Finally hit the 100 hr mark but.....

Gogona · Post by **Gogona** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:41 pm

Hi, Niss! I still remember your topic, cause I have exactly the same issue starting from my 130 hours. Now I have 170, but the last 40 were built through a lot of worries, fears and canceled flights, and a few months ago I just realized, I don't enjoy my flying anymore

So, did you solve your problem eventually? If yes, could you share your personal experience?

SkySailor · Post by **SkySailor** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:19 pm

You could check with Hedley for some advice.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:33 pm

Did anyone else have this sort if confidence crisis? How did you deal with it?

I held my best friend's dog tags until I got over it.

Adam Oke · Post by **Adam Oke** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Beefitarian wrote:
Did anyone else have this sort if confidence crisis? How did you deal with it?
I held my best friend's dog tags until I got over it.

niss · Post by **niss** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:13 pm

Beefitarian wrote:
Did anyone else have this sort if confidence crisis? How did you deal with it?
I held my best friend's dog tags until I got over it.

Ok, that is awesome.

Well played.

gopher_killer · Post by **gopher_killer** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Hey Niss, congrats on the 100th hour! It is a big deal and you should be proud of yourself. On two of my early flights I had really close calls.

If you have ever flown as YBW at 10 am, you know what a gong show the circuit can be. On my second solo, I was cleared the low approach for 34. Departing traffic was on a stop and go but forgot about the go part. I overtook on the right as this guy was taking off. Only problem was that someone stepped on the mic as tower was telling me to go left not the standard right. I flew not more than 100' from the diamond taking off and about 150' from the R22 doing circuits on 25. That's close enough for me thanks!

Second Cross country, I was down at High River doing a touch and go. I touched, but with the wrong two wheels. The left main and the nose were all that had contact with the runway. How that thing stayed on the runway, I do not know! I'm not a religous person but in those 5 seconds I sure found God. I understand your fear as I have felt it myself. (why is there no "crapping my pants" smillies)

Fast forward 2 years and I am now an instructor and manage to get the right wheels on the ground every time. I have 3 suggestions to help you out.

1) I suggest doing some crash and goes in a full motion sim. Not many but enough to realize you can handle a bad situation without the risk. This should help you relax.

2) DONT FORGET YOUR RUDDER!!!! You are in slow flight over the runway. The most importand control surface is your rudder. It keeps you staright and if you are not straight, you are screwed!

3) Find an instructor to show you what the plane can actually take. If it is a 172, you can really beat it up IF you keep it straight.

If all this fails, go up with a Private student in the circuit. then you will know what fear is.

Hope this helps a little.
GK

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:07 pm

Just a simple question.

3) Find an instructor to show you what the plane can actually take. If it is a 172, you can really beat it up IF you keep it straight.

Why would anyone want to really beat up an airplane?

gopher_killer · Post by **gopher_killer** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:13 pm

3) Find an instructor to show you what the plane can actually take. If it is a 172, you can really beat it up IF you keep it straight.[/quote]

Why would anyone want to really beat up an airplane?[/quote]

A 172 can take quite a pounding. It is designed for someone that flies 50 hours a year. If you can feel a hard landing and know that it is recoverable, it will help take away the fear that Niss seems to be dealing with... That's all... Don't actually want to cause structural damage, just apply the principle of intensity....

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:19 pm

I know I may be ruining everything here but...

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:30 pm

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:43 pm

Don't actually want to cause structural damage, just apply the principle of intensity....

" The principal of intensity "

You instill fear as a teaching method?

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:38 pm

I don't care if this was posted a year ago... I think this is a great thread with lots of good input! Kudos to Niss for sharing and asking!

It seems we all have, at one point, had an experience that has either shaken us up a little or at least put the brain in to some rethinking of our approach to what is considered a non-dangerous activity, yet a very accident prone industry. I have had a few scares myself. First one was actually induced by my instructor that had a fatal accident in his own airplane when I was at about 30 hours. I seriously thought about quitting. I had a close call myself, that had me just park the plane and drive home to look up alternative careers... That was at about 200 hours. Commercially I have had a few situations that had me scratch my head, both my own doing and a few captains.

Every time I have had a scare or a situation that has left me uneasy, the best help has always been to talk it out with peers and colleagues! You quickly find that most of us has at least one story that relates to what you've experienced yourself. Through sharing, you can always find a way to manage your fear and anxiety to a point that make you feel comfortable again. It doesn't happen over-night, but in time as you process it in a factual and realistic manner, you regain the confidence you need to carry on.

For me it was just a matter of getting back to basics. You reach a point where you think you can do anything, and then you get reminded about your limits. Limits are important! Keep it simple and safe, and in time you can bring your personal limits upwards.

And as many have said... Going up with somebody more experienced, someone that actually has a few "experiences" behind them can be extremely helpful!

It is sometimes hard in an environment that is somewhat competitive (early commercial stages) to admit that you had a bad "experience", but as you get older you learn quickly that you get more experience through sharing and asking, than keeping things to yourself and not asking! One of the big questions when you get interviewed by the big airlines can be "have you ever had an accident or an incident?". If you have, say so! They expect you to share and show that you walked away from the experience and took something useful away from it! It shows that you are accepting of the fact that things can happen from time to time, and that we have to learn from this to get even safer!

Fly Safe Everyone!

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:40 pm

That's not what I meant, I like the thread. Congratulations on 100 hours niss.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:44 pm

Gopher-killer, my comment was not meant to degrade how you teach, I have some problems with the so called laws of teaching and one of them is the intensity thing.

I do not use fear as a teaching tool, I use calm and clear explanations with accurate demonstrations of the method of control to help them learn.

Flying an airplane is not any different than operating any other mechanical device, and there is not a certified airplane out there that is all that difficult to fly.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:48 pm

Since you're here Cat, congratulations on 100 hours.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:03 pm

What is important beef is not flying the same 100 hours over and over.

Gogona · Post by **Gogona** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:08 am

Beefitarian wrote:I know I may be ruining everything here but...

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:30 pm

No, guys, keep advising, please.
For Niss this problem seems to be solved, but for me it's the hottest at the present moment

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:06 pm

Gogona,

I got your info. I'll try to call you this eve.

Thx

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:46 pm

I would advise that you suck it up, buttercup... If you wet your panties every time you do a circuit you should probably just stay on the ground.

On a serious note, I think that most pilots have a bit of a holy er than thou attitude. The "it will never happen to me" mentality is, in my opinion, somewhat healthy. How does one make sound decisions, or in a commercial environment money, if they are intimidated by the equipment they are operating?

My only encouragement would be to get back in the saddle and fly until you get over it. Whats the worst that could happen??

Good Luck

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:11 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Gopher-killer, my comment was not meant to degrade how you teach, I have some problems with the so called laws of teaching and one of them is the intensity thing.

What part of the intensity principle do you disagree with? The learning factors all are really pretty obvious observations of how human beings remember stuff. What often doesn't get discussed is how they are often double edged. Intensity for instance only really states that people remember things longer/better when they connect them with a strong emotion. This can work positively or negatively. In niss's original example the connection of a fear response and landing the airplane is a negative connection - our brains unfortunately are very generalist when it comes to connecting emotions to actions. Realistically niss shouldn't fear landings or crosswinds, he should fear performing them poorly. Much like how people often feel they are afraid of heights, when really they should be afraid of making a critical error and falling, it might help. Either way fear, while "intense", usually has negative ramifications when learning something new.

Remember "intensity" doesn't always equal fear. Most of us have connections of some of our flying skills with positive emotions, which are just as "intense". Why do you think so many of us are addicts?

robertsailor1 · Post by **robertsailor1** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:24 pm

Too many instructors use fear when teaching probably because it was the way they were taught. During spin training their voice goes up an octave or two and that's all the student needs to hear before he fears spins as well. Parents often use the same style to teach children about traffic or strangers etc. It is effective but for all the wrong reasons.

Gogona · Post by **Gogona** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:01 pm

I should remark here, that confidence crisis has nothing in common with "fear of flight" or "fear of height". The most accurate definition of this feeling lays close to "Realistically niss shouldn't fear landings or crosswinds, he should fear performing them poorly". © Shiny Side Up
Frankly saying, that's exactly what happens to me: after each messy approach or hard touchdown I find out, I don't wanna go up again, cause next time I might do the same thing even harder and likely damage the aircraft.

2 Niss
Thank you!

gopher_killer · Post by **gopher_killer** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:15 pm

robertsailor1 wrote:Too many instructors use fear when teaching probably because it was the way they were taught. During spin training their voice goes up an octave or two and that's all the student needs to hear before he fears spins as well. Parents often use the same style to teach children about traffic or strangers etc. It is effective but for all the wrong reasons.

Sorry, have to jump I on this one. The only reason we learn spins is because they are so deadly. In a 172 at 3000' AGL, they are a ton of fun. A spin at 500' AGL in any other plane is deadly. In case you missed it, 3 guys bought the farm just out of Sundre in just such a 'fun' situation.

A prime example of a Intesity experience is a first solo. If you don't remember yours, you were probably drunk.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:39 pm

I guess doing spins can be a " Ton of fun " for some pilots, however as far as I am concerned teaching spin avoidance is far more important.

I must be really out of touch with flight instructing because I can't remember the last time I thought about the laws of learning when teaching new skills to pilots.

One of the skills that seem to be lacking in many pilots is how to accurately judge height above the runway, especially when I am teaching them wheel landings in a tail wheel airplanes.

iflyforpie · Post by **iflyforpie** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:58 pm

<stirring pot>We just need to equip all planes with GPWS so a voice will tell you how high you are on landing</stirring pot>

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:20 pm

Believe it or not when I was working in Greece for Air Sea Lines the twin Otters on floats were equipped with GPWS just like the Boeing's and Air Busse's. It was real weird hearing the count down to touch down on the water.

They did not have the " retard " command though.

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