AC Rampies walk off the job

[North Shore]

In my opinion, that Ramp Manager/Supervisor who allegedly suspended couple of those ramp guys should be suspended! He's suppose to manage and mitigate the situation, and he did exactly the opposite! He lit the fuse and made the situation worse!! He knows very well how his staff are feeling and that everyone is tense and ready to blow.....so instead of talking to this guys on the side, he sends them home!? What, now AC has moral and ethics police inside it's management and people are not allowed to applaud?!!??? But that jerk passenger can go and spit in the face of a female worker?!?

This is all spiraling down fast for AC and it's employees I'm afraid.....it is only going to get worse before things improve.

Indeed. Really poor handling of the situation by the manager. (And I do admit that we're looking at the situation in hindsight)

Clement's comment pushes buttons: Treasury Board President Tony Clement says 'see you guys on West Jet' as he passes strikers infuriates workers at Pearson.


Fine example by the same people who we pay TAXES to be there!!??? What a flipping joke this government has become

What a d!ickhead. He's not in question period in the House where he can taunt people like that

[Rockie]

You don't stand much of a chance managing any employee group with the magnitude of internal battles that we 'enjoy' today. Just the myriad of special interest group seniority/merger fights and all the other internal splinter group issues amongst the pilots is a prime example of what it's like herding cats.

Then why did Milton walk away with $80 million, and CR is getting $5 million more on March 31st if they can't manage the employees? I thought money was supposed to buy the best and brightest.

Not worth the money I'd say.

[accumulous]

You don't stand much of a chance managing any employee group with the magnitude of internal battles that we 'enjoy' today. Just the myriad of special interest group seniority/merger fights and all the other internal splinter group issues amongst the pilots is a prime example of what it's like herding cats.

Then why did Milton walk away with $80 million, and CR is getting $5 million more on March 31st if they can't manage the employees? I thought money was supposed to buy the best and brightest.

Not worth the money I'd say.

AC had a complete opportunity to fold. It didn't. That time. Maybe this time it will. Was it worth it to have a job and not be standing in line at the bottom of somebody's else's seniority list either in this country or in somebody else's country either at the competition's doorstep, or on the doorstep of a new entity? How much was that worth.

History is a reality check of the first order.

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fet ... _id=006yav

[Rockie]

Was it worth it to have a job and not be standing in line at the bottom of somebody's else's seniority list either in this country or in somebody else's country either at the competition's doorstep, or on the doorstep of a new entity?

The reason we have worker's rights in this country is so that our jobs are not hostage to ethically corrupt management's who enrich themselves by beating down their employees. Sadly this government likes workers beaten down. You're mistaken if you think people won't fight back instead of being thankful for any crumb thrown their way.

By the way, the collapse of Canada 3000 had nothing to do with the employees and everything to do with megalomaniac owners whose ego and greed made them abandon a successful business plan.

I've been unemployed before. Next.

[Zip Tie]

Time will tell how long they stay out...this time. But if the company and government think legislating workers back to work and imposing a draconian contract will somehow translate to labour peace they are making a massive error in judgement.

Had the government let the negotiation process unfold as it's supposed to there would be freely negotiated contracts in place by now and none of this would be happening.

Sheer stupidity and madness.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... ldcat.html

[Zip Tie]

Time will tell how long they stay out...this time. But if the company and government think legislating workers back to work and imposing a draconian contract will somehow translate to labour peace they are making a massive error in judgement.

Had the government let the negotiation process unfold as it's supposed to there would be freely negotiated contracts in place by now and none of this would be happening.

Sheer stupidity and madness.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... ldcat.html

How correct you are! Why should the Canadian government and Air Canada shut down the airline when the employees can do it quicker themselves.

[Ah_yeah]

I'm a million-miler with AC but just booked WJA for next week's trip. I just can't afford the risk.

Please send a note to Calin Rovinescu and tell him that.

Rockie, that would draw a logical response from CR if this situation was normal. You and I both know that CR and the board are not interested in running an airline. These guys are only here to milk what they can for themselves.
1) Destroy the pension, walk away from their obligation and de-lever the balance sheet...poof, more share appreciation than running a business. The feds are just holding the door open during the robbery.
2) Start and LCC spinoff to create an AVEOS version 2. More money for the shareholders that is totally independant of good business practices. Why run a business when you get richer from gov't sanctioned theft ?

That's the real story folks...and to think the public has the whole thing labeled as greedy union thing ! We aren't even talking about a couple of points in salary to keep pace with inflation. For me, this isn't about money and a new contract anymore. This is about outing the tapeworm that is killing a once proud company.

[EA757]

Zip Tie.
"How correct you are! Why should the Canadian government and Air Canada shut down the airline when the employees can do it quicker themselves."



You mean Calin Rovinescu...
Absolutely.

[Troubleshot]

The pilot group (union) should be standing next to the rampies in this wildcat, along with the AME's. Airline would come to a screeching halt. Then you'd see who had the bargaining power!

[Zip Tie]

Zip Tie.
"How correct you are! Why should the Canadian government and Air Canada shut down the airline when the employees can do it quicker themselves."



You mean Calin Rovinescu...
Absolutely.

LOL......Sorry that's not what I mean.CR is just trying to make honey out of dog poop but even that is futile.
I mean you are all headed for the same thing.Bankruptcy.The employees doing the wildcat thing will just make it happen quicker.
Thats all.....

[EA757]

Zip Tie,

That is what I meant though...

Calin (and the Board) are hiding behind Lisa's dress.
I no longer have any respect for him nor Air Canada, and that
is sad because it was one of the greatest corporations Canada ever had...

[Rockie]

Speaking of Calin, have aliens abducted him or something? He's been a total ghost for weeks now while the airline he "leads" is going down in flames.

He should hand his $5 mil bonus over to Lisa Raitt when he gets the cheque at the end of the month. After all she's been doing all the heavy lifting for him.

[EA757]

Rockie,

I just told you where he was!!!!
He's hiding behind Lisa's dress...

SHEEESH.

[Rockie]

Rockie,

I just told you where he was!!!!
He's hiding behind Lisa's dress...

SHEEESH.

Inspiring leadership for sure. Gives me goose bumps.

[EA757]

You don't have managment, or leadership at Air Canada.

You have opportunists...

[accumulous]

Was it worth it to have a job and not be standing in line at the bottom of somebody's else's seniority list either in this country or in somebody else's country either at the competition's doorstep, or on the doorstep of a new entity?

The reason we have worker's rights in this country is so that our jobs are not hostage to ethically corrupt management's who enrich themselves by beating down their employees. Sadly this government likes workers beaten down. You're mistaken if you think people won't fight back instead of being thankful for any crumb thrown their way.

By the way, the collapse of Canada 3000 had nothing to do with the employees and everything to do with megalomaniac owners whose ego and greed made them abandon a successful business plan.

I've been unemployed before. Next.

Okay.

http://www.jobzilla.ca

Only debating the flip side. Yes Canada 3 had somewhat different circumstances although the reasons are irrelevant to the facts. The bottom line arrives, they fold. Notice how the big foldings all seem to arrive in the same dramatic fashion, as in overnight. They don't take out an ad in MacLeans magazine a month ahead of time. When these things fold there are airplanes all over the world with the park brakes set. It isn't neat and tidy.

See any similarities with any of these situations in the link below? And you have to consider the scenarios in the light that we had in 2003-2004 when AC was bankrupt - and very close to bankruptcy again in 2009. And now publicly declaring the model broken in 2011-2012.

Any similarities in these other examples? Do you not think the competition is coming on hard and fast?

The major airports are showing about a hundred AC cancellations today and untold delays. If you look at hypothetical load factors, that's about 5 mil right there in less than a day.

Just looking at the other side, that's all. You replace CR with somebody else and all of a sudden the competition just spools back to zero? Maybe a replacement would work for free and ask you to do the same thing in order to survive.

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-e ... z1pyoPh3bQ

[tbaylx]

Just looking at the other side, that's all. You replace CR with somebody else and all of a sudden the competition just spools back to zero? Maybe a replacement would work for free and ask you to do the same thing in order to survive.

If any company's employees have to work for free in order for it to survive, then it's done already. I'm just wondering, if AC and other private companies cannot afford to pay DB pension plans anymore, then why am I as a tax payer funding Lisa Raitt's and the other public servants's DB pension plan while we carry a deficit on the national level? Time to start a movement to go to a defined contribution plan for all the elected MP's and other government employees?

[Mig29]

The pilot group (union) should be standing next to the rampies in this wildcat, along with the AME's. Airline would come to a screeching halt. Then you'd see who had the bargaining power!

I agree with you on this 100%!! If there was a momentum here to turn things around and bring the company back to the table - this was this morning/last night! I don't know why are unions not communicating...???

[Rockie]

The bottom line arrives, they fold.

This might surprise you but I don't think Air Canada has any more right to exist as a company than anybody else if they're incapable of being a going concern business. Decades of crown ownership followed by decades more of inexcusable government interference and backroom deals have made Air Canada an instrument of federal government policy, not a successful private corporation. How do you explain a company with a near monopoly losing money ALL THE TIME? How do you explain that company not going out of business?

Doesn't make sense to me, so in my mind there is more going on here than is publicly acknowledged. The far too cozy relationship between Air Canada and the Feds is once again put on display with the way they are colluding in respect of the labour difficulties.

Normal business rules do not apply to Air Canada and never have or they would have been history a long time ago. This is all politics - all the time.

[Rockie]

You don't have managment, or leadership at Air Canada.

After weeks of silence the CEO today put his thoughts in a letter to the employees and it's a doozie.

Hard to figure what he hopes to achieve with it, but anybody who reads it will likely need a stiff drink to calm down.

[EA757]

Rockie,

Can you share it with us without any
repercussions?

[Rockie]

No. Suffice to say that in his view all of the problems are the fault of the employees and the beatings will apparently continue.

[c170b53]

Ah_yeah you da man! Anyone who things CR is sticking around for a measly 5 Mil needs to give their head a shake.
Rockie... I felt like a very baaad employee after reading the letter. I mean really is that the best he could come up with....really?
Accumulous this place may close in a day but it didn't fall apart in a day. The only thing I see at my level is that the manager of manager management likely needs to hire some more management as the managers that are constantly taking over more functions are not delivering the goods.

[EA757]

Rockie,

Thanks.
But, try not to let them wear you down...
You're way too good for that shit.

And my thoughts are with all of Air Canada's people.
You are being taken for such a vicious ride, by a ruthless
and spineless bunch...

[Antique Pilot]

If CR is fired by the AC BOD he gets a severance package of $13 Million. Nice work if you can get it.