Not trying to provoke a pissing contest (I am sure that I know some of the furloughs, maybe they can come back to Canjet for the winter...would be good), but...Canjet is not subcontracted. Canjet is directly contracted by Transat AT not Air Transat. Air Transat does longhaul/large market for Transat AT, Canjet does shorthaul/small market for Transat AT.

I hope this is short lived...

So,
Just throwing this out there, where is the union protectionism here?
This is proof in the pudding that sometimes this false sense of protectionism lives with a union for all u young fellas out there that have never really experience a few good downturns in the industry.

It boils down to the management. Places like WS have a great employee/management relationship. AC and now TS have demonstrated the divide way too much. I'm sure if TS gave a crap they would have offered up leaves or reduced blocks a couple months ago. Perhaps they could have reviewed their contracted flying and simply paid the penalty for cancellation of some of the contracted canjet flying to provide for their own....Now these employees have a pretty bad taste in their mouth on how they have been treated. That's building the wall...

Lima Lima wrote:Yes as hard as it is to say, this is all true for what it's worth ... I am one of the Bus drivers who has just been furloughed along with 16 others. Huge shock and hard to deal with right now.

Just wanted to put some fact to the thread for everyone.

I am very sorry to hear that, I've been in your shoes before and I'm sure you'll get back in the game very soon. I know a few Airlines are hiring. Air Canada for one. If you have a rating on the 310, I know of one carrier that is looking for 310 rated pilots in the middle east. 3 month on 1 month off. Good perks

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=77511

Sadly, the layoffs probably affect the new guys who don't have the needed 500 hours.

Since the layoffs appear to be directly related to the 'parking' of 1 A310, are there also downgrades from the left seat of the A310 and were the 17 most junior FO's all A310 or were some A330?

The 17 most junior FOs are a mix of 310/330. Not sure what the exact breakdown is, but most recent hiring has generally been split between 310/330, probably a little more onto the 310. I havent heard of any downgrades yet, but that's always a possibility when there's reductions.

Hopefully all can apply and be hired at either WJ or AC and leave AT behind. That will teach JME not to try to take pilot hostages. It is ridiculous that hiring and furloughing would all take place within the same 30 day timespan. It shows disrespect to the pilot applicants who probably left good jobs based on the undertakings that were made by AT in the hiring process. It isn't like another 'unforeseen' 9-11 happened to AT. Adding capacity into an oversaturated marketplace in a recessionary economy is not a plan that will reap financial success. Nor is complaining that there are too many players an appropriate competitive response. Ironically, it was AT that taught WJ how to be a player in the leisure tour business.

As i said a couple of months ago, I believe that JME is going to put labour in his sights. This is just a shot across the bow at the AT pilot group and its leadership. He knows that he can save more with a broader concessionary agreement that applies to all AT pilots rather than simply removing the 17 lowest paid pilots from the payroll.

Good luck.

Because working for AC or WJ is the answer... Please....

It's tough enough feeding the family and making ends meet on 50000 G a year, never mind 39000 working for AC.

You want disrespect- Two pilots working side by side. One making 100 plus and the other 39000 bucks. Who do you think will get laid off first?

Can someone explain to me how a company can continue to operate at a loss of a $100 million+ every quarter year over year and still hire pilots? And when a very reputable company hits difficult times (albeit still earn a profit), is forced to send people to the streets?

I guess I don't understand the economics of the airline business.

With the entire World economy on the verge of another Global recession there we be more pain ahead for many pilots.

Groupe Transat AT has promised its shareholders an operational review to be completed by Dec.15

One would expect that much more will be known then. Nobody has yet commented on whether labour at AT has been approached for concessions.

Flaps 1 wrote: I guess I don't understand the economics of the airline business.

everything is here if you want, information is available online
http://www.transat.com/_pdf/en/investor ... rt3.en.pdf

you're not obliged to read the 34 pages of course but go directly to p11 and you'll see a good comparison of revenues vs. net income in regards to operating cost, credit, and debt.

those (ops cost) are also described and explained p7

p16 for strategic changes within AT

P17 future changes in accounting policies is technical but important because your decision making change depending on the way you count :

In February 2008, the AcSB confirmed that Canadian GAAP, as used by publicly accountable enterprises, will be superseded by International Financial Reporting Standards [IFRS] for fiscal years beginning on or after January 1, 2011.

giving :

The second stage of Phase 2 included detailed planning of information technology and human resources requirements as they relate to the changeover.

the outlook is p21:

For the fourth quarter, the Corporation’s capacity is 12% higher than in 2010. Slightly more than 80% of capacity has been sold and load factors are 4% inferior to the previous year at the same date. Selling prices (including fuel surcharges) are similar to last year, despite an increase of approximately 30% of fuel prices, when expressed in Canadian dollars.
In France, bookings for medium-haul travel are slightly behind compared to last year, due to unrest in North Africa. However, the decrease in bookings for North African destinations, notably Tunisia and Egypt, is partially offset by the rise on other destinations. On long-haul travel, bookings are more than 10% higher than the prior year. Average selling prices are higher than last year.
Consequently, Transat expects the results of the fourth quarter to be inferior to the record results reported last year.

hiring and laying off has never been a way to figure out the financial health of a company as long as we don't know why it is done. same thing with incorporating new aircraft in a fleet : is it to increase the capacity, to gain new market share, to fuel a foreseeable contract or simply a fleet replacement ? etc, etc...
I'm not an accountant, I'm not a financial specialist and I can be very wrong, but after reading this report, AT looks in a very subtil situation and is exxxtremely cautious not to loose control and get overwhelmed by increased operating costs and decreasing revenues. AT seems to be protecting its available cash in the same time to be able to pay its debt and aircraft lease in case of further degradation expected in the Dec15 Q4 report.
one can always say that hiring so many pilots and putting 2 330s online before the Q3 results and retiring only 1 310 wasn't a good strategic move but hey, we're not in the office after all and we don't know everything. but for sure some people got fired for that move and may be few other things... like a $21millions loss in the last 9 months.


at least that's what I've understood. another opinion will be very welcome.
hope this helps.

Watermeth, I think Flaps1 was likely referring to Air Canada. A public company that has a truly divine ability to hemorrhage money, yet continue to hire, operate as a predatory competitor, run otherwise healthy airlines out of business... and then get a check from the government.

Pilots start writing your MP's. I do all the time. Air Canada will have an LCC division - which would offer further competition to companies like Transat, Sunwing, Can-jet ect. I can already predict the AC LCC coming in, undercutting the market, have a load factor of %90, and lose 100 million a quarter. These otherwise healthy companies turn to dust, then AC gets a bail out from the government.

These Transat lay offs are awful, and I feel sick that these guys left good jobs only to be jobless for no reason at all. This is managements mistake, and you're paying to price. I'm sincerely sorry to hear this and I hope you're collecting a decent pay check soon.

all of these healthy airlines employ foreign pilots ( transat via canjet) .

The fact that we have foreigners flying Canadian aircraft while our very own are being laid off is deplorable. This should be forwarded immediately to our politicians and media. IMHO the line has been crossed.

Layoffs of Air Transat Pilots
November 24, 2011 - The Air Transat pilots’, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), reacted to the announcement of the layoff of 17 pilots and denounced the airline’s subcontracting strategy which utilizes seasonal foreign workers. Last Friday, Air Transat sent layoff notices to 17 of its pilots. Based in Toronto, and hailing from Québec, Ontario and Alberta, these pilots will be out of work starting December 19. Air Transat cited its recent financial results and a decrease in flight hours as justification for the layoffs. The Company has not yet ruled out the possibility of more layoffs. The holding company, Transat A.T., has an agreement with CanJet Airlines to operate a portion of Air Transat flights to southern destinations this winter. Canjet will use additional seasonal aircraft and hire foreign pilots to meet its staffing needs.

“These layoffs are a major blow, not only to Air Transat pilots, but to all Canadian pilots,” said Capt. Sylvain Aubin, chairman of Air Transat pilots’ master executive council. “The fact that Transat A.T., through CanJet, is using foreign pilots when its own pilots are out of work is reprehensible. It’s time to put an end to these practices. Despite there being unemployed pilots in Canada, the federal government has authorized some airlines to hire foreign pilots under the Temporary Foreign Worker Program. Reports indicate that this winter alone, Canjet and Sunwing have hired over 35 and 180 foreign pilots respectively.

Capt. Dan Adamus, President of ALPA’s Canada Board, added: “The hiring of even a single foreign pilot, when there are unemployed Canadian pilots, is unacceptable. The issue of hiring foreign pilots and its impacts on the labour force are subjects that need to be taken seriously by the federal government. Some airline managements have been abusing the Temporary Foreign Worker Program by using it for competitive advantages instead of filling a labor shortage as originally envisioned by the legislation.”

ALPA Canada has been lobbying the government for changes to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program and will be raising the issue again when it appears before the Senate Permanent Committee on Transport and Communication next Wednesday. The need to protect the jobs of Canadian pilots is a priority issue for ALPA. Air Transat is known for its international experience and wide-body aircraft operations. The company markets its fleet in 26 countries, with approximately 90 destinations throughout the world. Air Transat employs 430 pilots based in Montréal, Toronto and Vancouver.

Contact: 514-332-4716

http://www.alpa.org/

This should be forwarded immediately to our politicians and media. IMHO the line has been crossed.

The TS union rep was on TV (on the french channel TVA) this morning to explain the situation to the media. A first step!

The 17 most junior FOs are a mix of 310/330. Not sure what the exact breakdown is

7 x 330 FO's + 10 x 310 FO's

One of my friend is actually one the 37 foreign pilots hired by Canjet for the winter, YUL based... We talked about his contract and I was really surprised to see how well they are treated... Salary 6000 $ca/month tax free (i.e paid wherever they want...), nice furnished accomodation provided by Canjet (total budget is 2600$/mo including internet/heat/housekeeping/etc), rental car paid for the 6 months they are in Canada... 3 full sim sessions in Miami (1 week long) for the TC PPC, trip expenses, hotels, rental car covered by Canjet... No health coverage though but we figured out the grand total must be close to 10 k$/mo per pilot. I don't have the big picture but I honestly don't see how this can be a lot more competitive than a canadian pilot who stays on the payroll all year long paid on a first year TS salary...

Another question... How are the Canjet captains allowed to fly on JAA registered aircrafts (I have seen 2 French registered 737's in YUL the other day) with their TC licences...?

I don't blame my friend for getting a job with Canjet... He has a part time job (6 months) on the 737 in Europe and he just tries to make things work for himself (we all would be doing the same if we were in his shoes). What really makes me sick is to see other canadian pilots leaving some - sometimes very - good seats (FO's @ Jazz, Suncor, etc or even left seat on the A320 in Europe) to be on E.I a few weeks after starting at TS... Something is not right and I really feel for those who will be laid off on dec 19th.

On a positive note, TS is hiring a few hundreds FA's in the early months of 2012, they have or will finish the new pilots trainings... This makes me think TS will try to recall some/all of the 17 pilots in the spring for the busy summer season... Also the Thomas Cook "empire" doesn't look to healthy this days and I am sure TS would try to get its piece of the pie if something bad was going to happen with the UK operator.

Good luck to those who got the bad news in the mail box. Hopefully the storm won't last too long for you.

T.

Layoffs, foreign-pilot hires separate issues: Transat

Pilots complain airlines using Temporary Foreign Worker Program to save money

BY FRANÇOIS SHALOM, THE GAZETTE NOVEMBER 25, 2011

0

MONTREAL - Air Transat and Air Canada pilots say that a federal program is allowing Canadian charter airlines to hire foreign pilots en masse and on a permanent basis, resulting in layoffs of available Canadian pilots – such as the 17 Air Transat pilots who were cut this week.

Transat spokesperson Debbie Cabana said the layoffs “are intended to be temporary” and “stem essentially from adjustments to flight schedules in a seasonal industry.”

But Capt. Sylvain Aubin, chairperson of Air Transat pilots’ master executive council, which is represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), said in an interview Friday that “it doesn’t say anywhere (in the notice) about temporary. In fact, they say that there could be further cuts. We were placed before a fait accompli.”

Cabana denied that, and said only 16 pilots were laid off – a 17th has asked to be placed on extended leave, she said.

She said the layoffs have nothing to do with the issue of foreign pilots.

The non-Canadian pilots were hired by Halifax-based CanJet, Cabana said, with which Transat signed a five-year partnership in 2009 to fly CanJet 737-800s from 20 Canadian cities to 20 sun destinations.

She referred all questions about foreign pilots to CanJet, which did not return messages.

Air Transat employs about 415 pilots who fly its fleet of 23 Airbus aircraft, 11 A310s and 12 A330s.

The issue is not new and involves Ottawa as much as the airlines, said Aubin.

The Temporary Foreign Worker Program, run by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, was intended to fill in temporary gaps when Canadian candidates were not available.

But Aubin said that the measure is now being used by charter airlines as an economic tool to save on expenses – specifically the cost of training pilots on specific aircraft, known as type rating.

The worst offender is Toronto’s Sunwing Travel Group, said Aubin and Capt. Paul Strachan, president of the Air Canada Pilots Association, who has met HRSDC officials on numerous occasions to try to fill in the loophole.

About 180 of Sunwing’s roughly 400 pilots are foreign, they claimed.

Colin Hunter, chairperson of Sunwing, said that “yes, we do employ pilots, primarily because it’s a very seasonal business, and obviously we cannot employ Canadians for three months of the year and then let them go.”

Hunter could not say how many foreign pilots the airline employs.

Aubin said he accepts the premise for the government program – airlines sometimes need the flexibility to hire foreign pilots.

“It’s the abuse and (institutionalization) of the measure I object to,” said Aubin.

It makes no sense for a Canadian government program to block unemployed Canadian pilots — including another 17 at Transat who will lose their job on Dec. 19 — from getting a job in their own country, he said.

HRSDC spokesperson Christian Plouffe said he could not address the issue immediately. A staffer said answers to emailed questions could not be provided immediately.

“This is a huge issue,” said Strachan, adding that despite getting a sympathetic hearing whenever he raises the issue at the highest levels in Ottawa, “we always run into some sort of impregnable bunker (at lower levels).”

Aubin said “these layoffs are a major blow, not only to Air Transat pilots, but to all Canadian pilots. The fact that Transat A.T., through CanJet, is using foreign pilots when its own pilots are out of work is reprehensible. It’s time to put an end to these practices.”

fshalom@montrealgazette.com


http://www.montrealgazette.com/business ... story.html

It would be nice if some of these TS pilots could get hired by Sunwing, seeing how they are advertising for FOs!

Thanks for sharing that article. Now everyone keep writing your MP to get your point across. I make a point of writing mine weekly. Yet to get a response....

TopperHarley wrote:It would be nice if some of these TS pilots could get hired by Sunwing, seeing how they are advertising for FOs!

I think I might ....

Does anyone knows how many canadian pilots work from european bases during summers at Sunwing?

Could that be enough to "balance" the hiring of expats in Canada during winter?

Lets look at this from a different perspective. Yes it is terrible that the 17 AT pilots were laid off. With that said; how many of these pilots would actually seek out, apply and take jobs with Canjet or Sunwing or any other small 705 operation? Keep in mind that has been stated previously that they just recently left good jobs to go to AT. I would be surprised if any would go to Sunwing or Canjet or other small operator. If they did I am sure it would be well known it was with the intentions of gaining nothing more than a temporary pay check with some leaving while undergoing type training. (How long does it take to type train a pilot on a 737NG from scratch?)

I see alot of complaining by the union groups and their representatives; however they do not paint the full picture. I am sure Sunwing and Canjet would love to have the opportunity to hire and retain the experienced pilots that were laid off by AT. How many former Jetsgo, Zoom, Skyservice, etc... are working at Sunwing and Canjet? I am sure alot of other smaller 705 or 704 operators would love to hire their experience as well. Hiring does not happen overnight and on demand as soon as a layoff occurs. I am sure they would also be sceptical about how long they would stay if hired. They would be expected to jump at the first opportunity to AC, AT or WJ once again. Its a catch 22... Once you move up its hard to move back down.

IMO; the foreign pilot issue has nothing to do with the lay offs or reducing their chances of gaining employment. Just gives the unions something to bark about. Even if all the laid off pilots were graciously offered instant direct entry positions at Sunwing, the complaints would still continue and the reps would still have to make press releases about how they are unfairly treated. It's what they are paid to do and they would not be doing thier job if they remained silent...

Just my humble opinion.... been laid off a few times myself and it sucks.

sim_deval wrote:Does anyone knows how many canadian pilots work from european bases during summers at Sunwing?

Could that be enough to "balance" the hiring of expats in Canada during winter?

Certainly not 180...

1) Another question... How are the Canjet captains allowed to fly on JAA registered aircrafts (I have seen 2 French registered 737's in YUL the other day) with their TC licences...?

2) Also the Thomas Cook "empire" doesn't look to healthy this days and I am sure TS would try to get its piece of the pie if something bad was going to happen with the UK operator.

1) They get an FLVC.

2) You couldn't be further from the mark.