I like your trooper posting, but I still cannot countenance your response to the guys who will work for nothing. It seems to me that NOBODY really will work for nothing, as a normal person gets cheesed off at getting exploited, and if that does not sink in the first month or two, it soon will and you will have a surly or uncooperative 'employee.' Anybody who chooses to 'employ' someone like that deserves all they get.
What got my goat was your complete lack of empathy and your rather 'trooper-like' response to those desperate for a start. Misguided they are, perhaps. Clueless, definitely. Its like smacking the family dog for peeing on the rug - he's a dog and will act like a dog as long as nobody pays attention to him.
Too many metaphors here for my liking. My old dad said if you write something in anger, leave it overnight and re-read it in the morning - guaranteed you will re-write it.
I'm light-years past working for nothing, and never did anyway, but as you are a person holding a trust, I would ask you to examine your attitude.
Buying a PPC
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
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Ron Graham
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:59 pm
buying a ppc
3200tt, 3100pic, 1500multi/pic, ifr, atpls written with no job to date. What to do, spend 8k on finishing atpl and comtinue to keep applying or 4k on ppc and get to work (recoupeing the 4k and get the atpl anyway).
RG
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Always Moving
- Rank 3
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:13 am
- Location: Always Moving
EMPLOYABLE!
Really!
I have 3200TT 700 multi PIC ATPL and no luck and I know I am JUST an immigrant etc (with more experience than some here but JUST an immigrant).
I think the operators are playing cut throat and that eventually will show in the safety numbers. Then TC will say, “tighten the standards!” so the PPC are shorter so the circle is closed in the worst way, does anyone follow or I have to explain it in a lengthy way.
I have 3200TT 700 multi PIC ATPL and no luck and I know I am JUST an immigrant etc (with more experience than some here but JUST an immigrant).
I think the operators are playing cut throat and that eventually will show in the safety numbers. Then TC will say, “tighten the standards!” so the PPC are shorter so the circle is closed in the worst way, does anyone follow or I have to explain it in a lengthy way.
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smokin_rivet
- Rank 1
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:47 am
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Ron Graham
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:59 pm
buying a ppc
Yes, all my times are day vfr float, ice and off strip. 78 hrs of night would tune me up in a hurry. Funny thing though, I don't even want the atp, I would like to keep doing the bush work but it seems that most places want the licence (insurance reasons I would suspect). IMHO?
RG
Problem is, for any larger multi-crew a/c you must have an ATP...you can stay on floats or the bush, but if you have larger ambitions, you will have to get it. I rented a 172 block time and flew the sucker back and forth across central BC until I had enough time for the license. It was expensive and boring but it got me every job I've had since.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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Ron Graham
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:59 pm
buying a ppc
That's what I'm up to right now. Paying for the rental or paying for the ppc. I supose the rental is better as it will give something that is mine and doesn't expire in a year. Thanks for the support, I appreciate it.
RG
I really think it is unfair that you are putting the blame on the pilots who are willing to give themselves over for a job. If you are really concerned about this, why don't you just tell them NO and tell them why you are saying NO, so they can either explain themselves and there situation (they MAY not be living with mommy!), and then you can make whatever judgements you please.
If you want to get a start in aviation you have to:
1) do the instructor route, which we know everyone is not cut out for (which costs money, and may not lead to any multi pic time, and might lead to buying a ppc anyways)
2)get lucky..which i see is about a 1 in 50 trend.
3)work the ramp/dispatch which takes 1-5 years depending if you get lucky or how many companies you work for that go bankrupt.
4)buy a PPC and maybe build time on type
5)buy block time on a single engine.
I see all of this costing money and time and dedication...so why judge the person who buys the PPC's? Some (not all) of the people i have seen that have bought PPC's are the hardest working people i have EVER met, and have true dedication, and deserve that job. I think people's skills and personality should sell themselves. Anyone to judge someone that quickly obviously isn't looking at the whole picture, and doesn't deserve the position of CP. That's the way life goes sometimes, i just know i would never want to work for someone that would treat/judge any resume/person that way. The world needs less bitter pilots..whatever the issue..your never going to be happy.
If you want to get a start in aviation you have to:
1) do the instructor route, which we know everyone is not cut out for (which costs money, and may not lead to any multi pic time, and might lead to buying a ppc anyways)
2)get lucky..which i see is about a 1 in 50 trend.
3)work the ramp/dispatch which takes 1-5 years depending if you get lucky or how many companies you work for that go bankrupt.
4)buy a PPC and maybe build time on type
5)buy block time on a single engine.
I see all of this costing money and time and dedication...so why judge the person who buys the PPC's? Some (not all) of the people i have seen that have bought PPC's are the hardest working people i have EVER met, and have true dedication, and deserve that job. I think people's skills and personality should sell themselves. Anyone to judge someone that quickly obviously isn't looking at the whole picture, and doesn't deserve the position of CP. That's the way life goes sometimes, i just know i would never want to work for someone that would treat/judge any resume/person that way. The world needs less bitter pilots..whatever the issue..your never going to be happy.
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mosquito71
- Rank 0
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:05 pm
Shut the hell up Newf... Its people like you that are giving aviation a bad name. I paid for my PPC for the experience not to buy my self a job, and not to show how much money I have either. If it helps me get a job then that's great if not, oh well. It's all training. Not all of us want to be someone’s bitch for two years before we get to sit in the right seat while flying not cleaning the windows. I wouldn't want to work for a jack ass like you anyway. If you’re this dissatisfied with life, just shoot your self. No one really cares. I refuse to work for free and I wouldn't pay my way into a company. I like to fly airplanes isn't that what we all like. Maybe you don't? Sounds like you’re in the wrong business.
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wha happen
- Rank 8
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:39 am
why would someone go and spend 5000, 10000, even 20000 dollars on experience on say a king air or caravan. When if you truely love to fly you could spend that money on a piston single and get a lot more "enjoyment" for your money. I dont beleive that you were not trying to buy a job. But to each their own.
Its the way she goes boys, its the way she goes.
Lets sacrifice him to the crops.
Lets sacrifice him to the crops.
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quickflight
- Rank 4
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:09 am
- Location: near margaritaville
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Always Moving
- Rank 3
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:13 am
- Location: Always Moving
NOT A BLACK LIST
Why not just put them all in a list (what ever color you like) and say...this people when they started in aviation in order to get ahead, they work for free, bought a ppc, pump the ass in the air, or what ever they did.
I do not have a problem telling people what I have done...... but does everyone else?
I have come across a few people that after doing something like buying a ppc or worse work for free, years later they act like they did not.
Anyone follow me....
Finally, after 2 years looking for a job, I realize why I have not been hire.
PS: if you work for free you are not a professional you are an amateur by definition
I do not have a problem telling people what I have done...... but does everyone else?
I have come across a few people that after doing something like buying a ppc or worse work for free, years later they act like they did not.
Anyone follow me....
Finally, after 2 years looking for a job, I realize why I have not been hire.
PS: if you work for free you are not a professional you are an amateur by definition
Buying a PPC
Hello Everyone,
This is my first time posting a reply and I would like to say that I recently did a self-funded type rating course for a B767 aircraft.
It was tough, but thoroughly enjoyable. Every minute was pure satisfaction, just because I did it for myself. Anyhow, I just got hired to fly the aircraft for a company in the Middle East. They are paying me well and are providing very nice hotel accomodations as well as three meals a day.
Very soon I will be relocating to South America, where I will be flying to West African destinations through my present employer on the B767-200.
As for my advice on buying a PPC, I would like to say that if this is what you want then do it.
Good Landings.
This is my first time posting a reply and I would like to say that I recently did a self-funded type rating course for a B767 aircraft.
It was tough, but thoroughly enjoyable. Every minute was pure satisfaction, just because I did it for myself. Anyhow, I just got hired to fly the aircraft for a company in the Middle East. They are paying me well and are providing very nice hotel accomodations as well as three meals a day.
Very soon I will be relocating to South America, where I will be flying to West African destinations through my present employer on the B767-200.
As for my advice on buying a PPC, I would like to say that if this is what you want then do it.
Good Landings.
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ice ice baby
- Rank 4
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:02 pm
- Location: BC
