College of Pilots

[TomM]

More comments:

Cough Syrup- read my first post in this thread. The big stakeholder groups are identified there.

Jackg737- you make interesting points. The industry is finding just what you're saying; students are leaving flight school unprepared for their first job. There is a movement afoot to address that by refining the curriculum that schools use. It is at its infancy. The College could be a great resource in that process.

Big Pistons Forever- we at the College do view this as the next step in the evolution of piloting. Nonetheless, as you have stated, it will be an incremental process.

I hope you agree that things have changed in the industry and will continue to change as time marches on. Things are decidedly different than when "big pistons" ruled the sky or when jets were first introduced. It would be a shame if we as professionals were not having real, relevant influence through an organization like the College.

You may be correct, we may fail. The numbers will tell the tale when we start offering pilots the opportunity to join. I'm not ready to quit yet.

Fly safe,
Tom

[20102m2]

http://www.avaerocouncil.ca/images/stor ... ot.pdf[url][/url]
This may be helpful Tom- it should reduce the number of unfounded opinions the CPPC was making which caused consternation with many established organizations that are already doing many of the things the CPPC initially proposed.

[172pilot]

Again. The real problem of low wages/benefits is not being addressed. Unless the college can somehow limit the amount of CPL's issued, or support airlines to create their own training academies which only take the best students based on academics/university degrees etc (like some of the major EU airlines do - and i see zero reason why it'd happen here in canada with lower training costs) it will be of little benefit for the average low time commercial pilot. The best solution is more industy attrition, while fewer people pursue a CPL due to what is slowly becoming a very expensive license for little pay afterward.

[Doc]

I just gobble up this crap. Really. It's like my "giggle of the day".
Gee, maybe our industry would improve if we all stood together....
Wouldn't be entertaining if pigs could fly?...
Even 172pilot points out..."The real problem is low wages/benefits......" Any of "we at the college.....(could that be any more pretentious?) even bother to READ that? That is a HUGE problem. The college's stand on it is...."we're not a union...." In other words, tough titty says the kitty.
We even have a pilot working overseas that feels the "college" should provide a means to "certify" his log book. Yup they should get right on that one. Wouldn't want some poor sot wasting away in the right seat of a Boeing/Airbus while guys are getting ahead on the 185's right here at home. No fairness there.
Then 172 thinks the "college" ought to limit the number of CPL's issued. What PLANET are YOU from? Do you think everybody with a BA has a job? Some do....unlike young pilots with an inbred sense of entitlement, they get other jobs till the market improves. They don't BUY themselves a slave level job!
Am I pessimistic that a "college" of pilots will fly? Bloody right. Because for the most most part, pilots are NOT professionals. A "professional" wouldn't "buy" a job. AND, a company that wants to hire "professionals" wouldn't make that a condition of employment. Ya reaps what ya sews.

[Cat Driver]

If the college could get rid of intimidation of pilots putting reassure on them to fly poorly maintained over loaded equipment in weather conditions that are dangerous it would be a start.

If the college could ensure pilots are not intimidated into flying long duty days to then point of exhaustion it would be a start.

Without the power to change those issues not much will change.

Also the "professional desegnation is shallow.

[Meatservo]

Do you think everybody with a BA has a job? Some do....unlike young pilots with an inbred sense of entitlement, they get other jobs till the market improves. They don't BUY themselves a slave level job!
Am I pessimistic that a "college" of pilots will fly? Bloody right. Because for the most most part, pilots are NOT professionals. A "professional" wouldn't "buy" a job. AND, a company that wants to hire "professionals" wouldn't make that a condition of employment. Ya reaps what ya sews.

Well, yes and no. I've met plenty of people with BAs and BSCs with a sense of entitlement. Some of them are; and some of them are not, pilots.

Unfortunately, I find myself on the fence here. I don't like Doc's attitude, but I'm having a hard time divesting myself of a similar level of cynicism.

[Prairie Chicken]

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it." - Samuel Butler

The College has admirable goals which are going to be very difficult to achieve. Still, not trying will most certainly guarrantee no gain. We need to try. The status quo isn't pleasant.

[trey kule]

One of the things that a national organization could do, I think, is lobby the federal government to enforce the labour standards. simple things like statutory holidays being paid or given off.

A national organization could also act as a lobby for better duty time regulations, .

Too any companies simply ignore labor laws when it comes to pilots, particualrily the new young ones.
A day off is when the Weather is bad. Transport allows this interpretation. they also do not specify that you should be free of ALL duties from the company on your day off...Not...well, its rainining heavy, so lets do paperwork today, or wash the planes. The federal labor department is a rather useless in comparison to the provincial ones.

I think it is important that a college get some general aviation people involved. Airline types, while well meaning have unions and collective agreements to protect them.. The majority of the pilots that need protection dont.

a national organization should also provide some sort of legal support for wrongful dismissal cases (selective).

The mentoring idea, is well, in my opinion great in therory, but it wont fly (pun intended). Just to many new pilots that want only to find a quicker way to the HR offices or CP's door. You only have to read the posts regarding how I can log this or that time to meet the absolute minimum requirements for a license upgrade to realize that mentoring someone is going to be more than a little challange.

As far as time cerification goes, I understand the US has a system whereby if you work for someone they certify your time , training etc., with them..Simple...If they lie, they are liable. It would take little effort for an association to have this implemented as the benefits would be enormous in the reliabilty of log book enteries... I do understand that a company doing due dilegence before hiring should actually have a previous employer put the details in writing, but the fact is, most simply wont.
Again, the association could become involved.

In any event, the concept is noble, and I wish the best to those who are trying to make it happen

[Liquid Charlie]

Again. The real problem of low wages/benefits is not being addressed

First let me say before I scratch the wound here I have no idea of what wage expectations should be for new pilots starting out - I was fortunate to work for what I thought reasonable money throughout my career -- although $300/month initially I did struggle a bit -- what would that translate to these days - but that was short lived once I got my 1st buck 80 - minnow master to cessna driver -- what a leap

So I do ask the question again -- where should pilots expect to start wage wise -- you can't pull it out of your ass or base it on some mystical figure there needs to be guidelines somewhere - maybe cost of operating vs yield -- take a small single -- what is a reasonable tariff charged - then you need to break down the costs -- and the pilot gets his cut - so where does the first job 185 or cabin class twin f/o get -- there needs to be realistic answers - we all like to see it be fair but to expect wages that are unrealistic also is crazy

So a question to those starting out -- what is a starting salary that would be acceptable and how much money should be considered top $ for the 703/704 and is there anyone paying this now --

don't forget the ftdt issue will likely create more jobs but the work will remain the same -- more pressure on the pocket book --

enough mindless rambling

[contrite]

Funding. How would a college pay for its activities? Either it would have to be a significant mandatory levy on all licenced pilots, or the functionaries would have to work for free. The former would require considerable legislation, the establishment of collection mechanisms and requisite audit/protection activities, and a reduction in the already low take-home pay of the majority of members. The latter would become a case of "you get what you pay for". Pilots are not going to willingly sign up to pay for something from which they do not see a visible immediate benefit, so to idealistically say that this is for the future of the industry will not work without forcing (taxing) the existing pilot workforce. Any opt-out mechanism would breed the resentment of one group paying for the benefit of the rest (particularly since those that are in a position to pay are least in need of the college), and the effort would eventually languish and become ineffective. No matter what the functional objectives are of the college, until the funding question is settled and agreed upon it is a non-starter.

[Doc]

Okay Meat...I'll admit it. I'm jaded. Here's why.
The BIGGEST problems with out industry are 1) companies bully pilots. 2) working conditions suck. 3) the pay sucks, unless you're with a fairly progressive company, or an airline....like all the "college" members so far. 4) bonds and "buying" jobs.
THESE ARE THE VERY ISSUES THE COLLEGE HAS NO INTENTIONS OF ADDRESSING
So, I'm OUT!
Call it an "attitude" if you must, but I can recognized a pipe dream when I see one. These guys are dreaming! To the rest of you: Do you really THINK a group of "airline" pilots REALLY have YOUR interests in mind? C'Mom MAN! They HAVE good jobs. They HAVE good working conditions! It's going to be just one more money grab. Look at CALPA in Wasaya's case....can't even strike, and these poor sots pay dues.


"If the college could get rid of intimidation of pilots putting reassure on them to fly poorly maintained over loaded equipment in weather conditions that are dangerous it would be a start.

If the college could ensure pilots are not intimidated into flying long duty days to then point of exhaustion it would be a start.

Without the power to change those issues not much will change.

Also the "professional desegnation is shallow. " By Cat Driver.

Exactly the area the "college" as NO intention of addressing.
And C'MON MAN....do you people really think we have more of a right to be called "professional" than pretty much any other line of work? What make us more "professional" than truck drivers? Welders? Electricians? I KNOW pilots with grade 10! A couple with even less education than that! And a couple of these guys will recognize a fucken stall!

[172pilot]

Then 172 thinks the "college" ought to limit the number of CPL's issued. What PLANET are YOU from? Do you think everybody with a BA has a job? Some do....unlike young pilots with an inbred sense of entitlement, they get other jobs till the market improves.

Doc, I didn't say that. I said "unless the college can limit CPL's being issued".... never said they ought to. I dont support artificial supply reductions. I was trying to make the point, too many entry level pilots. You can start all the professional designations you want, it wont fix anything.

[flyinthebug]

Okay Meat...I'll admit it. I'm jaded. Here's why.
The BIGGEST problems with out industry are 1) companies bully pilots. 2) working conditions suck. 3) the pay sucks, unless you're with a fairly progressive company, or an airline....like all the "college" members so far. 4) bonds and "buying" jobs.
THESE ARE THE VERY ISSUES THE COLLEGE HAS NO INTENTIONS OF ADDRESSING
So, I'm OUT!
Call it an "attitude" if you must, but I can recognized a pipe dream when I see one. These guys are dreaming! To the rest of you: Do you really THINK a group of "airline" pilots REALLY have YOUR interests in mind? C'Mom MAN! They HAVE good jobs. They HAVE good working conditions! It's going to be just one more money grab. Look at CALPA in Wasaya's case....can't even strike, and these poor sots pay dues.


"If the college could get rid of intimidation of pilots putting reassure on them to fly poorly maintained over loaded equipment in weather conditions that are dangerous it would be a start.

If the college could ensure pilots are not intimidated into flying long duty days to then point of exhaustion it would be a start.

Without the power to change those issues not much will change.

Also the "professional desegnation is shallow. " By Cat Driver.

Exactly the area the "college" as NO intention of addressing.
And C'MON MAN....do you people really think we have more of a right to be called "professional" than pretty much any other line of work? What make us more "professional" than truck drivers? Welders? Electricians? I KNOW pilots with grade 10! A couple with even less education than that! And a couple of these guys will recognize a fucken stall!

Doc... I agree with ALL you listed as wrong with the industry. It does need addressing and it is likely that the College will not deal directly with working conditions, pay etc...as that will not be their mission statement. However... maybe if we already had a college in place for say ohhh 80(ish) years like Doctors & Teachers, we wouldnt be experiencing these issues?

Im not suggesting the college is the answer to all our problems, but I do believe its a step in the right direction. I think you are too stuck on what they wont do vs what they will or could achieve.

After my initial comment on this thread, Tom M was kind enough to send me a PM which led to some casual conversation between us. You know ive spent my entire career "in the bush" like you, and he was very welcoming to my input. He also went as far as inviting me to (sit in)at the next board meeting should I have the time to attend. Is that a group of "exclusive airline types" that are all dominating the board? OR is that a Board president that recognizes how people like you and I and others who have spent our careers on the 703/704 level...have alot to offer the new college? I see that as a fairly wise move for a newly adopted undertaking?

Doc, all im asking is that you take a few mins and have a chat with Tom M and see if you feel the same way afterwards. They have some really solid ideas that will overall help the industry.

As for the professional designation...That is a tough one. I do also know many professionals in their own distinct industry. I dont believe though that you can compare what we do daily to that of a plumber or electrician. I too know a few pilots that even made the majors with less than Grade 12. Its rare anymore, but not unheard of. I think that should be part of the College agenda is to try to ensure the guys & gals upfront at least have a minimum amount of "book time". I say that with huge respect for guys like Cat, who didnt require the education when they started. My dad had grade 8 and was a very successful business owner, and my Uncle joined AC in 1959 with grade 10. He retired in 01 off the A330. So I know education does not equal intelligence...but I also think in this NEW day and age, if you cant pass grade 12, you shouldnt be upfront in these fully computerized jets of today. That said, you can have all the education in the world, and still pull on a stick when you should push. Nuff said.

Interesting opinions in this thread.
Fly safe all.

[teacher]

However... maybe if we already had a college in place for say ohhh 80(ish) years like Doctors & Teachers, we wouldnt be experiencing these issues?

Exactly. The sad part about this debate is how some folks don't even want to start to even TRY to make a difference. The first few steps are always the hardest but I'm confident that eventually with enough people this will make a difference, we just have to be willing to try.

[contrite]

You can try all you want, but until pilots individually and collectively are willing to be honest with themselves about the present role and status of aviation in today's world economy, it will always be a "try" and not a "do". Commercial aviation has been commoditized, and it is never going back to being a high-status premium activity supported by tax-funded governments. The sooner we admit this to ourselves, the sooner we can get stop trying to maintain that delusion at the expense of gaining improvements actually available. All the union tub-thumping in the world isn't going to make people pay ten bucks for what is perceived as a five dollar service, particularly to give raises to a group of "professionals" that can't even organize an explosion in a dynamite factory.

[TomM]

Wow- you go flying for a few days and all hell breaks loose!!

To address some of the comments subsequent to my last post:

20102m2:
Thanks for the link. FYI, although not mentioned, I believe that the former President of the College did participate in that report. Perhaps his contribution was not sufficient to make mention. Nonetheless, the College supports this endeavour and hopes to contribute to future efforts on this front.

Remember about the vision of the College when in comparison to other organizations; the College is expressly for pilots while these other organizations have scope outside of piloting.

Doc:
I am glad I could give you a funny for the day and I apologize for coming across as pretentious. Indeed the "we" right now does consist of a board of 10- big deal. A small group when compared to the 23,000 potential members.

I really think we are talking the same line except you're a little more to the point in a shock jock sort of way. I can also see that this effort may fail. But as Prairie Chicken has said through his quote, I believe we must try. I do agree wholeheartedly with your comments about buying jobs and the companies that would condone that- is that the behaviour of professionals? Would a fully implemented College condone this sort of behaviour from its members? Of course not.

To skip ahead to your next post, I also agree that our Board currently has a 705 bias, I believe I mentioned it in a previous post. We do have one 703 member who is an FO on a Beech 350 I believe. Prior to that, this person was a Class 2 instructor involved with Canada's first MPL program. A very capable individual that has a skill set that us pontificating airline types don't have. I am also pestering a good buddy that is the chief pilot of probably the largest 604 operator with operations spreading across all of Canada and as Flyinthebug has said, we've been getting to know each other through PMs. The vision of this effort is for ALL comm and ATPLs AND the ones who stand to gain the most from this effort are in the non 705 world or haven't even got a student pilot permit yet!

Cat Driver:
Here's something to think about. A fully implemented College would have a peer-based disciplinary review board (DRB). If scenarios that you propose do exist, the pilot in question would be called before the DRB to defend their actions and depending on the situation, could lose the privileges of their license. That is the power that doctor's colleges and lawyer's bars have. Will this happen overnight? To paraphrase Doc, doubtful, but we have to try.

Contrite:
There are 23,000 potential members. Do some simple math. What seems a reasonable due to you?

I see you made another post. Excellent point. I agree the problem with pilot's behaviour is one of simple supply demand economics. It can work both ways. Metaphorically speaking, as long as a market can sell an item at a particular price or treat its customers in a particular way, the market will continue to behave that way. If the customers refuse the price or the product, then the supplier will have to adjust to stay competitive. We are our own worst enemies and there are examples of that everywhere in this racket.

-----

Thanks to all the other comments.

Now a request- if you are interested in helping move this forward, as I have said before, you are in the drivers seat. You have two choices- you can PM me and we can start a dialogue and see if there's somewhere in there that you can help or you can help by joining when we hope to offer membership soon.

Fly safe,
Tom

[TomM]

Oh yes, the edumuhkayshun thing. I have seen pilots with degrees up the ying yang that are hacks and I've seen pilots with grade 8 that are some of the finest drivers whom I would trust with the lives of my wife and kids. So as far as those who believe that this College would enforce irrelevant academic constraints on pilots would be wrong. The College will with time identify the appropriate skills, behaviours and technical abilities that best suited to flying.

[Cat Driver]

Cat Driver:
Here's something to think about. A fully implemented College would have a peer-based disciplinary review board (DRB). If scenarios that you propose do exist, the pilot in question would be called before the DRB to defend their actions and depending on the situation, could lose the privileges of their license.

First off Tom, I fully support the effort to form any type of group that will work toward improving commercial aviation in canada.

If scenarios that you propose do exist,

These conditions are more the norm than the exception all through the 703/704 sectors of aviation and it has been that way since I started in aviation in 1953.

Nothing has changed for two reasons.

First is there are no protections in place to help the pilots who refuse to fly outside of the regulations.

Second and even more troubling is TCCA has never nor will ever give a @#$! about the industry beyond their own personal needs....little work....no need for quality performance .....corrupt upper management.......and above and beyond all else there is zero accountability within their system.

If you ever want to talk to me I'm easy to find and I do not color outside of the lines to make a picture serve me.

. ..

[Doc]

Remember about the vision of the College when in comparison to other organizations; the College is expressly for pilots while these other organizations have scope outside of piloting.

To skip ahead to your next post, I also agree that our Board currently has a 705 bias, I believe I mentioned it in a previous post. We do have one 703 member who is an FO on a Beech 350 I believe. Prior to that, this person was a Class 2 instructor involved with Canada's first MPL program.

I would think it would be "expressly for pilots...." Makes sense. The "Ontario College of Teachers" is expressly for teachers....etc.

What is "Canada's first MPL programme"? Not familiar with that one.

Hate to be a PITA, but pilots have sat around "over a few pops" since there were dinosaurs and bounced around the idea of a National "association" of pilots. All have pretty much com the the conclusion that pilots can't agree on the colour of the grass on their lawns.

Just because I, personally, feel you're "swinging at windmills" in no way means I don't think we need some sort of "solidarity" amongst our peers. I don't think a "college" per say is going to fly though. Not without major changes brought about by said "college" with regards to the treatment of the rank and file pilot. You come up with a plan that you can "back up" with some "teeth" to prevent pilots from being treated as "the lowest forms of humanity on the face of the earth" by some operators, get back to me. Until then, I'm not lining up to buy what you're selling.

Very simple question. Without getting into fancy side-stepping that belongs at a barn dance, what are you going to do for Joe Blow pilot that will make this industry anything but the dog and pony, gong show that it is today?

[teacher]

"Doc" I understand the way you think and why that is but let me ask you a simple question. If every pilot in this country said "NO" to the shitty wages and working conditions, "NO" to bonds and "NO" to taking it up the "you know what" and this industry and all the operators out there faced bankruptcy unless things changed they would.

I know what you're gonna say because I've said it too when discussing this matter. Getting everyone to say "NO" and speak together for all pilots (and not just for themselves) in this country without having anyone watching your back is near impossible. I've said "NO" twice and it cost me 2 jobs, nobody had my back so I can understand how hard it can be. This will be a huge undertaking and if it risks placing more costs on companies they will resist it tooth and nail however I still firmly believe that it is the only way to go.

(I know wages and working conditions will not be addressed by the College BUT it's a start)

[TomM]

What's up Doc? Sorry, couldn't resist

MPL is Multi-Crew-Pilot-License. I don't want this to digress into a debate of the merits of this, but that's what it means, here's a link:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... u-2278.htm

First of all, I am a terrible dancer and I hope that this isn't an evasive answer. At this point, supporting the development is in many ways buying into a vision. There just isn't the resources available at this very moment to create a right out of the gates "turn-key" product. In time, assuming membership grows, resources grow, our credibility and trust are built up, our knowledge base increases, then we will have the momentum to provide the mentoring and peer-based support to all pilots.

Again, in a world where the fully implemented College exists, if there are pilots that are "misbehaving" as per the code of conduct that the College outlines, then they would run the risk of losing their privileges. How that would work and what that would look like and how it would mesh with the current environment is the building that we need to do.

[old_man]

To skip ahead to your next post, I also agree that our Board currently has a 705 bias, I believe I mentioned it in a previous post. We do have one 703 member who is an FO on a Beech 350 I believe. Prior to that, this person was a Class 2 instructor involved with Canada's first MPL program. A very capable individual that has a skill set that us pontificating airline types don't have. I am also pestering a good buddy that is the chief pilot of probably the largest 604 operator with operations spreading across all of Canada and as Flyinthebug has said, we've been getting to know each other through PMs. The vision of this effort is for ALL comm and ATPLs AND the ones who stand to gain the most from this effort are in the non 705 world or haven't even got a student pilot permit yet!



Fly safe,
Tom

Tom,

I believe it is more of a fixed wing bias. There an entire other group of pilots out there. Is your plan to include them in this endeavor or will this be a seized wing club only? Just something for you to think about.

Enjoy.

[TomM]

Old_man:

This is an organization for ALL fixed and fling-wing comm and atpls. This is another current shortcoming we hope to address ASAP. Interested?

BTW- the 604 operator I mention above does have both aeroplanes and helicopters.

Tom

[Prairie Chicken]

A few random thoughts:

- TomM, thanks for trying to bring us up to speed about the College is & where you hope to go with it. I applaud your group's efforts & sincerely hope the project takes off (pun intended). I look forward to seeing the vision, objectives, decision records, etc. laid out on a web site or other document to allow those of us with the time & interest to read through them. Then perhaps we'll be able to make more constructive suggestions or comments. At this point I submit those of us who are interested don't know enough to offer useful suggestions. Also, we don't know why you've elected to go or not go in a particular direction.

- I like the mentoring idea. The idea of novice cpl holders being paired with one or more respectable, experienced, established pilot(s) who has been there, encountered that seems like an inexpensive and valuable asset. Sure, we all sit in the bar & hash things out, but it's likely with your buddies who are as inexperienced or boxed in as yourself.

- If you start small, expenses should be minimal, which in turn should keep membership fees down and allow the College to grow & learn. Then, once they have something to offer, higher membership fees could be considered.

- Getting more people involved is crucial. If your core group is only about 10 people, all or most working & dealing with young families, burn out may be a real concern. From my own experience, I suggest enlisting some recently retired folks--those who find themselves with time on their hands but are still interested in the industry and want to give back. Look for those people before they lose touch &/or have found other interests.

[snoopy]

It is worth taking a read through the original thread on this topic, which at times gets quite heated. Interestingly, it doesn't sound like that much has really changed, other than the name of the current leader:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=61099&hilit=college

I bear TomM no ill will, and respect his good intentions, but I stand by my original (albeit heated) posts, and have only the below to add:

>The only people I want in charge of my internationally recognized (ICAO) Canadian licenses, or any aspect of issuing, renewing, endorsing and/or revoking them; is the Canadian Federal Government.

>Nearly all helicopter pilots (all 4200+ professionally licensed) are not airline pilots. I'd venture to guess that less than half of the 20,300+ professionally licensed fixed-wing pilots are making their living in the 705 world. A great many professional fixed-wing pilots will never go the airline route, instead preferring to make their living in the myriad of other types of piloting careers available in the industry. Therefore, a token invitation for non-airline participants at this late juncture (3 years later!) doesn't eliminate the exclusionary direction this organization has taken. If you want to build an organization to benefit the people, you need to include ALL of the "stakeholders", and right from the get go.

>Don't expect an association, organization and/or union to solely accomplish on your behalf that which you are not prepared to stand up and fight for yourself.


_____________________________________________________________________


"Oh.... I just can't resist any more... I'm all for change in the industry, so much so that I have knowingly accepted the inevitable public flak one gets for speaking out in a crowd - because I believed it was the right thing to do. However nobody can do the job alone - every person with a vested interest must all dive in, get their hands dirty and bleed a little to make it happen. And they have to BELIEVE in themselves and in others to succeed...I just don't see this happening around here.

I would gladly support any group of people prepared to fight for proactive change in the Canadian aviation industry - providing they were a diverse bunch and representative of ALL walks of aviation, not just pilots. I am totally NOT in favor of a select group of secretive, elitist, (pardon me while I step outside of my normally politically correct self) white boy's club, unionist airline types with a few dollars in their pocket and the gift of the gab in the political arena.

If this select few has such lofty goals for the entire industry (well the fixed-wing pilot group anyway), then why do they not bravely and confidently step forward with their thoughts and ideas, with a view to enlist any and all who are willing to give - no matter how much, or how little - to the effort. And do they have such little respect for mechanics, dispatchers, ground support and everyone else that helps make the $$ burn, they seek to improve their own select ranks and leave the rest of the riff raff to wallow in the filth?

No thanks!

Those that "haven't forgotten their roots" have certainly forgotten their place."

_______________________________________________________________________________________

"There appears to be two "schools" of thought here:

1. The so called College is sneaking around behind the scenes preparing to take over pilot licensing in Canada, with no input or say from those that could potentially be most affected by said College. While Transport Canada is supposed to go through proper legal channels including public debate before delegating control over laws and licensing to an external agency, we've seen them bypass this before with the CBAA and cover their asses with the legal stuff two years after the fact. It was discovered the CBAA didn't fare too well with this responsibility and authority when someone finally got around to auditing them. If Transport is foolish enough to try this tactic again I imagine there will be widespread outrage and protest.

2. The so called College is going to save aviation safety in Canada - assuming of course you're a white male airline pilot that doesn't mind the fact that the engineers that fixed your aircraft, the ground handlers who handled your flight and the numerous other people that had a hand in getting you on or off the ground are represented by no one and your safety protocols/protections don't exist in their world. So as you don your clean white gloves and silk scarf, preparing to blast off into the wild blue yonder, don't trouble yourself that a tired mechanic just worked 36 hours on your aircraft due to lack of duty regulations, and installed bogus parts under the threat from a disreputable operator who "forgot" to insure your aircraft and decided not to flight follow you....

Those who have good intentions do not hide behind closed doors, conducting their affairs in secret and excluding diversity, input and contribution from the masses.

There is no real safety unless the entire aviation industry has the same rights and protections - and achieving this requires people to work together."
_____________________________________________________________________________

Cheers,
Kirsten B.