Pilot License Number Meaning

[Colonel Sanders]

What were the privileges associated with the Senior Commercial Licence? Were the commercial and ATP privileges similar to the current licences?

Back when our pilot licences were green - I think I got
that right - the private, cpl, snr cpl and atr were weight
based. Aircraft, not the pilot.

IIRC private was 4,000 lbs max. I remember a doctor,
he bought a twin, this enraged DOT, because it was
over 4,000 lbs. They chased him around mercilessly
because he had to have a commercial pilot licence to
privately fly his own aircraft over 4,000 lbs. This was
tremendously important to the DOT.

Then they changed the rules and it didn't matter any
more.

I have trouble keeping up with all of this.

I think CPL was 12,500 and senior CPL was 44,000
and ATR was unlimited weight, but that was a while
ago.

[Prairie Chicken]

I got my ppl in '74/'75 and was issued the computer generated WGPxxxxxx licence with no stripe. If you got a cpl at the same time you still got the hand-issued with a stripe version--so I worked hard to get one with a stripe. Unfortunately, they had phased in the computer-generated cpl by the time I got that one so I never did have a stripe.

In those days, the prefix to a licence was the designator of the regional head office--QM, UL, YZ, WG XD, and VR--then the file number.

I did hold a scpl but don't recall all the privileges. You only needed a Class 2 IFR rather than a Class 1, and I believe there were GTOW limits for PIC operations.

[PilotDAR]

private was 4,000 lbs max

This is true. I used to fly C310 and Aztecs on my PPL at the time. Both types were type endorsed on my PPL because they exceeded 4000 pounds. That licensing weight limit was moved up to 12,500, so it did not matter any more, though to this day, my license still retains those two type endorsements.

I think this was a harmonization by TC of the licensing weight limit so it followed the Part 23 (up to 12,500) and Part 25 (over 12,500) certification weight limits.

[Colonel Sanders]

That licensing weight limit was moved up to 12,500

Not sure I understand that. PPL can act as PIC
of any aircraft that is certificated single-pilot that
doesn't require a type rating, either high-performance
or two-crew:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... e-2290.htm

For example, a PPL can fly an F-86 (over 20,000 lbs
max gross) if he gets a type rating in it. Note that
his first training flight will be solo.

A PPL could get a Boeing or Airbus type rating and
act as PIC of it, too, although the Sunwing crowd
here would be pretty upset about it.

[Beefitarian]

I think mine has the weight limit written on it. "Single pilot, single engine, non high performance, land airplanes up to 12500lbs."

I just found my green one, issued 1995, 05, 31 it is P36---- and no weight limit written. I'm pretty sure it was written on my other one. Don't know why, I'd think that if it doesn't but it might not still.

[Shiny Side Up]

I just found my green one,

I remember having one of those. Someone came by here the other day wondering what he had to do to get recurrent, still had a brown one. Wasn't aware that anything had changed in the mean time. Seemed afraid of having his picture taken for the new license, that and having to write a PSTAR. Terrifying stuff. Not sure I'll see him back, said he hadn't been flying in over 20 years.

[Colonel Sanders]

still had a brown one

I presume you are referring to his pilot licence,
and not his underwear ...

If that is the case, he has not updated his address
with TC which is a CARs contravention. I know pilots
that have been charged for not informing TC within
7 days of an address change. See CAR 400.07

If he is 20 years out of compliance with the 7 day
requirement of CAR 400.07, that's 20 x 365 = 7,300
days. Divide that by 7, that's in excess of 1000
separate contraventions of CAR 400.07. Given
the $5,000 fine involved, that's a fine of $5,000,000
which TC could levy.

[Shiny Side Up]

That's assuming he changed his adress somewhere in that time, which I don't think he did. The five million dollar fine is a good story though and would have served well as the threat of a PSTAR to scare him off. Might have made his underwear match his license color.

[Beefitarian]

That's mean. Now it seems silly and I don't know why, but that test and applying for the book with a passport picture were both scarry. I'm certainly happy to be on this side of both. I should go take another practice PSTAR just to try and remember the flying parts that could be potentially important.

That brown license must be from the 1980s.

[Colonel Sanders]

I vaguely remember something about a licence
which was mostly white but had a brown frame (?)

Went digging around the office desk drawers, found this PPL from 1952, which was white:

Note that it was never valid, because he never
signed it. Not sure what the fine is for that.


This CPL is from 1966 and is white with a blue diagonal stripe:

Never signed that one, either.


This one (IFR) is from 1964 and is green:

[CLguy]

If memory serves me correctly you needed at least a Senior Commercial to qualify as a CP for a company. You could also hold a Senior Commercial without having an Instrument Rating.

[iflyforpie]

It's kind of neat seeing all of these different licence types coming together.

Here is my grandfather's... look's like PPLs had a brown stripe in 1967....



He signed his.... but the ink has faded quite a bit.

[Colonel Sanders]

This is a funny one. T33's had a habit of breaking
the starter quill shaft, especially when used with
battery carts that didn't ramp up the amps gently.

So, the old man developed the habit of carrying
around a spare quill shaft, and the socket and
extension to change it.

The RCAF was horrified. Pilots doing maintenance?!
After considerable consternation, the following was
issued:



I understand from later RCAF pilots that it was
normal for them to carry around a spare quill
shaft, socket and extension when flying T33's.

[iflyforpie]

I suppose that is like the Elementary Maintenance cards you are supposed to carry around as a CPL nowadays. I've never bothered; I've always got my AME licence with me and I've got an ACA for maintenance and structures on everything I fly.

[Colonel Sanders]

Careful about the elementary work ... Enforcement
went bananas on the @ss of a friend of mine, who
removed a quick-release door on a Cessna for jumper
dumping without a maintenance release from an AMO.

$2,200 fine and a FIVE YEAR licence suspension. Just
brutal.

[photofly]

CAR 625 Appendix A, Elementary Work, task #22:

(22) removal and replacement of cabin doors on unpressurized aircraft, where the door is designed for rapid removal and replacement;

What's the backstory?

[Colonel Sanders]

It was a rental 172 - it was commercially
registered. Despite the fact that the pilot
was a 10 yr AME apprentice, the door was
removed without a maintenance release
from an AMO, and Enforcement howled
with glee. They had him, because there
was no paper showing that he had received
initial and recurrent training on this particular
elementary work, from this particular FTU.

This particular Inspector had a hard-on for
him, and didn't care if anyone knew it. She
phoned me up cold - I'd never talked to her
before in my life - and told me that if I ever
flew an airplane in her Region, she would
have me charged with CARs contravention.

Ok. I don't fly in that Region. Neither does
he, any more, come to think of it.

[New_PIC]

...
If that is the case, he has not updated his address
with TC which is a CARs contravention. I know pilots
that have been charged for not informing TC within
7 days of an address change. See CAR 400.07

If he is 20 years out of compliance with the 7 day
requirement of CAR 400.07, that's 20 x 365 = 7,300
days. Divide that by 7, that's in excess of 1000
separate contraventions of CAR 400.07. Given
the $5,000 fine involved, that's a fine of $5,000,000
which TC could levy.

Ouch!!
I suppose that would apply to a student permit too, right? I started training in the early eighties but had to quit. I actually got my student permit in the mail a few weeks after I'd stopped training. I may have neglected to notify TC of my address changes up until I restarted last year ...

To begin last year, I dug out my old flight bag with the permit and all the old books. The student permit number was XDX 3*****. I checked my new student permit and it uses the same 3***** number, though in one place it's preceeded with another 4 digits and a hyphen. The old one is kind of brownish, and it may have even started that way.

[flyinthebug]

That brown license must be from the 1980s.

Just found my old Student Pilot Permit and PPL from 1984. You are correct it is brown. I will attempt to scan it and post as well. My Student Pilot Permit was YYZ 2***** and then my PPL was YZP 2*****.