Professional Recognition Sought For Pilots

[KK7]

KK7, aren't pilots overpaid on average then? If it takes no thinking skills to fly a plane, shouldn't pilots be paid more closely to carpenters, ranging generally $35-70k, or even less, considering that there's a huge oversupply of pilots.

So if it takes so little thinking skills and education to become a pilot, why am I, as a paying passenger, spending so much of my money supporting pilot's bloated salaries, where many, especially at WJA and ACA, are earning well into the six figures?

If all that's required of flying a plane is

Pilots mainly fly the aircraft through manual skills, pushing buttons and following procedures. There is very little analytical problem solving and critical thinking involved. There might be the occasional need to bring in such skills in an unusual emergency, but these times are rare, and we are certainly not educated to do so.

couldn't anyone do it. Why am I paying such high prices for an obviously unnecessarily high paid employee.

Would you be surprised to hear that most plumbers and electricians get paid more than pilots? Many can make more as a truck driver.

What you get paid has nothing to do with level of education. It depends on what you have to offer and how many others are able to offer the same thing.

There are a lot of pilots out there = we get paid less. It doesn't get any more complex than that. As you suggested, although in jest, anyone can do it with the proper training.

[MUSKEG]

So you mean to tell me that there are less truck drivers, plumbers, or electricians than pilots? What we get paid to fly is a direct result of decades of pilots being willing to PAY TO FLY. Ive never heard of a truck driver or a plumber working for free. If pilots got paid by responsibility where do you think that salary should be?

[Gino Under]

Professionalism to my way of thinking is as much what you do as it is in how you do it. Attitude, dedication and ethics combined in an approach to work will always set you apart from those in the same line of work who merely work to bring home a buck.

Society has its mind pretty much conditioned as to what is and what isn’t viewed as a profession and I believe by the very nature of piloting an aircraft, pilots are viewed by society as professional.

Is a butler a professional? A taxi driver? A singing artist? A janitor?
What about a hockey player or football player? A university professor? Television cameraman?
For me, it depends on their approach to the job. For you, you probably have your own ideas.

Is it income that draws the line between professional and non-professional?

Sidney Crosby’s income is more than that of the average heart surgeon yet one professional is needed more by society than the other. It’s certainly an income greater than the most senior Captains at British Airways, Emirates, Cathay or Air Canada. But it doesn’t mean one is any more or any less professional in their work than the other.

A professional society in my estimation is not a labour union nor would I expect it to be. But, I would expect that society to come up with an industry wage scale for any number of flying jobs in Canada. It probably shouldn’t be responsible for issuing professional licences either but, I would think at some point, it should have a say in what standards are required for the issuance of those licences. It should also have the ability to go after operators who abuse the professional pilots in their employ or even after the pilots themselves for putting themselves or the lives of their passengers in peril.

In the end it should be whatever YOU imagine a professional pilot society should be and how you think it should operate. This is the basis for a discussion and the very reason why you should be joining to help develop a society that works for everyone’s benefit. Especially YOURS!

For sixty bucks, join. Then let the bun fight begin.

Gino Under

P.S.

"There are a lot of pilots out there = we get paid less. It doesn't get any more complex than that. As you suggested, although in jest, anyone can do it with the proper training."

Sorry to burst a bubble but, no, not even with the best training, there are those who simply can not fly.

[mbav8r]

Thanks Gino, very well said, it will be how we as members shape it to be.
It will be a long uphill battle when we have members of the profession talking about how anyone can do it and all we do is press a button, get a piece of cheese or,
Airline Pilot = Bus Briver
Corporate Pilot = Limo Driver
Charter Pilot = Taxi Driver
Cargo Pilot = Truck Driver
Helicopter Pilot = Heavy Equipment Operator
I have news for you, I have a class 1 and have many, many mind numbing hours behind the wheel of a truck, it took me a week to get my licence and the next day I was off driving down the road with a load of freight, two weeks later I was driving through the B.C mountains, so you don't deserve to be a pilot if you even remotely think the above are comparable, not even close!

As you suggested, although in jest, anyone can do it with the proper training."

how many times has someone mentioned they started with a class of 30 and 12 made it through, of those 12, 3 are flying or ever heard the term "career FO" basically a seat filler, they have the licence and experience but no one will cut them loose because they are plain and simply scary. Nope not anyone can do it

[Chuck Ellsworth]

how many times has someone mentioned they started with a class of 30 and 12 made it through, of those 12, 3 are flying or ever heard the term "career FO" basically a seat filler, they have the licence and experience but no one will cut them loose because they are plain and simply scary. Nope not anyone can do it

So maybe the training and testing requirements should be more demanding?

[Gino Under]

FWIW, and I quote...

"What is a profession?

...and who are the professionals are questions which seem to require clarification in the new context of an industrial society with its complex division of labour. If everyone is a professional, the term loses its meaning. Even now the professionals find themselves surrounded by semi- or quasi-professionals, with each group denying the validity of the professional status of the other.

Some writers indicate that professional people are being so assimilated into the bureaucratic context of white-collar work that they may lose, indeed have lost their identity, along with a sense of responsibility and moral integrity that has characterized professions in the past. Another part of the problem is the rise of personnel engaged in the same or similar work who do not have the training that the professionals have had. When this occurs in the same organization, morale tends to be low and loyalty diffused.
There are many ways of defining a profession. The simplest and most comprehensive was enumerated by William J. Goode, sociologist.

We should think of occupations as falling somewhere along a continuum of professionalism. The core characteristics are a prolonged specialized training in a body of abstract knowledge, and a collectivity or service orientation. As an occupation becomes more professionalized, it acquires several features which may be viewed as sociologically derivative from the two just noted. These include the following traits:
1. The profession determines its own standards of education and training.
2. The student professional goes through a more far-reaching adult socialization experience than the learner in other occupations.
3. Professional practice is often legally recognized by some form of licensing.
4. Licensing and admission boards are manned by members of the profession.
6. The occupation gains in income, power, and prestige ranking, and can demand higher caliber students.
7. The practitioner is relatively free of lay evaluation and control.
8. The norms of practice enforced by the profession are more stringent than legal controls.
9. Members are more strongly identified and affilitated with the profession than are members of other occupations with theirs.
10. The profession is more likely to be a terminal occupation. Members do not care to leave it, and a higher proportion assert that if they had it to do over again, they would again choose that...work."

just thought I'd like to share that with you,
Gino

[KK7]

As you suggested, although in jest, anyone can do it with the proper training."

how many times has someone mentioned they started with a class of 30 and 12 made it through, of those 12, 3 are flying or ever heard the term "career FO" basically a seat filler, they have the licence and experience but no one will cut them loose because they are plain and simply scary. Nope not anyone can do it

Are you saying that anyone who attempts to fly, but moves onto something else, only does so because they don't have the potential to be a good pilot? I'm sorry, I don't kid myself. I love my job, nothing like it, I have lots of pride in it, but it isn't a difficult job. The tough part was getting to where I am in the industry through perseverance and avoiding dodgy operators. Having spent many years teaching flying, I'll admit there were maybe a couple of people who did not have the ability to learn to fly, but they were so far and few between.

In my experience most people with poor skills or who are scary, are victims of poor training. It's no secret that the ab initio training side of our industry in Canada is not up to snuff. Sadly, this is where a lot of bad habits tend to get introduced and what you learn first tends to stick with you.

[shimmydampner]

Pilots mainly fly the aircraft through manual skills, pushing buttons and following procedures. There is very little analytical problem solving and critical thinking involved.

Despite the drive in certain areas of aviation towards blind adherence to SOP's, there are still many pilot jobs out there requiring those skills. They're often the fun ones.

[DonutHole]

So, does the guy that smokes up a big doobe before a flight considered a professional? Are people that think it's okay to do drugs in their time off considered professional?

I think those questions are more important than the "is he willing to work for less". They are far more fundamental to the professionalism and ethical behaviour of a person....

The sad fact is that anybody (and I mean, ANYBODY) can be a commercial pilot. With enough money, you will eventually pass your flight test. Does it mean you are a good pilot? Does it mean you will make good decisions? Nope.. It just means you had enough money to buy your way to being a pilot.

What we need, before we even think about considering ourselves professionals, is a standard that is set and adhered to. Can't make it? Too bad, so sad buttercup.

There are already standards set which need to be adhered to to become a commercial pilot, these standards are dictated by TC.

Why do we need MORE bureaucracy? I am really worried about the 'standards' the college will look to impose on the industry. To me, this is simply a certain group of individuals looking to impose their ideals and once recognized will use these ideals to limit access to the field, thus limiting supply thereby raising the wages.

My question is, once this organization is in charge of standards, what happens to all of those pilots working with a CPL issued under TC that doesn't meet the extended standards imposed by the college, are they to be grandfathered in.

From the original quoted article:

He said it would be open to anyone with a commercial license or higher.

As long as they meet the standards, which are as yet to be defined. So as it sits, we have an organization which wants nothing to do with licensing, only standards, but the group is open to anybody with a CPL or higher, which are licenses, which they want nothing to do with, which are issued by transport Canada.

How logically then, are they going to impose standards if the group is open to ANY CPL? The only standard they could impose with that particular model is that you need a CPL... so then, why exactly is the college needed? IF they aren't going to take care of the licensing and they are going to let anybody in who meets TC standards... it just doesn't make sense.

I don't believe that a private organization should be allowed to set wages across the board for operators in Canada. I believe that is communist and anti free-market. There is already an avenue available to those specific groups wishing to accomplish this goal, and that is unionization, which includes collective bargaining. A heavy handed one sided approach by an external entity is an unacceptable solution when it comes to wage standards.

The College has no interest in issuing licences or developing regulations, and consequently views Transport Canada and ICAO as key partners. The College does however aspire to maintain the standards and calibre of professional pilots on behalf of, or in conjunction with, Transport Canada. This is indeed a complex endeavour and many details remain to be finalized.

Six of one half dozen of the other. They don't want to be involved in licensing, but they want to be in charge of the standards required to exercise the privilege of that license. It is an end run around the knee jerk negative reaction which comes with having an external entity actually controlling the issuance of the licenses.

I don't necessarily buy the line that they don't want to be involved in licensing anyways. Quoted from the original article:

Machum said its principal functions would be pilot certification

What does this mean if not licensing. A commercial pilots license, and then an ATPL *IS* the certification... they are also the licenses. So which is it, do they want to be involved in the licensing or don't they? This is the kind of contradiction that scares me as it seems disingenuous to claim that they don't want to be involved in the licensing but the want to be involved in the certification. They way it sits RIGHT NOW, it is impossible to determine which direction the college wants to take their mandate. With that kind of open ended ambiguity it is very easy for them to claim one thing and then do another... Not a fan.

[AuxBatOn]

When you can buy your way to a CPL, this isn't a standard.

As for the ATPL, flight hours are not a measure of how good of a pilot you are and how suited you are to command a transport aircraft.

[5x5]

+1 Donuthole.

This seems to me to be only about limiting supply to up the wages. Trying to tie all the problems in aviation to poor ab initio training is ridiculous in the extreme. But it makes it easier for those already employed to refuse to accept any responsibility since they're passed that stage. If there is actually a systemic problem in aviation, look at the operators that run the oft referred to "dodgy" companies and the people that continue to work for them. You want to certify something and improve standards, that would be the place to start.

How often are there threads warning about the evils of working for bad companies but there is never, or rarely, a name(s) attached. Other than vague admonitions, how is a newb supposed to know who is good and who is bad? Guidance on this would be a much more effective place to start.

As it stands, a union by any other name..........

[Driving Rain]

How about rating system for ALL operators? The criteria of which should include past transgressions. Banks and insurers have risk assessments for everyone including corporations. I would hope that a College of Proffessional Pilots would think long and hard about developing in implementing one.

[Expat]

In this day and age of government backing away from close monitoring of adherence to standards, and delegating self policing standards, like in the case of SMS, the idea of a professional body representing pilots may just fly. It could start as college, or whatever it is named, like the associations representing real estate agents, dentists, engineers, and evolve...
My two cents...

[loopy]

Professionalism to my way of thinking is as much what you do as it is in how you do it. Attitude, dedication and ethics combined in an approach to work will always set you apart from those in the same line of work who merely work to bring home a buck.

Society has its mind pretty much conditioned as to what is and what isn’t viewed as a profession and I believe by the very nature of piloting an aircraft, pilots are viewed by society as professional.

Is a butler a professional? A taxi driver? A singing artist? A janitor?
What about a hockey player or football player? A university professor? Television cameraman?
For me, it depends on their approach to the job. For you, you probably have your own ideas.

Is it income that draws the line between professional and non-professional?

Sidney Crosby’s income is more than that of the average heart surgeon yet one professional is needed more by society than the other. It’s certainly an income greater than the most senior Captains at British Airways, Emirates, Cathay or Air Canada. But it doesn’t mean one is any more or any less professional in their work than the other.

A professional society in my estimation is not a labour union nor would I expect it to be. But, I would expect that society to come up with an industry wage scale for any number of flying jobs in Canada. It probably shouldn’t be responsible for issuing professional licences either but, I would think at some point, it should have a say in what standards are required for the issuance of those licences. It should also have the ability to go after operators who abuse the professional pilots in their employ or even after the pilots themselves for putting themselves or the lives of their passengers in peril.

In the end it should be whatever YOU imagine a professional pilot society should be and how you think it should operate. This is the basis for a discussion and the very reason why you should be joining to help develop a society that works for everyone’s benefit. Especially YOURS!

For sixty bucks, join. Then let the bun fight begin.

Gino Under

P.S.

"There are a lot of pilots out there = we get paid less. It doesn't get any more complex than that. As you suggested, although in jest, anyone can do it with the proper training."

Sorry to burst a bubble but, no, not even with the best training, there are those who simply can not fly.

Gino, I agree with you on the "professional society" part. I don't think we need to be getting involved in licensing. I think we need an industry wide professional association that lobbies on behalf of pilots and the profession, like ATAC and other groups do for other sectors in our industry. We can lobby for better safety standards and pay standards. Put pressure on scad operators, maybe by rating them. Lobby for more funding to have appropriate staffing at TC so they can audit and deal with those breaking the rules. TC is the regulator and and supervises licensing. We don't need something else. They do need to be appropriately staffed. We can support that. We can promote professional codes of conduct for our members and expect if of employers.

Same old soap box I'm on again.

[x-wind]

No no, lobbying and applying ratings to companies is not anything concrete & is would end up being such a subjective process; it'll never unite, better educate or empower pilots. We need something that has the power to measurably make changes. Like setting the standards for commercial/airline pilot training both ab-initial & recurrent.

The training for attaining & retaining a CPL isn't in line with being the best place in the world to fly commercially.

A rating system sounds pretty draconian to me. I feel implementing a system like that is perhaps unethical, I'll have to reflect more on it.

[Gear Jerker]

I really don't understand why so many of you try so hard to belittle your own profession.

The common claim of how easy flying is serves as a good starting point. Are you talking about a routine day where nothing goes wrong? Fine, a professional did his job, and didn't find an average day to be terribly overwhelming.
I think we can all agree that Surgeons, Dentists, Engineers, and Lawyers are all professionals, by definition. Do you think that they go home after every day of work feeling a tremendous sense of relief that they managed to pull it off? Do you think that on an average day they feel a sense of panic and doubt as they go through their tasks? No. They do what they've trained to do, and they have years of experience in doing, and while it takes focus, a routine day probably feels pretty manageable - shouldn't it? They are professionals, after all.
What the f### is the relevance of how hard/easy a PROFESSIONAL pilot finds their job to be after years of experience, to the true difficulty/barrier to entry of the job?

Obviously you don't need to do an undergraduate degree, then a masters, then some type of professional schooling (med/law, etc), to become a professional pilot.

For argument's sake, would everybody agree that if any pilot is to be considered professional, it would be an airline captain?

To be a Canadian airline captain, these days (more often than not), you go to an aviation college or university, and earn a degree or diploma. After, or concurrently, you earn a CPL and MIFR (at minimum). From this point, everybody has their own path but I've heard that 7-8 years is a pretty good average time from CPL to WJ/AC etc new hire. From this point, 5-10 years to become an airline captain. So, let's say that on average, 15 years after getting a CPL one becomes an airline captain. And, after 15 years of experience they find a routine day to be pretty easy - shouldn't they??

So if it takes 15 years to become an airline captain, how is that comparable to any of the BS comparisons mentioned, like bus driver, plumber, truck driver, welder, carpenter, etc? Are you kidding me? Do any of these trades require knowledge of Meteorology, Aerodynamics, Piston/Turbine engines, hydraulic/pneumatic/electrical systems, IFR and VFR navigation/rules/ops, Air Law, etc (could go on and on), and have to put it all together on a daily basis year after year, and make it look easy, and constantly increase their knowledge in all areas as they go along?
If that doesn't meet the criteria of a professional, I have no idea what does, aside from the designation itself.

[mbav8r]

cspurr32, that is the absolute best response I've ever heard to someone belittling our profession.
Plus 1
KK7, those were two seperate points, it takes a certain personality which includes perseverance to
make it and then there's the scary ones, not anyone can do this.

[cncpc]

I really don't understand why so many of you try so hard to belittle your own profession.

The common claim of how easy flying is serves as a good starting point. Are you talking about a routine day where nothing goes wrong? Fine, a professional did his job, and didn't find an average day to be terribly overwhelming.
I think we can all agree that Surgeons, Dentists, Engineers, and Lawyers are all professionals, by definition. Do you think that they go home after every day of work feeling a tremendous sense of relief that they managed to pull it off? Do you think that on an average day they feel a sense of panic and doubt as they go through their tasks? No. They do what they've trained to do, and they have years of experience in doing, and while it takes focus, a routine day probably feels pretty manageable - shouldn't it? They are professionals, after all.
What the f### is the relevance of how hard/easy a PROFESSIONAL pilot finds their job to be after years of experience, to the true difficulty/barrier to entry of the job?

Obviously you don't need to do an undergraduate degree, then a masters, then some type of professional schooling (med/law, etc), to become a professional pilot.

For argument's sake, would everybody agree that if any pilot is to be considered professional, it would be an airline captain?

To be a Canadian airline captain, these days (more often than not), you go to an aviation college or university, and earn a degree or diploma. After, or concurrently, you earn a CPL and MIFR (at minimum). From this point, everybody has their own path but I've heard that 7-8 years is a pretty good average time from CPL to WJ/AC etc new hire. From this point, 5-10 years to become an airline captain. So, let's say that on average, 15 years after getting a CPL one becomes an airline captain. And, after 15 years of experience they find a routine day to be pretty easy - shouldn't they??

So if it takes 15 years to become an airline captain, how is that comparable to any of the BS comparisons mentioned, like bus driver, plumber, truck driver, welder, carpenter, etc? Are you kidding me? Do any of these trades require knowledge of Meteorology, Aerodynamics, Piston/Turbine engines, hydraulic/pneumatic/electrical systems, IFR and VFR navigation/rules/ops, Air Law, etc (could go on and on), and have to put it all together on a daily basis year after year, and make it look easy, and constantly increase their knowledge in all areas as they go along?
If that doesn't meet the criteria of a professional, I have no idea what does, aside from the designation itself.

I just want to make this comment after the events of last weekend and the marijuana poll and the marijuana question threads.

It has to do with the title of College, not so much the issue of profession. It is Dentists, and Doctors mainly that belong to a College in the sense we are talking about. There is a certain presumption of intellect that attaches to a College's members, a presumption of maturity and social grace and presence, an organization with respect for diversity and diverse views and a desire to learn and adapt away from old, wrong ideas to produce a better practice of a profession.

I participated in the marijuana poll thread. I participated in the marijuana question thread. In a collegiate sort of way. I took exception to a despicable cowardly attack on Robert Piche. I, and many others, commented on how quickly the poll turned from asking a rather clear cut question to inferring that anybody who responded one way was higher than a kite flying airplanes. There was not even a remote chance that anyone would learn from the more astute comments made and change their view and themselves and participate in the pilot collective in a better and smarter way. It was all about winning arguments at any cost, including barefaced lying, and some of those who bellered loudest beller loudest for the College.

I thought WTF! These people, and I mean a minority, would be hard pressed to form a Pool Hall of Professional Pilots. There were psychological defects on display, personality defects, narcissism, self validation, immaturity, incoherence, and Reefer Madness evident with every third or fourth post. One guy got pissed off about Shakespeare. Another guy goes from a lecturing, moralizing police officer to a petulant child making up fantasy characters out of the poster he saw as popping his balloon. And on and on. I felt like Randall P. MacMurphy in that scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest where he is outside a room looking in on the other inmates gibbering at each other at a card game and throwing cigarettes around and generally acting the maggot, and where McMurphy finally opens up a spraydown hose and lets them have it.

I thought, for Christ sakes, this College thing is absurd. These are the members, in front of me, assembled in formation. Some of these people are nutjobs, and they become very angry when their notjobishness is exposed or commented on. And they want me to join a College, be compelled to join a College, with them as my distinguished colleagues. When I think a high pressure spray hose would be an appropriate response to both their idiotic views and attitudes.

I still maintain an open mind on the College as it could potentially be moulded. But if there is a chance that it will go ahead, and I remain opposed to it, I am going to contact each member of Parliament and provide them with a link to those two threads from the weekend. I will ask them to read every post, and consider that amongst the reasonable, intelligent posters are some who make the idea of a College including them an absurd joke. I can't imagine that any legislator would look at those threads and say, "Right, what I see here is a group of people deserving of the title of College for their governing body."

What's next? A College of Mudrasslers?

[Gear Jerker]

cncpc; your points are well taken.

I would only challenge/question what percentage a few bonehead posters here comprise of the greater college membership. If it's a single digit percentage, then it is probably comparable to what you find in any profession, or trade, which is the odd moron who you can't believe has gotten to where they are, acting the way they do.
I have no doubt that in general, present day professionals like doctors, engineers, etc do conduct themselves in a more professional manner than most, however I think that it would be naive to assume that there are no bad apples. I know of a few individuals who's conduct outside of work is, to say the least, very unbecoming of the title they hold. There is definitely the odd one who doesn't conduct themselves very well but somehow manages to get by in their field.
Perhaps this is naive on my part, but I like to think that a few avcanada posters don't represent a majority of potential college members.

[mbav8r]

cncpc, at work we call that the 5% rule, as in, in any group of people you'll find 5% of them are complete idiots. It gives a guy something to strive for, to be part of the 95%. I believe a code of conduct won't get rid of the 5%, it will define them.
I would also bet that 80% of the 5% are on AVCANADA, just from things I've read in the past, hopefully nothing I've posted would put me in there.
According to wikipedia, At the end of 2008 there were 64,932 Canadian licences and permits held, 5% of that is 3246.

[LousyFisherman]

So if it takes 15 years to become an airline captain, how is that comparable to any of the BS comparisons mentioned, like bus driver, plumber, truck driver, welder, carpenter, etc? Are you kidding me? Do any of these trades require knowledge of Meteorology, Aerodynamics, Piston/Turbine engines, hydraulic/pneumatic/electrical systems, IFR and VFR navigation/rules/ops, Air Law, etc (could go on and on), and have to put it all together on a daily basis year after year, and make it look easy, and constantly increase their knowledge in all areas as they go along?
If that doesn't meet the criteria of a professional, I have no idea what does, aside from the designation itself.

Are you kidding me? An electrician builds electrical systems. A mechanic repairs turbines.
Try becoming a city bus driver, how much experience do you think you need?

Do you think the Electrical Code is less complex than Air Law?
Do you think a knowledge of metallurgy is required for a welder? Do you think that is easy to acquire?

Your comments demonstrate your ignorance. Professionals are supposed to know the limits of their knowledge and admit when the question is outside their domain.

Flame away

LF

[Liquid Charlie]

at what point in time could we deem a pilot as being a professional - of course if you can call an NHL player a professional maybe it should just be based on pay cheques - now we have gone full circle --

[whodareswins]

Try becoming a city bus driver, how much experience do you think you need?

None. Absolutely none.

And at the TTC it's $23.59 an hour plus benefits and a pension.

http://www.ttc.ca/Jobs/transit_operator ... itment.jsp

That's a better package than what Encore is offering FOs.

[mbav8r]

Are you kidding me? An electrician builds electrical systems.

Well considering, you or I can wire our own house and I have done my own wiring, then get a inspector or electrician to inspect for code. And here it is, all 41 pages of it.
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/customer_service ... l_code.pdf

Try becoming a city bus driver, how much experience do you think you need?

http://www.calgarytransit.com/career/tr ... ining.html
The Calgary Transit Training Program is approximately four weeks (21 business days) long.

Transit Operator Job Requirements

An ideal candidate for the position of Transit Operator position must possess the following minimum requirements:

Full Alberta Class 5 Operator’s License (No GDL - graduated driver’s license).

Minimum of two (2) years customer service experience which gives you the proven ability to deal professionally with the general public.

Minimum of 18 years of age.

A minimum of Grade 12 (diploma or GED) and only education obtained from an accredited institution will be recognized as meeting the minimum qualifications. Applicants are encouraged to have their foreign credentials evaluated or assessed prior to applying. This document must be made available prior to Calgary Transit conducting a job offer.

No more than three (3) demerits against your license in the past two (2) years.

Preference will be given to those who currently hold a Class 1 or 2 Alberta Operator’s License.

Preference is given to those who currently have a Q endorsement (airbrakes).

Preference is given to those who have a minimum of six (6) months of large vehicle driving experience (but not required)

A mechanic repairs turbines.

I don't want to demeen this trade as my Dad was a mechanic, but I beleive he would tell you todays mechanics are parts changers not trouble shooters. Hook up the machine and it tells you what sensor to change. I myself have done complete rebuilds without any formal training, Chiltons manual is an amazing thing.

Do you think a knowledge of metallurgy is required for a welder? Do you think that is easy to acquire?

Of the jobs you mentioned I beleive Welder would be the most complicated to learn.
http://www.weldingskills.com/certification.html
"We may assume that not all welders need to be certified, but, in the interest of safety and quality we would assume though that welders working on pressure vessels, boilers, pressure pipe in refineries, structural steel for bridges etc., would have to be highly skilled and capable of passing regulatory tests."

But to sum up my point, lousy, why don't you become a city bus driver and do our profession a favor.

[Driving Rain]

A rating system sounds pretty draconian to me. I feel implementing a system like that is perhaps unethical, I'll have to reflect more on it.

[/quote]
How about an inspection program like transport used to do. The college of physicians has an inspection program .
http://www.cpso.on.ca/members/default.aspx?id=5334