Sunwing and the likes...

[whipline]

Fair question. Way more operators using 737ng's in Europe. As far as Sunwings concerned our european pilots come from other 737 operators not walk ins off the street. Environment in Europe is also vastly different then Canada. Majority get their lic and ratings then go straight into an airbus or Boeing.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Fair question. Way more operators using 737ng's in Europe. As far as Sunwings concerned our european pilots come from other 737 operators not walk ins off the street. Environment in Europe is also vastly different then Canada. Majority get their lic and ratings then go straight into an airbus or Boeing.

In Canada, there is no way for a pilot to go buy his 737NG type rating. There is no one licensed by TC to provide it. The only ones who are allowed to train and provide 737NG type ratings in Canada are those airlines that operate the type, but Transport Canada regulations restrict these airlines to provide the training only to airline employees. They are not allowed to provide it to third parties.

So an American can buy a type rating and apply, a European can buy a type rating and apply, a Canadian cannot. The only way for a Canadian to qualify to apply for those Sunwing ads requiring a type rating is to bring one over from his previous employer.

So in all cases, Sunwing wants another pocket than its own to provide the type rating for those "seasonal" pilots. Except now that they need many pilots, they accept to pay whomever comes with a type rating in his his/her pocket $15,000, while at the same time claiming that it cost them $40,000 to train a non-rated pilot.

[cpt.sam]

Fair question. Way more operators using 737ng's in Europe. As far as Sunwings concerned our european pilots come from other 737 operators not walk ins off the street. Environment in Europe is also vastly different then Canada. Majority get their lic and ratings then go straight into an airbus or Boeing.

In Canada, there is no way for a pilot to go buy his 737NG type rating. There is no one licensed by TC to provide it. The only ones who are allowed to train and provide 737NG type ratings in Canada are those airlines that operate the type, but Transport Canada regulations restrict these airlines to provide the training only to airline employees. They are not allowed to provide it to third parties.

So an American can buy a type rating and apply, a European can buy a type rating and apply, a Canadian cannot. The only way for a Canadian to qualify to apply for those Sunwing ads requiring a type rating is to bring one over from his previous employer.

So in all cases, Sunwing wants another pocket than its own to provide the type rating for those "seasonal" pilots. Except now that they need many pilots, they accept to pay whomever comes with a type rating in his his/her pocket $15,000, while at the same time claiming that it cost them $40,000 to train a non-rated pilot.

So theoretically, If a person were to go florida or arizona and aquire a rating for 737ng and return to Canada, that rating wouldn't be validated on our Canadian License?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

So theoretically, If a person were to go florida or arizona and aquire a rating for 737ng and return to Canada, that rating wouldn't be validated on our Canadian License?

To go to the US and get a rating there, you need a US license. Where is the FAA check airman going to stamp your US rating? He has no authority to stamp your Canadian license as far as I know.

[Chaxterium]

If the candidate has an FAA 737 type rating it may not be "validated" on the Canadian licence per se, but all that is required is a simple conversion via the IPL agreement between Canada and the US. It can take anywhere from 30 to 90 days but other than that it's pretty straightforward and afterwards the candidate then has a full-fledged, stand alone TCCA 737 type rating.

http://tinyurl.com/cfx4kue

From Advisory Circular (AC) No. 401-001 (linked above)

6.7 Type Rating – Aeroplane - FAA to TCCA

In order for an FAA type rating - airplane holder to convert to a TCCA type rating, the applicant must meet the following eligibility requirements:

Must be at least 17 years of age and hold at least a TCCA private pilot licence.

Must hold either a Category 1 or Category 3 TCCA medical certificate, appropriate for the licence held.

Must hold an FAA pilot certificate with a type rating appropriate to the type rating sought.

No further written examination is required.

No further practical test is required.

Must be able to communicate in English or French.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Yes but that requires that the candidate posses an FAA licence to begin with, right ?

[Chaxterium]

Yes Gilles. That is correct. But the IPL agreement can be used to get an FAA licence as well quite easily. So a candidate could theoretically use the IPL to get his FAA CPL/ATP and then get the FAA 737 type rating, and then convert that FAA type rating to a TCCA type rating without any trouble at all.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Very well, now check this one out: the FAA does not recognise the 737NG to be a type rating different from the 737 classic or the 737-300 to -500 series.

http://registry.faa.gov/TypeRatings/

Transport Canada considers these to be 3 different type ratings.

The 737-100 and -200 are one
The -300, 400 and -500 are another
The -600, -700, -800 and 900 are a third.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... t-2276.htm

How does one convert an FAA blanket type rating for all 737s (B-737) to a TC 737NG type rating (B73C) ?

[Chaxterium]

Hmm...I'm not sure. That's certainly a very interesting question.

[Doc]

So theoretically, If a person were to go florida or arizona and aquire a rating for 737ng and return to Canada, that rating wouldn't be validated on our Canadian License?

To go to the US and get a rating there, you need a US license. Where is the FAA check airman going to stamp your US rating? He has no authority to stamp your Canadian license as far as I know.

Actually Gilles, I've done a couple of type ratings in the States. All that was required was for my employer to actually do the type check in the airplane with a CCP or TC. There is NO reason Sun Wing couldn't take "trained" pilots and provide them with check rides in their equipment. I trained for a 733 type with Continental, an F27 Type with US Air. Both just required check rides only in Canada. Has this changed? I've looked into the 737ng training Stateside, and yes, you can get the full blown rating on your CDN licence by providing your own CP. I have no intention of doing it, but there's no reason it can't be done.

[Jean-Luc Monette]

deleted...

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You guys both missed the point. Jo Blo from Canada who does not work for an airline in Canada cannot go to the States and buy himself a 737NG type rating is what I am saying.

You need a CCP to give you the test which a company CCP is not allowed to give to Jo Blo

[Chaxterium]

True. But the company might be much more willing to hire the candidate if they know that all he/she needs to complete his/her TCCA type rating is a ride with a CCP—which if I understand what Doc is saying—is all that is needed in that case.

[Colonel Sanders]

the candidate posses an FAA licence

Come on, it's not a big deal. I'm just a dumb airshow
pilot, and all I had to do, to convert my Cdn ATPL to
an FAA ATP under the IPL was to write a little test
(took 20 minutes) and do an FAA medical then show
up at an FAA FSDO to fill out a form. The FAA issued
the temporary certificate on the spot, the plastic
card showed up in the mail a couple weeks later.

Even if you don't think it counts, I am considering
doing my DC-3 type rating in the USA on my FAA
ATP, and having it put on my Cdn ATPL. In the unlikely
event I ever wanted to work for a Cdn commercial
operator of a DC-3 (as opposed to flying one privately
registered), all I would have to do is a ride, correct?

[Chaxterium]

Even if you don't think it counts, I am considering
doing my DC-3 type rating in the USA on my FAA
ATP, and having it put on my Cdn ATPL. In the unlikely
event I ever wanted to work for a Cdn commercial
operator of a DC-3 (as opposed to flying one privately
registered), all I would have to do is a ride, correct?

Yep. That's correct. Just to be clear, no ride is required to get the type rating added to your Canadian licence though. You would just need a ride for the PPC.

Cheers,
Chax

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Well I heard one can get a B-737 rating in the US for as little as $8000.

[Sidebar]

Well I heard one can get a B-737 rating in the US for as little as $8000.

Woohoo! Count me in. Then I'm off to Sunwing.

[captbm]

C FlZR operating in LBA/UK
saw it today Thompson livery

[railroad]

So to summarize,

It sounds as if the Colonel may buy a DC-3 type rating in case he is ever in need of a job. I guess all the rampies at Buffalo should add an extra 1/2 person to their number in the line-up.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

C FlZR operating in LBA/UK
saw it today Thompson livery

Correct, but it's CFLZR

http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-05-20/14:49/TOM699

[Colonel Sanders]

the Colonel may buy a DC-3 type rating in case he is ever in need of a job

Where on earth did that attack come from?
I never said anything like that.

Are you asserting that I am not eligible to fly
as PIC of a privately-registered DC-3?

I fly as PIC of privately-registered (no OC)
L39 jets. I am required by TC to hold a type
rating to do so.

Are you saying that I may not hold an (e.g.
L39 or DC-3) type rating unless someone
hires me to fly theirs in an operation with
an AOC?!

That's not what the CARs say. Is this some
kind of Jack Layton / Olivia Chow attack?

[ea306]

No need to attack the Colonel.

A Type Rating vs. a PPC are two different things.

A company would still need to do a full course if you have not had a PPC within the last 30 months (I believe it is 24 months after expiry of your last PPC...not sure...but is how I recall it). So running out and buying a Type Rating is not necessarily going to help much.

FYI
Here is a link to a Vancouver guy who does various type ratings: http://activeaerospace.com/
Not advising or recommending one way or the other...just illustrating that there is a Type Rating provider here in Canada.

[ea306]

You guys both missed the point. Jo Blo from Canada who does not work for an airline in Canada cannot go to the States and buy himself a 737NG type rating is what I am saying.

You need a CCP to give you the test which a company CCP is not allowed to give to Jo Blo

Gilles is partly correct. A PPC NO....a Type Rating YES.

You have to be employed by the company before the Company CCP can do the check ride. The training also has to be accomplished in accordance with the Transport Canada Approved Company Training Syllabus which is an integral part of the issuance of an AOC.

So rushing off to get a type rating isn't going to do much for you in this instance.

Incidentally, even the Foreign Pilots coming to fly under a Canadian AOC as a short term contract pilot must still be trained in accordance with the training program that is approved by TC for said company.

Understandably, The training requirements for a current PPC holder are much less than an ab initio course or a course for a former PPC holder who simply has the type rating on his/her licence. There in lies the cost differential for the company.

[ea306]

So theoretically, If a person were to go florida or arizona and aquire a rating for 737ng and return to Canada, that rating wouldn't be validated on our Canadian License?

To go to the US and get a rating there, you need a US license. Where is the FAA check airman going to stamp your US rating? He has no authority to stamp your Canadian license as far as I know.

Actually Gilles, I've done a couple of type ratings in the States. All that was required was for my employer to actually do the type check in the airplane with a CCP or TC. There is NO reason Sun Wing couldn't take "trained" pilots and provide them with check rides in their equipment. I trained for a 733 type with Continental, an F27 Type with US Air. Both just required check rides only in Canada. Has this changed? I've looked into the 737ng training Stateside, and yes, you can get the full blown rating on your CDN licence by providing your own CP. I have no intention of doing it, but there's no reason it can't be done.

Doc is also correct.

This is one way to have the type rating put on your Canadian Licence. Once done you have a Type Rating.

Unless the training was done in accordance with the Transport Canada Approved Training Syllabus for a Canadian Company AOC holder, it would simply be a Type Rating....not a PPC.

My Type Rating & PPC on the B737NG was done at Alteon located at Long Beech California. The training portion was done with USA Contractors who were contracted to teach the Sunwing Training Syllabus (SOP etc.) while the check ride was conducted by a CCP.

[ea306]

True. But the company might be much more willing to hire the candidate if they know that all he/she needs to complete his/her TCCA type rating is a ride with a CCP—which if I understand what Doc is saying—is all that is needed in that case.

Not quite.... For the reason stated in my previous posts.