paydaymayday wrote:Listen to all you rat bastards recommending kneepads. Back in my day, we couldn't even do it on our knees, we had to be bent 90 degrees at the waist with our legs spread nice and wide! "Squeal like a pig!"

And Ville, I hate to break it to you, but you ain't gettin' on no commuter as a 200 hour wonder.

+1

Invertago wrote:

paydaymayday wrote:Listen to all you rat bastards recommending kneepads. Back in my day, we couldn't even do it on our knees, we had to be bent 90 degrees at the waist with our legs spread nice and wide! "Squeal like a pig!"

And Ville, I hate to break it to you, but you ain't gettin' on no commuter as a 200 hour wonder.

+1

Where do you figure I can get on? I know sometimes they do have low time pilot pools for commuters and guys work on a ramp for a year or two and then get on.

Ville wrote:
Where do you figure I can get on? I know sometimes they do have low time pilot pools for commuters and guys work on a ramp for a year or two and then get on.

http://www.pilotcareercenter.com/AirCar ... .aspx?id=1

Go to town, apply your face off, go see some folks, keep bugging them, see them again... repeat.

If you get your foot in the door, don't tell them that you EXPECT a seat after a given amount of time. You have 200 hours... you're not entitled to s#it.

Betcha they didn't tell you that in flight school!

blockheater wrote:

Ville wrote:
Where do you figure I can get on? I know sometimes they do have low time pilot pools for commuters and guys work on a ramp for a year or two and then get on.

http://www.pilotcareercenter.com/AirCar ... .aspx?id=1

Go to town, apply your face off, go see some folks, keep bugging them, see them again... repeat.

If you get your foot in the door, don't tell them that you EXPECT a seat after a given amount of time. You have 200 hours... you're not entitled to s#it.

Betcha they didn't tell you that in flight school!

Yeah, I was kind of guessing that would be the only way. So what you are saying is not to tell them that I expect a seat, because it's a given that you will get one at some point and it's better to let them call me out when they want to? I know what you are saying about my low hours. I guess it's just a matter of hopefully getting in with a company that will upgrade me faster rather than later.

If you are lucky enough to get a ramp job leading to a flying postion, you have to "forget about flying" and concentrate on your job at hand. I know several guys who got canned because they would spend all their time talking to the crews and leaving all the work to the other ramp guys....good way to piss off your co-workers. Some crews notice this as well. If you want to network and ask questions, go to the bar when the crews are there. The flying will come.

GOOD point!

Nothing is more annoying than the guy who claims he wants the ramp (loading/cleaning/ fueling/whatever) job SO badly, then trots around trying to be a Velcro Pilot, sticking to every airplane and crew he sees.

IF you work hard, IF your word means anything, IF you have a good attitude, you WILL get what you want. Aviation is a tiny little world -- people you meet now, you may well be working with 25 years from now! Be a conscientious worker, and the rest will come.

I have so many examples of this, it would tip the server over if I wrote them all down. Just believe me on this one.

Ville, what pilot skills and experience do you have that would persuase an employer to upgrade you fast.

I can not think of anything more disturbing than a new pilot that thinks they should be upgraded fast.

Amen, Cat!!

Cat Driver wrote:Ville, what pilot skills and experience do you have that would persuase an employer to upgrade you fast.

I can not think of anything more disturbing than a new pilot that thinks they should be upgraded fast.

That's what I wanted to say but, in an indirect way.

Main Gear wrote:

Cat Driver wrote:Ville, what pilot skills and experience do you have that would persuase an employer to upgrade you fast.

I can not think of anything more disturbing than a new pilot that thinks they should be upgraded fast.

That's what I wanted to say but, in an indirect way.

From F/O to Captain? Agreed. From ramp to F/O? Give me a break! Some of us never did ramp...

"Upgrade" probably isn't the correct word. If you decide to go the route of working the ramp leading to a flying position, do your job and the flying will come.

It sure isn't easy these days, but sticking to the cliche's can work wonders. Once you find that ramp/dock/dispatch job, work hard, keep a great attitude (No one likes to hear about how much you hate your job, we all did it!!) and try to enjoy the ride. If you throw enough sh*t at the wall and remain in the right place at the right time something will eventually come your way. As for getting that job and advancing to flying at a relatively good pace, moving to a northern aviation community may be your best bet. That may be tricky with your family, but I'll leave that to you.
Even if you havn't lined up a sure job, just moving somwhere with some movement and doing some networking (chugging beer) while your working another job could be the key. By no means is it easy, but its possible! Good Luck!

Anything really is possible if your willing to work at it, and live where they want you. The only thing that scared me from a ramp job into instructing is job security.

Instructing you pay your own salary (which isent much depending on the school and time of year, but if your young without much to support it doesnt really matter) so your job is very secure. Ive never heard of guys getting canned from flight schools unless it was for something stupid on their part.

Where as with ramping, what i was worried about was getting into the job, working for a couple years with a small company, and then that company downsizing and getting rid of you. Its a horror story but i have heard it happen before, the worst thing is you come out of it with nothing, back at square one basically.

The only problem is instructing in the city means absolutely nothing to the companies up north. Now with 1200 + hours i find it HARDER to get a job. Compared to the three jobs i turned down when i had 200 hours. But i think i can blame that on the economy. Anyway its really important to consider these things, and think lots about the kind of flying you want to do.

Cat Driver wrote:Ville, what pilot skills and experience do you have that would persuase an employer to upgrade you fast.

I can not think of anything more disturbing than a new pilot that thinks they should be upgraded fast.

Where can you get "pilot skills and experience"? Being on the right seat (or flying easy runs to start) gets my vote over working on the ramp/dock. Why is it disturbing to you that every pilot wants to actually start flying as soon as possible?

Where can you get "pilot skills and experience"? Being on the right seat (or flying easy runs to start) gets my vote over working on the ramp/dock. Why is it disturbing to you that every pilot wants to actually start flying as soon as possible?

My comment was in response to this.

I know what you are saying about my low hours. I guess it's just a matter of hopefully getting in with a company that will upgrade me faster rather than later.

There is no such thing as fast upgrading in aviation.....or at least no real safe way to upgrade fast because it takes time to learn the job properly.

Does that explain my comment better?

No kidding. Your facebook photos are as boring as sawdust, Northy. I would never hire you.

Hey, "Meatservo" I know who you are. maybe the 'other' guys photos are more interesting

Cat Driver wrote:

Where can you get "pilot skills and experience"? Being on the right seat (or flying easy runs to start) gets my vote over working on the ramp/dock. Why is it disturbing to you that every pilot wants to actually start flying as soon as possible?

My comment was in response to this.

I know what you are saying about my low hours. I guess it's just a matter of hopefully getting in with a company that will upgrade me faster rather than later.

There is no such thing as fast upgrading in aviation.....or at least no real safe way to upgrade fast because it takes time to learn the job properly.

Does that explain my comment better?

ok, sounds good. I guess I should have clarified I meant being upgraded from ramp/whatever to cockpit. I agree it's necessary to put in hours and learn. What I'm thinking though is that time spent in a cockpit is most valuable for learning. If I can get out with an experienced pilot as much as possible, that will be the most beneficial thing I can do at this point. In fact, personally I would definitely not feel comfortable taking on the responsibility for a plane and passengers in many situations, that more experienced pilots would have no problem doing it. But let's say after a year of flying on the right seat, I'm certain my personal limits and comfort level will get to a point (or a lot closer) where I can be confident flying in less than optimal weather and actually be useful to a company.
With my low hours getting on the right seat and getting PIC on easy routes in good weather is the best thing for me. If I don't have to spend a year or two working on a ramp, I will be further ahead sooner. That said, I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

.

Ville wrote: I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

That is the smartest thing you have said so far on this thread

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

Ville wrote: I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

That is the smartest thing you have said so far on this thread

indeed.

Ville wrote::
I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

Isn't this why pilot pay is so poor? The next guy will undercut the guy in front of him.

It's a race to the bottom with that attitude.

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

Ville wrote: I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

That is the smartest thing you have said so far on this thread

If that's the case, not good... not good at all. Ville, if you're 'going to do what it takes regardless', don't even think of complaining about how crappy your wages are five years from now...

hairdo wrote:

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

Ville wrote: I'm going to do what it takes regardless. Never did get into aviation for the money...

That is the smartest thing you have said so far on this thread

If that's the case, not good... not good at all. Ville, if you're 'going to do what it takes regardless', don't even think of complaining about how crappy your wages are five years from now...

I chose to read this as Ville's intent to park his ego and work his way up the aviation career ladder like most of us have. The first step is to take what you get and work hard, learn from others, and make yourself valuable to the company. None of that requires prostituting yourself

Big Piston has it right. I also have personal reasons for getting into aviation which I'm not getting into, besides to say it's not because I'm looking to become rich. I'd also rather do something I enjoy than make "good money" doing something I hate. In any case, what am I & rest of the thousands of new pilots gonna do? Refuse to work for less than $60 000 to start? It wouldn't even work if we all did it. Never gonna happen. We'd have immigrants or someone coming to under cut us... If I've learned anything here in my couple of months on av canada is that (first of all no matter what you say people are gonna take it the wrong way ) it's undeniable that you gotta start with lower than desired pay. If I can support a wife and a kid to start with, I'll be pretty happy. Would I work for peanuts if I had a bunch of experience and was making good money for a company? For sure not; being responsible for million dollar machines and a bunch of human lives is worth something. But let's face it, loading/unloading cargo is not worth much, even if you have a piece of paper in your pocket that says TC thinks you are good to go. All I'm saying is that I don't expect to be compensated royally if I'm not worth it to a company. Then when I am, then I expect it.