Skyregional takes flight May 1st

[dashx]

Many apologies. I forgot that there was more than one cook in the kitchen.

Discussing salaries is certainly one way to stir the pot.

[Mig29]

Skyservice 757 Captain 150, 000
Jazz 757 Captain 110,000

Just sayin....

Love when folks just make comments here that completley make NO sense! Jazz gets $155/hr Capt pay from TC for their 757. That is no where close to $110K/year!!

90 hrs a month?????!!!!!!! I'm doing 65 on a 37' in the west and that's just a perfect balance between home and work life. If you're looking for a divorce, work 90hrs a month. Anyone anywhere can work more to make more, but is it really worth it!!?

FL020 I am with you on this 100%!! Less for more money is my moto here too

Tailgunner:

Skyservice (Airlines) is no longer in business. Perhaps that number you mentioned had something to do with it (so now go off on a tangent).

and 110k or better 167K at Jazz? wonder who is paying for that? Oh ya Air Canada......

Let them keep spreading the wealth.

I'm not even going to waste my time on this one....

[bcflyer]

And no disrepect BC, but good luck with that! Fly less, make more! The way this industry is going, again, good luck with that!

And that attitude is the exact reason we are having so much trouble making it happen... (shakes head in disgust)

[Mig29]

And that attitude is the exact reason we are having so much trouble making it happen... (shakes head in disgust)

Agreed BC!!

It's called not valuing your self and your profession....It's not about who can push themselves more here folks, it's about quality and safety of work you provide while being fairly rewarded at the same time. Increasing credit blocks while making the same money, you are bound to lose those two.

[KAG]

90 hours a month doing southern turns is about 10 days worked, 67 hours doing multiple short hops can take more. Personally I'd rather work 90 hours over less days worked. Just saying.

[unregistered]

tailgunner, you meet the very definition of ignorant
(ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/Adjective
1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy". )
The Jazz payrate for the 757 155.00/hr and @ 90hrs/month is about 167,400.00
now, do some research on how status pay works, otherwise your attempt to slag the Jazz pilot group for dividing the pay equally among us is futile at best. A dash 8 pilot making 110.00/hr, thats lowering the bar? really ignorant, me thinks.

It's "what goes in the pilot's bank account" pay that matters, and Jazz pilots get less money in their bank accounts for flying 757's. Period.

If you're willing to accept less in your bank account for doing something (irrespective of what the company is charging the customer) you have lowered the bar because others, at other companies, will be expected to do something similar for the same amount in their bank account (irrespective of how much money that company is making).

Stop trying to justify status pay, it's getting annoying. We all know how it works, now go outside and play.

[Dark Helmet]

Unregistered,

Respectfully, If you understood the the status pay system at Jazz then we would stop trying to explain it to you. Judging by your post above, you still don't understand.

The 757 pilots are getting paid $155 an hour. However, the 757 pilots have decided to share the extra $45 they make in an hour among their fellow pilots who are flying the DH8, Q400, and the CRJ instead of taking the pay for themselves. As far as the company is concerned, they are paying $155/hour. Just so happens that every Jazz pilot gets a piece of the pie, not just the ones flying the 757.

The reason why the net pay is $110/hour is because the 757 accounts for 4% of the Jazz fleet with 4% of the Jazz pilots are flying the 757......for half of the year.

If Jazz had an all 757 fleet, Every pilot at Jazz Capt would be making $155/hr.

That is how the pay was negotiated into the Jazz CA. A CA that the pilots at Jazz voted in favour of. Is this the perfect system? Maybe, Maybe not, each to their own.

Clear as mud? If not, then you can go outside and play instead.

[unregistered]

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I fully understand how the system works. I also understand how it benefits the Jazz pilot group. What I fail to understand is how it benefits the Canadian, or global, airline industry. That's the "bar" I'm referring to and that, in my view, is what gets lowered in the end.

Again, it doesn't matter to me what Thomas Cook pays Jazz, or what Jazz pays a Dash-8 pilot. It matters to me what Jazz pays a Boeing pilot as the next airline to operate Boeings in Canada will want to pay something similar (using Jazz as an example), and that bar has now been lowered. The pilots of said new airline will have a tough time explaining that they should be paid more than Jazz Boeing pilots because Jazz pilot's are on "status pay".

Anyway, I've made my point and you've made yours - don't want this to drag on!

Respectfully,

[Dark Helmet]

OMG

I do not want to drag this on but you are leaving me no choice. You have not made your point because your point is based on lack of information and knowledge.

No pilot group should be naive and stupid enough to accept a salary of $110/hr to fly strictly Boeings and nothing else. The pilots of Jazz accepted those airplanes for $155/hour . I already explained why they are getting paid 110/hr. Should a company offer a pilot group Boeing salaries of $110/hr then that pilot group better start telling to company to buy a fleet of 120 RJ's and Dash 8s to balance it out. Either that or raise the wage to 155+/hr.

If not then don't accept the job because otherwise they would be lowering the bar. Sadly, there are pilots in Canada that would fly a boeing for a lot less regardless of what Jazz or any other airline pays.

To be clear, The Jazz pilots have not lowered the bar by flying Boeings. Period.

I do not know how the Jazz status pay system helps the Canadian aviation industry. What I can tell you is that paying everyone the same and giving everyone the same level of compensation at Jazz has allowed the pilots to chase lifestyle and not metal. This has also saved the company millions in training cost. Not to mention that we have a one tier, very unified, organized, and strong pilot group as a result.

[teacher]

Again, it doesn't matter to me what Thomas Cook pays Jazz, or what Jazz pays a Dash-8 pilot. It matters to me what Jazz pays a Boeing pilot as the next airline to operate Boeings in Canada will want to pay something similar (using Jazz as an example), and that bar has now been lowered. The pilots of said new airline will have a tough time explaining that they should be paid more than Jazz Boeing pilots because Jazz pilot's are on "status pay".

Than sadly you don't understand basic economics. It DOES matter what Jazz pays the pilot group as a whole (using the status pay system) and it DOES matter what Jazz charges Thomas Cook for the '57. That is what's important. It's basic economics and if all you can see is what 30 some odd pilots make instead of the bigger picture well, there's nothing we can say to explain it further. Actually let me change that, what's important is that the ALPA represented pilots at Jazz are one of the most unified pilot groups in the country, very little elitism and all willing to work towards benefiting the group as a whole.

[altiplano]

Maybe you guys should start a new thread about how great and/or shat Jazz pay is?

[teacher]

Maybe you guys should start a new thread about how great and/or shat Jazz pay is?

Compare any similar airline and Jazz's WACON will probably come out on top. Just ask anyone at AC and they'll tell you how over paid we are

Work rules are one of the best in the country for an airline job IMHO, just ask anyone on reserve at AC. Not to mention great per diems, pension and half decent benefits.

[Treetopflyer]

FL020
I worked 8-10 days a month on the 75. And it's easy work. dude, it doesn't get much better than that.
and for those of you who don't like 110K a year or whatever it is on the 757, then go fly a dash 8 100 for that pay. you have a choice. Or go to AC or WJ or whatever. Jesus H christ.
F@#K me some people are ignorant.

[bandaid]

I'm confused, isn't this a thread about Skyregional? Lets try and take it back to the topic.

[Treetopflyer]

Ya you're right. Got sucked in.
My bad.
Skyregional away...

[The Hammer]

# of 757's in canada = 10?
# of Dash 8-100/200's in Canada= 100?

Jazz's high Dash 8 wages improves the lifestyle of more pilots IMHO.

I know it's more complex than that but it sure as hell hasn't negatively affected the Boeing wages at WJ.

Sky service was a charter holiday airline and history has shown that they all seem to die eventually.

[teacher]

I'm confused, isn't this a thread about Skyregional? Lets try and take it back to the topic.

With pleasure!

[Localizer]

Sadly people like unregistered believe only a hand full of pilots should enjoy money in their bank account .. Thankfully Jazz pilots believe everyone should prosper equally.

Hmm .. maybe a lesson could be learned here? Jazz pilots see their group as a whole .. unlike other groups who see themselves as a whole bunch of individuals.

That's a strange concept in this industry .. thinking of someone besides yourself.

[tailgunner]

Localizer,
I guess yourself and jazz pilots' ought to be happy that there are now 40-60 pilots enjoying an airline type lifestyle, flying modern equipment between modern airports. Some of these SR pilots are now prospering by having a steady paycheck, benefits, a stable employer, good a/c, and they are not instructing, flying in the bush, etc....
Spare us the over the top notion that Jazz pilots' have the greater good in mind. You are looking out for yourself as much as the next guy....and that is perfectly normal. We all do it. just admit to it.
With respect. 'gunner

[teacher]

Localizer,
I guess yourself and jazz pilots' ought to be happy that there are now 40-60 pilots enjoying an airline type lifestyle, flying modern equipment between modern airports. Some of these SR pilots are now prospering by having a steady paycheck, benefits, a stable employer, good a/c, and they are not instructing, flying in the bush, etc....
Spare us the over the top notion that Jazz pilots' have the greater good in mind. You are looking out for yourself as much as the next guy....and that is perfectly normal. We all do it. just admit to it.
With respect. 'gunner

Not sure why we "ought to be happy" about Sky Regional. Nowhere did anyone say we're doing this for the betterment of the aviation industry (although I believe status pay is better). We are doing this for the benefit of ALL pilots at Jazz and the success and improved bottom line of our employer. Nobody here trying to cut pensions and pay for new hires or setting up an LCC with bare bones WACON for anyone brave enough to make the jump over. We look after ourselves yes, but ALL of ourselves.

Suckered into another thread drift, sorry folks

[tailgunner]

Localizer,
right on...I see that. BUT, there have been more than a few swipes at ACPA and AC pilots in general for allowing a let for SR to operate. SR may improve AC bottom line, and thus may help secure an AC pilot's pension and future job prospect. It cuts both ways. If AC saves a big chunk of change by having Jazz compete with SR in the future, that may save MY job and those hired at AC behind me. with respect. 'gunner.

[justwork]

So ya, in an effort to get back on topic. I've heard that SR pay is something like 50K base and X amount for hours after 50 a month. Works out to mid 70's a year. Seems like an odd pay structure, maybe they should just pay mileage...

This forum is the worst for thread hi-jacks. 12 months ago it was all about AC and mandatory retirement. I wonder what it will be in 12 months from now (looks into crystal ball and sees discussion about government bail out and AC)

[altiplano]

The self righteous ooze on this thread is sickening...

[WhatThe?]

Has anyone ever worked out what Status pay at AC would be?

I'd be willing to bet half the pilot group might really like it

[teacher]

Has anyone ever worked out what Status pay at AC would be?

I'd be willing to bet half the pilot group might really like it

............and to think of all the savings for the company in terms of training costs that could be put towards pensions and other nice things