Absolutely true.Cat Driver wrote:Yup, isn't it amazing that when we discuss flying in a professional manner all the weirdos stay out of it?
How many different aircraft?
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just curious
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While I was at one point checked on five different machines, I can truthfully say I was only current to the level of comfort on two of those machines. Sadly, it was the other three that I was called on to fly at three AM on holiday weekends.
For the most part, I've been lucky enough to fly one machine almost exclusively for several months at a stretch. During these periods, when I had my aircraft, nobody else flew it. I knew it's strengths and weaknesses, and my engineer knew exactly who hurt and mistreated "his" machine. When somebody moved on, everyone moved up to the next airplane.
Now, I'm current and comfortable on two. No cuecards to remember limitations and idiosyncracies. No I used to know that...
I can get in either type and go anytime, in comfort. I still have it set up so I only fly one particular registration of each at a time.
The middle of the night far from base is not the time to be wondering where the heck is the switch for...
For the most part, I've been lucky enough to fly one machine almost exclusively for several months at a stretch. During these periods, when I had my aircraft, nobody else flew it. I knew it's strengths and weaknesses, and my engineer knew exactly who hurt and mistreated "his" machine. When somebody moved on, everyone moved up to the next airplane.
Now, I'm current and comfortable on two. No cuecards to remember limitations and idiosyncracies. No I used to know that...
I can get in either type and go anytime, in comfort. I still have it set up so I only fly one particular registration of each at a time.The middle of the night far from base is not the time to be wondering where the heck is the switch for...
One of the better threads to grace this website in a long time...
From a "psycho-babble" point of view, there probably is a point at which the memory involved in operating multiple types of aircraft could pose some problems. People just aren't that good at remembering...especially if the types of aircraft require that one remembers information that is easily mixed-up (eg: V-speeds between various aircraft could pose problems - memory items could "interfere" with each other, causing issues). The more similarity in the numbers, the greater the chance of this occurring, although I suppose the less essential it would be that one is "right on" the numbers.
Great point on the BE-55 and BE-58 - I read of an accident where a private owner upgraded to the 58 and promptly yanked his gear up on the ground because he reverted to the "old" position after a stressful landing on the rollout.
Myself, I only fly one type of aircraft right now, and quite frankly..it's enough for me!
From a "psycho-babble" point of view, there probably is a point at which the memory involved in operating multiple types of aircraft could pose some problems. People just aren't that good at remembering...especially if the types of aircraft require that one remembers information that is easily mixed-up (eg: V-speeds between various aircraft could pose problems - memory items could "interfere" with each other, causing issues). The more similarity in the numbers, the greater the chance of this occurring, although I suppose the less essential it would be that one is "right on" the numbers.
Great point on the BE-55 and BE-58 - I read of an accident where a private owner upgraded to the 58 and promptly yanked his gear up on the ground because he reverted to the "old" position after a stressful landing on the rollout.
Myself, I only fly one type of aircraft right now, and quite frankly..it's enough for me!
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Schooner69
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OldTimer posted:
"...but I would like to think I would draw the line on helecopters. Fixed wing and fling wing are just too different."
COMMENT
I've been ambidextrous for years on helicopters and fixed wing. During the last 12 years of my aviation career, I was current on an AStar and single engine/twin engine pistons; twin engine turbo-props; and twin engine jets (dependant on the time frame). At my last job, two of us rotated from fixed to rotary wing....two weeks on the fling wing and two weeks on the frozen wing. Neither of us experienced any difficulty from stepping out of one cockpit to the other.
Now retired, I'd happily relegate myself to just one type if any of you lot will bring it around so I can go up and play
John
"...but I would like to think I would draw the line on helecopters. Fixed wing and fling wing are just too different."
COMMENT
I've been ambidextrous for years on helicopters and fixed wing. During the last 12 years of my aviation career, I was current on an AStar and single engine/twin engine pistons; twin engine turbo-props; and twin engine jets (dependant on the time frame). At my last job, two of us rotated from fixed to rotary wing....two weeks on the fling wing and two weeks on the frozen wing. Neither of us experienced any difficulty from stepping out of one cockpit to the other.
Now retired, I'd happily relegate myself to just one type if any of you lot will bring it around so I can go up and play
John
Every Day Is Saturday
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Panama Jack
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I'd have to say that it a function of experience level on type and how often you fly each type. Also depends on what you define as "safely" . . . safety is a very difficult thing to qualify. Accidents are not an automatic result of each unsafe practice, and accidents are not necessarily result of an unsafe practice.
In my opinion, the worst case scenario is a combination flying complex Transport Category aircraft with little time on type, flying it infrequently, flying an aircraft type which has minor systems differences within a common type (such as those in Hawker 600, 700 and 800 series) and being qualified on more aircraft. For example, I know people who complain that they fly 3 different types of FAR Part 25 aircraft, they have little more than 200 hours on each type, and don't fly more than about 20 or 30 hours a month total. Sometimes they may not fly one of those types for over a month, and sometimes systems are different between the common type. These are guys with 1000's of hours of jet experience and they feel that safety would be compromised IF there were some sort of systems abnormality and they would have to really use the training undergone at FlightSafety or Simuflight (of course when everything is running and all the automation is on-- it's infinitely easier). Most of these guys advocate not being qualified on more than 2 aircraft at any time (I'm talking about Transport Category Aircraft)-- there is less of a problem when jumping from a Cessna 172 into a Piper Warrior. The most ideal situation is being qualified on one aircraft, flying it relatively frequently and receiving the regular recurrent training every 6 months.
In my opinion, the worst case scenario is a combination flying complex Transport Category aircraft with little time on type, flying it infrequently, flying an aircraft type which has minor systems differences within a common type (such as those in Hawker 600, 700 and 800 series) and being qualified on more aircraft. For example, I know people who complain that they fly 3 different types of FAR Part 25 aircraft, they have little more than 200 hours on each type, and don't fly more than about 20 or 30 hours a month total. Sometimes they may not fly one of those types for over a month, and sometimes systems are different between the common type. These are guys with 1000's of hours of jet experience and they feel that safety would be compromised IF there were some sort of systems abnormality and they would have to really use the training undergone at FlightSafety or Simuflight (of course when everything is running and all the automation is on-- it's infinitely easier). Most of these guys advocate not being qualified on more than 2 aircraft at any time (I'm talking about Transport Category Aircraft)-- there is less of a problem when jumping from a Cessna 172 into a Piper Warrior. The most ideal situation is being qualified on one aircraft, flying it relatively frequently and receiving the regular recurrent training every 6 months.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
An old RAF/RCAF tradition I read about was the habit of bomber crews, prior to a night mission and as a good luck charm, would pee on the tailwheel. My original flifht instructor told me that when you really feel comfortable in a maneouver, with a student, in a new airplane, job etc. you pee against the tail(nose) wheel. I do not believe a pilot should be sent out as an aircraft commander in a complex mulit-engine airplane in less than ideal conditions until he/she has peed against the tail(nose) wheel. Either that or have a good reliable co-pilot. It is obvious that pilots like schooner69 has had the training and support that allows him to pee against the wheels/skids of a multitude of aircraft and is probably very safe pilot but some people are better at multi-tasking than others. For the most part, I would like to suggest that 3 different types should be the maximum and a mix of fixed and fling wing be approached with caution.If there is a big mix of differeny types, have a good co-pilot. Corperate aviation is a bit different than the run of the mill charter operator because the corperate operator has a tendency to hire more qualified crews. (Better pay?) How many mulit-taskers are two crew?
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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170 to xray
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Any tricks to suggest/pass along for use when flying multiple types? I used to laminate (OK, tape) small 'cheat-sheets' onto my kneeboard with Vspeeds, fuel capacities and burns, most commonly used power settings for each type, etc., under a column of a different color- usually closely matching the paint scheme of the given type. Worked very well. Most I flew simultaneously was two different light twins, two different singles, and a floater. I have to admit, I felt pretty confident in htose days, but I was young and it may have just been ignorance of how fine I was cutting it!
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
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Cat Driver
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I just managed to get on line finally on a telephone hookup, takes forever to get things.
I' m in London at my partners house on his laptop ( he is not my sexual partner, he is my partner in the warbird business.
)
Anyhow, good to see this discussion going so well.
The limiting factor in comfort and safety when switching from one aircraft to another is very simple.
If you are not comfortable with what you are about to do stop... do not go any further until the reason for your discomfort is identified and corrected.
Like Panama Jack has mentioned some people multi task better than others and we must each decide where our limits are...
...and of course as we get more exposure we become more capable of multi tasking through repetetion.
The human brain is a complex thing and is capable of infinate storage of information, where the problems come into the equasion with aircraft is the time frame between repetition of each task.
Anyhow I'm jet lagged again and am rambling so I'll hit the enter key now on this post.
Cat
I' m in London at my partners house on his laptop ( he is not my sexual partner, he is my partner in the warbird business.
)Anyhow, good to see this discussion going so well.
The limiting factor in comfort and safety when switching from one aircraft to another is very simple.
If you are not comfortable with what you are about to do stop... do not go any further until the reason for your discomfort is identified and corrected.
Like Panama Jack has mentioned some people multi task better than others and we must each decide where our limits are...
...and of course as we get more exposure we become more capable of multi tasking through repetetion.
The human brain is a complex thing and is capable of infinate storage of information, where the problems come into the equasion with aircraft is the time frame between repetition of each task.
Anyhow I'm jet lagged again and am rambling so I'll hit the enter key now on this post.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
