Transport Canada's mandate is safety and not how many skilled or unskilled workers come to Canada seasonally or permanently.






















Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Transport Canada's mandate is safety and not how many skilled or unskilled workers come to Canada seasonally or permanently.
. . wrote:Transport Canada's mandate is safety and not how many skilled or unskilled workers come to Canada seasonally or permanently.![]()
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I guess the answer is, they can't.Why is it that anyone who doesn't agree with you is unfit to work in this industry? The first thing to come out of you in a defence is hours flown . As if it's some sort of undignified blasphemy to question anything you present. I personally cannot challenge you via hours nor do I claim to know more about certain things. As a matter of fact, I think it would be fun to have my ass handed to me by you during a lesson. I'm sure I could learn something. But besides all that...
When can someone ever disagree with you on virtually everything and remain credible?
I knew that would be your reaction before I even finished typing it .. I wrote that it is their mandate. I did not say whether I think it is being upheld or not. It is not TC's job to determine who are entitled to work in Canada or not. It is not TC's job to tell Sunwing and Canjet they have to many foreign pilots flying for them. You would have to put forth evidence that it is an unsafe practice for TC to get involved. That would be a tough sell as I would argue that European Licensing Standards are at the very least equivalent to the ones we have in Canada.. . wrote:Transport Canada's mandate is safety and not how many skilled or unskilled workers come to Canada seasonally or permanently.
Transport's role is to uphold the CARs. Whatever they are.RogerCheckCopy wrote:I knew that would be your reaction before I even finished typing it .. I wrote that it is their mandate. I did not say whether I think it is being upheld or not. It is not TC's job to determine who are entitled to work in Canada or not. It is not TC's job to tell Sunwing and Canjet they have to many foreign pilots flying for them. You would have to put forth evidence that it is an unsafe practice for TC to get involved. That would be a tough sell as I would argue that European Licensing Standards are at the very least equivalent to the ones we have in Canada.. . wrote:Transport Canada's mandate is safety and not how many skilled or unskilled workers come to Canada seasonally or permanently.
. . wrote:My reason for posting the rolling laughing similes was simple.
Transports mandate is to avoid any possible accountability at any level, the main objective is to end up with an excellent pension after they retire and then double dip in the industry using their former background as collateral.
The CAR's were written so complex with so many subsections that not even lawyers can interpret them .....they were written to be flexible.
However I could be wrong that is for sure.
To fly as pilots for a 705 operator, you need to have a licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV.Pilot Qualifications
705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV;
4)(3) An air operator may permit a person to act and a person may act as the pilot-in-command or second-in-command of an aircraft where the person does not meet the requirements of subsection (1), if
(a) the aircraft is operated on a training, ferry or positioning flight; or
(b) the air operator
(i) is authorized to do so in its air operator certificate, and
(ii) complies with the Commercial Air Service Standards.
6)725.106 Pilot Qualifications
725.106 (6) Use of a Person not Qualified in Accordance with the Canadian Aviation Regulations to Act as Pilot-in-Command or Second-in-Command (refers to subparagraph 705.106(3)(b)(ii) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations)
Authority may be given for other than an air operator employee pilot to occupy a flight crew seat when training, conducting line indoctrination training, and while the first air operator flight crews are completing consolidation and crew pairing minimum flight time requirements on a new aeroplane type.
The pilot shall:
(a) provide a resume, proof of background on the type of aeroplane, and recent experience appropriate to the training to be given; and
(b) hold the appropriate licence, ratings and endorsements. Where the pilot holds a foreign pilot licence, the licence and (as applicable) the instrument rating shall be validated by Transport Canada - Civil Aviation.
The pilot may be authorized to conduct pilot checks provided the requirements of the Company Check Pilot Manual (TP6533) are met with the exception of the minimum employment time with the air operator.
A foreign licensed pilot may be granted authority for training and checking only when a Canadian licensed pilot is not available.
During revenue flights foreign licensed pilots shall not replace Canadian licensed pilots. They can act as qualified pilot in replacement of a training pilot where the training pilot is authorized to occupy the jump seat for the purpose of crew pairing requirements (section 725.108) or transition line indoctrination (subsection 725.124(33)).
8 )401.07 (1) Subject to section 6.71 of the Act, if the holder of a foreign flight crew licence issued by a contracting state other than Canada meets the applicable requirements set out in the personnel licensing standards and does not reside in Canada, the Minister shall, on receipt of an application submitted in the form and manner set out in those standards, issue a foreign licence validation certificate to the holder of the licence.
(2) The Minister shall, in accordance with the personnel licensing standards, specify in a foreign licence validation certificate the privileges that may be exercised by the holder of the certificate.
10)(1) Issue of Foreign Licence Validation Certificate
(a) A Foreign Licence Validation Certificate shall be issued to an applicant who provides the following:
(i) a foreign licence valid under the laws of a contracting state and valid for the privileges requested; and
(ii) a letter requesting issue of the Foreign Licence Validation Certificate and specifying the purpose for which the foreign licence is to be validated.
(b) The Foreign Licence Validation Certificate shall normally be issued for a period of one year from the date of issue. A shorter period may be granted upon the applicant’s request.
(c) If the medical validity period of the licence issued by a contracting state other than Canada is longer than the ICAO standard, the validation shall be limited to Canadian airspace.
(2) Purposes For Which Foreign Licence Validation Certificates May Be Issued
(a) for the holder to undergo a flight test;
(b) for private recreational flying;
(c) for ferry of an aircraft registered in Canada to or from a foreign country;
(d) for the holder to give type rating training on an aircraft registered in Canada to the registered owner, or to Canadian flight crew employed by the registered owner;
(e) for the holder to receive training in a Canadian registered aircraft;
(f) for operation of aircraft registered in a foreign state under the operating certificate of a Canadian carrier provided that the privileges are limited to the type of aircraft being operated;
(g) for operation of Canadian aircraft on Canadian commercial air services in urgent circumstances; such as fire suppression operations, emergency agricultural and forestry aerial application, airlift in relief of domestic natural disasters, and search and rescue operations;
(h) for commercial air services operated entirely within a foreign country where pilots holding a licence from that country may have their licence validated for operation of Canadian registered aircraft in that country;
(i) for the operation of aircraft registered in Canada on lease to foreign carriers;
(j) for reasons other than those mentioned above where approval may be given if, in the opinion of the Minister, it is in the public interest and not likely to affect aviation safety.
17)401.03(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall act as a flight crew member or exercise the privileges of a flight crew permit, licence or rating unless
(a) the person holds the appropriate permit, licence or rating;
(b) the permit, licence or rating is valid;
(c) the person holds the appropriate medical certificate; and
(d) the person can produce the permit, licence or rating, and the certificate, when exercising those privileges.
(1.1) No person shall exercise the privileges of a foreign licence validation certificate unless the person
(a) holds the appropriate foreign licence validation certificate;
(b) has signed the certificate; and
(c) can produce the certificate when exercising those privileges.
(2) A person who holds a military flight crew permit, licence or rating or a flight crew permit, licence or rating issued by a contracting state other than Canada may act as a flight crew member or exercise the privileges of a flight crew permit, licence or rating for the sole purpose of the person's flight test where
(a) the test is conducted in accordance with section 401.15; and
(b) no passenger other than the person referred to in paragraph 401.15(1)(a) is carried on board the aircraft.
Really ?Monsieur XXX YYY
Monsieur,
Je donne suite à votre courriel du 22 novembre dernier concernant le recours par certains transporteurs aériens canadiens à des pilotes étrangers.
En premier lieu, permettez-moi de préciser que je partage vos préoccupations sur cette question. Je sais que plusieurs transporteurs canadiens choisissent d’avoir recours à des pilotes et à des aéronefs étrangers pour faire face à la demande plus élevée durant la haute saison. Transports Canada est responsable de la politique en matière de location d’aéronefs avec équipage, et les responsables du Ministère examinent actuellement cette pratique afin d’établir des directives à ce chapitre. Durant cet examen, le Ministère maintiendra un dialogue ouvert avec les intervenants de l’industrie du transport aérien au Canada.
J’aimerais également souligner que la responsabilité de Transports Canada dans ce secteur consiste à veiller à la sécurité du système d’aviation canadien en validant les licences des pilotes étrangers. Le recours à des pilotes étrangers au Canada se fait par l’intermédiaire de programmes qui relèvent de la ministre des Ressources humaines et du Développement des compétences, l’honorable Diane Finley, ainsi que du ministre de la Citoyenneté, de l’Immigration et du Multiculturalisme, l’honorable Jason Kenney. J’ai donc pris la liberté de leur transmettre une copie de votre correspondance afin qu’ils répondent à vos préoccupations.
Je vous remercie de m’avoir transmis vos commentaires à ce sujet et je vous prie d’agréer, Monsieur, l’assurance de mes meilleurs sentiments.
Denis Lebel, C.P., député
c.c. L’honorable Diane Finley, C.P., députée
Ministre des Ressources humaines et du Développement
des compétences
L’honorable Jason Kenney, C.P., député
Ministre de la Citoyenneté, de l’Immigration et du Multiculturalisme
Pilot Qualifications
705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV;
Oh we will agree, trust me, because I had the exact same reservations in the beginning. Until I understood it. And here is the explanation.RogerCheckCopy wrote:We are probably never going to agree but I still say your argument as presented would not hold any water in court.
The way I am reading it is that if a foreign license has been validated under Part IV, you are legal under 705.106(1) so there is no point in looking at 705.106(3).
No, line flying for a commercial operator is not listed under 421.07 nor does it have to be as 421.07(j) starts with "for reasons other than those listed above". I know you don't like it but let's face it, how do you think a judge would rule if someone argued in court that a seasonal need is one of those reasons? You are probably right when saying it was not the intent of the rule(s) as the lawyers that wrote those rules probably did not predict or envision the situation we are currently in. I would venture to guess that one or more of the TC staff that sent you written answers would have consulted with lawyers to get an interpretation before providing an answer.
[/quote]unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings, endorsements or a Foreign Licence Validation required by Part IV;
"Where the pilots holds a foreign pilot's licence, the licence and as applicable the instrument ration shall be validated by Transport Canada"(6) Use of a Person not Qualified in Accordance with the Canadian Aviation Regulations to Act as Pilot-in-Command or Second-in-Command (refers to subparagraph 705.106(3)(b)(ii) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations)
Authority may be given for other than an air operator employee pilot to occupy a flight crew seat when training, conducting line indoctrination training, and while the first air operator flight crews are completing consolidation and crew pairing minimum flight time requirements on a new aeroplane type.
The pilot shall:
(a) provide a resume, proof of background on the type of aeroplane, and recent experience appropriate to the training to be given; and
(b) hold the appropriate licence, ratings and endorsements. Where the pilot holds a foreign pilot licence, the licence and (as applicable) the instrument rating shall be validated by Transport Canada - Civil Aviation.
And so do 703.88705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV;
and 704.108Flight Crew Member Qualifications
703.88 (1) Subject to subsections (6) and (7), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as a flight crew member in an aircraft unless the person
(amended 2000/02/01; previous version)
(a) holds the licence and ratings required by Part IV;
To conclude, 703.88, 704,108 and 705.106 put together forbid the use of foreign liceced pilots in Canada for Air Taxi, Commuter and Airline Operations. Period.704.108 (1) Subject to subsection (6), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as a flight crew member in an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence and ratings required by Part IV;
Sunwing has about 250 foreign pilots. If a type rating costs $30 k thats 7.5 million right there.ourkid2000 wrote:I have a quick question about this one.
What are the cost savings in using these foreign pilots? Is it really that much cheaper to use these people? Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I didn't see it in this thread yet.
Cheers!