Clean aircraft Concept

[Takeoff OK]

Nope, the correct thing is to nail their asses to the wall. If everything about the original post is correct, they took off with wings completely covered by clear ice. How much weight do you think that added to the ATOW? What was the loading situation? Were they close to MTOW? Were they close to aft or fwd limits on CG?

You clearly do not understand the dangers of contaminated surfaces.

Let's assume there's 1/4" of clear ice distributed evenly on the wing of an A320. That would add about 1700# to the weight of the aircraft which is negligible.

You clearly don't understand my post. Not only does clear ice present all the dangers of changing the airfoil that rime and mixed do, it also adds considerably more weight than do the other two. If you think any unaccounted-for change in weight or cg is negligible, then you clearly are an ass.

[shamrock104]

Well I finally received a response today. It was an outright denial of any ice whatsoever on the wings and to me this is very frustrating. I am a great advocate of promoting safety and it was never my intention to name the said airline or for that matter to get any crew members into any sort of trouble. It could very well have been a case of groundcrew reporting that all was well before pushback. The outright denial concerns me and indicates that this airline is not very open to concerns or suggestions. I have requested that they need to call me on this matter.

[sanjet]

Wouldn't be this flight would it??!
Holy crap!
I guess in Russia, glycol is only to be mixed with vodka!

[watermeth]

looks like a trend over there........http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviati ... +ATR+Crash

Failure To De-Ice Likely Cause Of UTair ATR Crash
Failure to de-ice a UTair passenger plane before takeoff was the most likely cause of a crash in Siberia that killed 31 people, federal investigators said on Wednesday.

The UTair ATR 72-200 aircraft, carrying 43 people, tilted to its right side and then sharply left as it crashed shortly after takeoff from Tyumen in western Siberia on Monday.

"At the moment, on the basis of the materials received, the investigators consider the failure to conduct a de-icing procedure to be the most probable cause of the air crash," Russia's Investigative Committee said on its website.

It said witness statements from those responsible for de-icing the plane and video evidence from the airport's surveillance systems supported the suspicion. UTair officials declined immediate comment.

The head of Russia's federal air transport agency Rosaviatsiya, Alexander Neradko, had also said earlier that the plane had not been de-iced properly.

UTair has suspended flights of ATR 72-200s pending results of a separate investigation by the Interstate Aviation Committee, which looks into air crashes in 12 former Soviet republics.

UTair director Andrei Martirosov said, however, that the decision was made to reassure passengers and that there were no grounds for doubt so far that the plane was in a good technical condition.

UTair said the plane crashed while trying to make an emergency landing.

The federal investigators said the plane had notched up 35,000 flying hours since going into operation in 1992 and had not had a "serious" technical check since 2010.

[waiting to retire]

The 737's at Westjet are certified to takeoff with a very limited amount of frost on the top of the wing due to cold soaked fuel, but the depth is limited to 1/8 of an inch within a clearly defined area. The temperature must also be above freezing and no other contaminants falling. They are the only Canadian airplane and carrier that I know of with this approval (although Sunwing and Canjet might as well) but it certainly does not apply to this case.

Didn't the FAA rescind that approval in 2007. It's curious that TC would still allow it.

[True North]

The 737's at Westjet are certified to takeoff with a very limited amount of frost on the top of the wing due to cold soaked fuel, but the depth is limited to 1/8 of an inch within a clearly defined area. The temperature must also be above freezing and no other contaminants falling. They are the only Canadian airplane and carrier that I know of with this approval (although Sunwing and Canjet might as well) but it certainly does not apply to this case.

Didn't the FAA rescind that approval in 2007. It's curious that TC would still allow it.

It is still in effect and not really curious at all. It is supported by Boeing, they did a great deal of research on it. It is by Exemption and anyone can apply for it.

[waiting to retire]

It is still in effect and not really curious at all. It is supported by Boeing, they did a great deal of research on it. It is by Exemption and anyone can apply for it.

That's what I find confusing. I'm almost certain Ryanair are not allowed to and I thought, maybe mistakenly, that Southwest had be doing it but at some point were told by the FAA to cease. On the other hand, some other Euro countries do allow it.

It must be a regulatory approval thing.

[ScudRunner]

The Russians embrace the concept!

That would only be an issue on a rear engine aircraft, like a 727 or L1011.