cyeg66 wrote:

Braun wrote:Sorry I misinterpreted the "in contact with each other". Still sounds like a dumb way to do things to me.. I'd never use that, granted I don't have all that much altitude to work in either so it isn't really applicable!

What's YWG capped at? If it's 17000', I see your point. You'd spend as much time setting it up as you would just streaming them and/or working rates of climb and laddering. Meh, thankfully the sky is big.

Not based in YWG but where I work we are capped to 13000' and the bulk of departures are all straight out so we talk to aircraft for like 2 minutes before the hand off is made. This altitude business is definately more of an en-route thing, never had issues with it.

Obviously the type of separation standards involved and how to apply them varies from centre to centre and specialty to specialty. If you are going to quote me MANOPS from Part 4, fine. But realize that once an aircraft is radar identified, I can pull out some tools from Part 5 and apply some different separation standards.

To answer the original question from a terminal perspective, (I'm not sure what other of specialties are involved here) yes, aircraft performance is a big deal when it comes to deciding what separation standard I am going to use. (ie 3 miles (or more) or 1000 ft.)

Do I have to go around that guy or can I climb above him? Do I need to descend this guy now or can a wait a few more miles? Do I need to worry about this departing B737 overtaking the DHC8 20 miles ahead or will I be above him in time?

I have an over the shoulder scheduled for tommorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.

I'd be curious to see what from part 5 allows you to discontinue vertical separation between the cleared altitudes without your lateral.

Just curious, self improvement.

I'm not talking about discontinuing any type of separation.

I guess a good (I think) example of what I'm saying is if I have a departure that needs to climb to FL250 and there is an overflight 25 miles ahead crossing his track at 10,000, if I decide, based on aircraft performance, that the departure will be at least 1000' feet above the overflight before the lateral separation gets below 3 miles, then I'll clear the aircraft on course and climb him. And of course monitor the situation. If, again based on aircraft performance I don't think the aircraft can out climb the overflight then my options are to vector around while clilmbing or restrict 1000' below.

471.4
If the type of separation or the minimum used to
separate aircraft cannot be maintained, take
action to ensure that another type of separation
exists, or another minimum is established,
before the previously used separation becomes
insufficient. (N)

471.4 Note:
For example, if two aircraft are on converging tracks,
ensure that vertical or longitudinal separation exists
before the second aircraft passes the point on its
route at which the appropriate lateral separation
would be infringed.