope you can help thank you so much.


Best Regards
EDITED "

I have not yet replied to the email, but I am open to your creative avcanadian responses. Write a response, or vote for someone elses responses, the top response will be replied back tomorrow!


Grand prize for this contest is one (1) sense of self respect. Residents of Quebec are not eligible. Must be 18 years of age or older, no purchase necessary.

Just give him the honest truth. Tell him what the other pilots would think of him working for nothing. Educate him. Tell him that in Canada, it is illegal to pay less than minimum wage, and sad to pay pilots that. It's what a reasonable and respectable Chief Pilot would do.

[The Prof]

I would like to throw my two cents into the mix:

I am a recent college graduate of an aviation diploma course in Ontario, finished with my Multi/IFR Commercial license. I’ve read a lot of complaints online about pilots working for free, and I agree fully that it is bad for the industry. However, out of the several students who graduated along with me this year, only myself and one other student acquired flying positions for the summer. Mine unfortunately was a volunteer position at a local skydive facility. I took the position because A) it was within a relatively short distance of my present location, and B) I would be flying for the summer. I couldn’t find flying work anywhere else in Canada by the time I acquired all my ratings. (Which was around June). I accumulated 150 hours flying a C182 in all types of VFR weather, out of a grass strip, and feel as though I am a better pilot for it.

Do I hate the fact that I worked for free? Yes, but would I do it again, Maybe. The problem isn’t the fact that there are pilots working for free, the pilots just want to get their career started in the industry that they’ve probably just spent the previous 2 years studying and working hard towards, let alone having to pay for. The way I see it is that the problem originates with the people who have been in the industry for several years, and who are not proposing or enforcing rules or regulations in order to manage pilot training. Flight training centres are churning out commercial pilots by the day, with no regards to whether they will be able to find work in the industry. Why should they care? There making tons of cash off us. There needs to be some type of Canada wide organization that manages the training of pilots, in order to ensure work for everyone that qualifies. Not only would this improve the quality of life of the pilot of an individual through higher pay etc, it would also improve the skill and knowledge of new pilots, being that only students who excel would graduate due to the reduced number of pilots needed.

I hate the fact that I flew for free this summer, but I truly love flying, and I’ve spent a lot of money and time over the past two years to reach my goal. I’ve worked in other industries prior to acquiring my licenses and I know that I want to fly for a career. Whether im flying a C172 in the NWT, or an B737 out of YYZ, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, so if I have to bite the bullet for a year so be it. I have no idea what else to do.

To return to the topic of the thread, the guy just wants to fly. Understand where his motifs are coming from, and act accordingly.

Cheers.

P.S. If anyone wants a 350TT SMELS Pilot pm me! Ill move anywhere, anytime! And im a damn hard worker! And a nice guy

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[The Prof]

I guess I could work at McDonalds instead, while I patiently wait for the economy to pick up?

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[The Prof]

Your probably right, although I never said I wanted to work for free, and in an organization that has any paid pilots I would never dream to impede on a position that may be filled with a paid pilot. I basically took the position to fly while I finished my training and to keep me in the left seat. Im merely trying to state the rational for my decisions, and why there are probably other people out there with the same reasoning.

[Dagwood]

Do I hate the fact that I worked for free? Yes, but would I do it again, Maybe. The problem isn’t the fact that there are pilots working for free, the pilots just want to get their career started in the industry

Why is there a volunteer job available?
In a perfect world, it wouldn't happen in a professional industry such as ours.

The thing about the aviation industry....

There is always someone else who will fly for less than you will. Always.

Pilots are their own worst enemies.

+100

Youtube

[bushflyerr88]

I would like to throw my two cents into the mix:....


The way I see it is that the problem originates with the people who have been in the industry for several years, and who are not proposing or enforcing rules or regulations in order to manage pilot training.

...you're on your way to being one of them..

Flight training centres are churning out commercial pilots by the day, with no regards to whether they will be able to find work in the industry.

Yes we better not train people ... they might offer to work for free!

By the way did the world always owe you something?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

In a perfect world, it wouldn't happen in a professional industry such as ours.

How can the industry be considered professional, yet are willing to work for free?

How many truck drivers will drive a truck for free in the hope that they will eventually get paid for their work?

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[NorthFlyer]

The Prof well put. Keep that attitude and you will have a great career.

[LNAV+V]

I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, so if I have to bite the bullet for a year so be it.

I don't want to grill you too much. Took some balls to say what you did... especially on this site .
However, "volunteering" (good euphemism) your time is not paying your dues in this industry. Your resume would look far nicer working your way from the ramp up than time building for a company that should be paying you.

[Invertago]

If your employer makes a profit so should you.

If you want to fly for free, do it for a charity.

If you can afford to work for free, you can afford to get a paying job and use the income to buy a share in a C150 and fly the crap out of it.
C150 - Price of a descent used car
Insurance -Less then a used car
Annual - Similar as a car
Gas - Same as your damn car

Work a paid job, live in Mom and Dad's basement, on your time off, fly around with resumes and hand deliver them. You'll get more experience then going up and down dropping jumpers on sunny 10 000' ceilings because you'll learn about looking after an aircraft and going on x-ctrys through out the year. When you land a job, sell the plane. This is why it is smart to get your own aircraft to do your CPL with in the first place but I digress.

[Invertago]

I have a business proposal, I'm going to start a fast food restaurant, and employ new CPLs. They'll work 60hrs/week for me for free (I'll feed em!)

After work they can clean my house, wash my car, walk my dog and mow the lawn in exchange for 10 hours / week of banner towing in my C172 advertising my company.


I'm seeking investors for this recession proof venture!





Edit: I don't need investors, I'll charge for a banner towing course to get me up and running!!!

[B-rad]

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your application to our company. It is true that we have positions available, these positions are given assuming you perform a Proficiency Checkout and training. We make this training available for the sum of $8000.00. If you do not have the means of raising these funds, I can put you in touch with a contact of mine in Nigeria. All you need to do is claim his inheritance (his father was the disposed King of Nigeria, due to the political circumstance he is unable to claim it himself) and send him the amount minus the $8000.00 you require for training.

Please be advised that our training regiment is the strictest around. We will make you one hell of a pilot. Your training regiment starts each morning with calisthenics where you are expected to be able to do one arm handstands while levitating rocks around you with your mind. After this exercise you will be expected to do a 2km run with a green midget strapped to your back. We expect our pilots to be available for anything at any time and our pilots must be ready both physically and mentally.

Your ground school classes will run for most of the day when you will sit in a room full of the other students and all the homo-erotic sexual tension you can stand. Remember there is no points for second place! You must always be your best.

After ground school there is more Physical Fitness in the form of beach volleyball. These volleyball sessions are mandatory as are the showers afterward. Again, these are full of homo-erotic sexual tension.

These ground school classes occur every other day. On the days you are not in the class you will be flying with your instructor. You are expected to display proper technique and proficiency in your stick and rudder skills as well as your professionalism on the radio. Clear communication is key always ask the tower before performing a flyby. With out sufficient warning tower members may spill coffee on themselves and "want some butts!" (see volleyball and showers above).

As mentioned above we will test you both physically and mentally. Half way through your training session we will inexplicably kill your First Officer. This is both to prepare you for how to deal with the aircraft single crew as well as see how you are capable of handling the stress. Our resident nurse Kelly McGillis is on standby should you need someone to help you get through the loss of your FO.

As part of our psychological training you will also be locked in a theater constantly playing scenes from the 1930's war epic Hells Angles. You will stay in this room for a few days where you will receive chocolate chip cookies and bottles of milk for sustenance. Please relieve yourself in the empty bottles of milk (helpful tip for long flight! We cannot afford a delay just because you have to pee.)

Should you pass our training regiment you will be awarded a set of cloth wings (at your expense $9.99) that are to be sewn to your company provided (at your expense $499.00) leather jacket. Please be advised that this be worn at all times along with large aviator style glasses, a timepiece (able to tell time not necessary), black pants, white shirt with captain bars, and a tie.

Once all this is complete you are considered sufficiently skilled to fly our fleet of Cessna 172s and Piper Cherokees. These aircraft are the best of the best. You will be assigned missions that will test your skills day to day. Just remember that as the PIC you are responsible for the aircraft, especially since we are no longer insurable so you are also financially responsible for the aircraft.

I hope to hear back from you shortly, our last crew died in a horrible plane vs. ground accident, but do not worry, this was not reported. We have a strict policy of maintaining our pilots dignity and reputation. In the (un)likely event that you perish while in our employ, our companies health benefits cover the cost of recovering your watch and sunglasses from the crater. Should these be too damaged to resell and cover the cost (YOUR COST see PIC aircraft responsibility above) of the aircraft these will be sent to your family via courier (collect).

Respectfully,

Invertago
Chief Pilot For Now

LMAO if it was me, I'd hope to get this one!! <---------My Vote!

Send him the link to this thread. It would offer him a greater spectrum of feedback.

Really good idea

Dear Edited,

Thank you for your interest in "company X". Yes we are currently looking for pilots or No we are not looking for pilots at this time(which ever applies). I admire your eagerness to fly so much that you are willing to work for free, however we feel that it is not in your best interest nor ours to allow you to do that. Please forward your resume for review. If you meet the qualifications we will contact you for an interview. Again thank you for your interest and good luck in your job search.

Company X

But this is seriously what I hope happens. This is what I would expect to see.

[B-rad]

P.S. If anyone wants a 350TT SMELS Pilot pm me! Ill move anywhere, anytime! And im a damn hard worker! And a nice guy

Great! I like guys who work for free. With fall coming I need someone to help me with the yard. I'm not a big fan of working in the rain. How soon can you be here? and References?


Otherwise, I hear what your saying about regulating the training and I think a cool Idea would be if kenN Borek opened up a flight training division and would only hire from this pool of Pilots trained from the ground up with them. Kinda like military flying. I would bet that people would go to that school with a bunch of motivation,prove themselves, and actually get training that is tailored for the job. And you know what, I bet only as many jobs are available would graduate. How's that for keeping the Pilot surplus under control? who knows, training costs could reflect what they are actually worth. But this is just another save the (training) industry post in the wrong thread.

[Invertago]

P.S. If anyone wants a 350TT SMELS Pilot pm me! Ill move anywhere, anytime! And im a damn hard worker! And a nice guy

Great! I like guys who work for free. With fall coming I need someone to help me with the yard. I'm not a big fan of working in the rain. How soon can you be here? and References?


Otherwise, I hear what your saying about regulating the training and I think a cool Idea would be if kenN Borek opened up a flight training division and would only hire from this pool of Pilots trained from the ground up with them. Kinda like military flying. I would bet that people would go to that school with a bunch of motivation,prove themselves, and actually get training that is tailored for the job. And you know what, I bet only as many jobs are available would graduate. How's that for keeping the Pilot surplus under control? who knows, training costs could reflect what they are actually worth. But this is just another save the (training) industry post in the wrong thread.

If KBA started their own school with a job at the end, they could charge double the normal C172 dual rate. They could use that revenue to operate some pretty nice trainers and pay a decent wage to experienced senior KBA guys who want a change to the m-f 9-5 life style. They then have their own custom training suited to their operation, there is a retirement job for their senior guys and they own a profitable flight school. The students win because even if they paid double for their flight training, they get a job at the end that pays a wage from day 1. I would have paid double to do a 2 year KBA CPL with a starting job on graduation. I'd be further ahead now both experience and $ wise.

B-Rad, I think your suggestion is the best thing since sliced bread and the best solution I've heard for the CPL flight training system in Canada. Kinda sounds a little European with a Canadian twist.

[Invertago]

Dear Edited,

Thank you for your interest in "company X". Yes we are currently looking for pilots or No we are not looking for pilots at this time(which ever applies). I admire your eagerness to fly so much that you are willing to work for free, however we feel that it is not in your best interest nor ours to allow you to do that. Please forward your resume for review. If you meet the qualifications we will contact you for an interview. Again thank you for your interest and good luck in your job search.

Company X

But this is seriously what I hope happens. This is what I would expect to see.[/quote]


Reply was sent, this was the one real life dictated he had to get, but the responses on the thread where rather entertaining. To Mr Edited *Names* credit at least he sent a properlly spellded leter with gooder gramer then mostest of the emails I gets.

[definenormal]

Supply and demand pretty much covers it.....the harsh reality I'm afraid. We pilots get the industry we deserve.

(I digress, but don't 'whores' get renumerated for their services? Hell! I've come across some enthusiastic amatures that still managed to cost me a small fortune.......)