• Four things you probably do badly

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:04 pm**

We're kind of dancing around a topic, but
not directly addressing it.

When you go to fly a strange airplane,
possibly at a strange airport, what do you
NEED to know?

Many people will try to stuff your head full
of garbage that is near and dear to them,
but is probably useless to you.

I could tell you the answer, but let's be
developmental about this.

What do you NEED to know about a strange
airplane?

What do you NEED to know about a strange
airport?

I will be disappointed if someone lists 100
points for each, which means that they really
have no clue how to prioritize, which means
they are neglecting the important stuff for
the unimportant stuff, which means they
are a poor pilot.

Data point: a few days ago I did a flight test
(me the candidate) in an airplane that I had
never flown before, of a type that I was unfamiliar
with, at an airport unfamiliar to me, in a part
of the country I was unfamiliar with, over a
thousand miles from my home.

What did I NEED to know, to do that flight test?

Low-time pilots, lets hear from you - you're
probably fresher than I am, on taking flight tests.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:36 pm**

I won't answer that Colonel, I leave it for someone else. My concern is how much of that stuff you need to know for flying airplanes, is stuff that ain't going to change. Its basic aviation, flying 101 stuff. If you need to be briefed on pull back, cows get small, push forward, cows get big level of stuff to be able to pull it off in the plane, there's a big problem. That's just a feeling I get from some guys though. They're willing to just go through the motions, they want the flying to be the same self affirmation every flight. Any suprises are nothing short of catastrophic. I refuse to believe lots of it is based on taught wrong, or no one ever said. Should you have to brief pilots that you want them to take off and land into the wind? That you want them to try for the centerline of the runway? That you don't want them to wheelbarrow the poor thing?

How low is the bar here?

Honest to God, you see guys put their headsets on and panic when they can't hear anything immediately.

"Uh, you have to plug it in. Sorry I didn't brief you on plugging your headet in to use it, my bad."

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:35 pm**

Colonel Sanders wrote: What do you NEED to know about a strange
airplane?

What do you NEED to know about a strange
airport?

90-hour PPL here. I will take a whack at this.

V-speeds. T/O, landing performance. Assuming one is sufficiently proficient (heh) in piston aircraft engine operation, I'd say those are the most 2 important.

When I go to a strange airport, I will use the mighty photocopier to blow up the CFS page into a Word document, and add in large print the relevant radio frequencies I will need to monitor. I will often fly it in FSX just to get an idea of the available ways to join the circuit. My school flies to Gatineau (CYND) for the PPL solo x-country, which has left and right circuits depending on the runway so we don't scare the hell out of the old fogies at Rockcliffe

. I've made errors before involving circuit joining that got me the ol' "uhhh, do you have the airport in sight" message from the tower. Live and learn!

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:41 pm**

I will take a whack at this

So you don't care about:

- fuel burn (gph)
- fuel capacity
- fuel system plumbing / selector / drains / caps / vents
- boost pump usage for takeoff/landing

or

- oil level (full, min & windage)

I couldn't give a sh1t about V-speeds. Density altitude
is severely negative. Look at the markings on the ASI.
Gear speed is nice to know, I suppose.

A few years back, nice guy got his Comanche painted
here. I suggested he fill up before he leave, he said
no because I'm a moron. No problem.

Runs a tank dry over Rockcliffe. Doesn't switch tanks,
stuff his newly-painted comanche into the fence short
of 27.

Did he have adequate knowledge of his fuel system?

PS Aircraft I did a flight test on recently. Had no idea
of approach speed. Didn't care. Got nice landing.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:57 pm**

Strange airport:

- ident (for GPS)
- elevation (for cct height or 200 above)
- obstacles (towers? hills?)
- runways (orientation & lengths)
- right or left traffic?
- ATIS / Approach / Tower / Ground / Clnc (or MF or ATF)

Talk to me about arriving at Hot Springs, Arkansas
VFR at night. You've never been there before.

You're going to die unless you pay attention to a few
things, which probably have very little to do with
playing with the radio.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:07 pm**

Simple at night. I don't do vfr approaches to strange airports at night, especially with any terrain anywhere near. Clear and a million, I request the ILS -- if they have one. Someone doesn't like it, too bad.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 pm**

Colonel Sanders wrote:Strange airport:

- ident (for GPS)
- elevation (for cct height or 200 above)
- obstacles (towers? hills?)
- runways (orientation & lengths)
- right or left traffic?
- ATIS / Approach / Tower / Ground / Clnc (or MF or ATF)

Talk to me about arriving at Hot Springs, Arkansas
VFR at night. You've never been there before.

You're going to die unless you pay attention to a few
things, which probably have very little to do with
playing with the radio.

While I appreciate your seemingly endless wealth of knowledge, I do not plan on dying anytime soon. I mentioned the radio stuff because I do not want to be futzing around a GPS' airport details page instead of concentrating on how am I supposed to join the circuit. Aviate, navigate, communicate.

In my defense, all of those things are on the blown-up CFS page.
Also if I know my plane's landing/takeoff performance, chances are I've figured in the density altitude. You said strange aircraft, I used my albeit limited experience to guess having a rough idea what the stall speed is is not not beneficial.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm**

What I do is draw a little diagram of the airport on my nav log page on my kneeboard. Basically just the runway(s), along with lines showing the circuit direction. I also write on it the elevation and circuit height (if not 1000AGL). All the radio frequencies are obviously written down too. This keeps it simple - you can quickly look down and see exactly where you're meant to be flying in the circuit without having to trawl through the info in a CFS page. In fact I do this for any airport I fly to unless it's somewhere I regularly fly to.

As for the plane: these days you can download free versions of the POH for all the major types of spam can. You might not get the exact year, but you'll get something that is close enough (you can find out the model history to see if there have been any significant changes). You really should know pretty much everything in the POH if you're doing a checkout, in my opinion.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:11 pm**

Rookie50 wrote:Simple at night. I don't do vfr approaches to strange airports at night, especially with any terrain anywhere near. Clear and a million, I request the ILS -- if they have one. Someone doesn't like it, too bad.

"XKF, unable the ILS, cleared visual 26 via the left downwind."

Now what?

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:55 pm**

If it really is a challenging airport to go into at night, you bug out and go to a familiar airport.

Lots of airports in my area you simply do not go into at night unless you are familiar with them by day or have an instructor who is familiar with them.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:07 pm**

photofly wrote:
Rookie50 wrote:Simple at night. I don't do vfr approaches to strange airports at night, especially with any terrain anywhere near. Clear and a million, I request the ILS -- if they have one. Someone doesn't like it, too bad.
"XKF, unable the ILS, cleared visual 26 via the left downwind."

Now what?

I don't think the point was translated. In my view, doing visuals to a strange airport for the first time, at night, in mountainous terrain is a really bad idea. It's a personal rule of mine, because of several fatal accidents I've read about by people doing the exact same thing. That's why numerous airports have listed in the Cfs -- " don't land at night here if unfamiliar".

First -- I actually am one of those that checks notams, including navaid functions, for my destination and alternate. Next, If I'm landing somewhere -- especially near terrain -- for the very first time at night, I'm not picking a place with one approach only. Its my way of mitigating risk at night, along with knowing the terrain around the field.

To answer your question, if everything happens but the runway disappearing in a pool of lava, I'd get close in, descend and land visually. But in the states, I've found they will normally vector you onto the ILS at night anyway, without even asking.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:20 am**

You might think that "vectors to the ILS" is a magic
potion, but if you're not approaching at a high enough
altitude to clear the obstacles (towers, hills) before
you get to the extended runway centerline, you're dead.

Not sure if you read accident articles or not, but
there are plenty of fatal VFR night accidents during
approach (and often departure) where people hit
high terrain not far from the airport, generally in
quite good wx.

I realize that people love to play with radios and
have long lists of frequencies to talk on, but not
hitting stuff is a lot more important than sounding
like a late-night FM disc jockey on the radio.

Again, poor prioritization.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:33 am**

The youngsters probably don't remember this:

On October 30th, 1991 Hercules tail number 130322, had taken on it's load of fuel at Thule and had been requested to fly passengers on to Alert ... as 322 was nearing Alert, about 15 kms south flying VFR with the lights of Alert in sight it clipped the top of a hill. Wreckage was strewn over a wide area and the fuel carried in the bladder covered the entire area. When the aircraft crashed, it also caught fire.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/safetyalerts/SA_013.pdf

Recent NTSB investigations have identified several accidents that involved controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) by both instrument flight rules (IFR)-rated and visual flight rules (VFR) pilots operating under visual flight conditions at night in remote areas.

• In many of these cases, the pilots were in contact with air traffic control (ATC) at the time of the accident and receiving radar service.

• The pilots and controllers involved all appear to have been unaware that the aircraft were in danger

o A Learjet departed Brown Field, south of San Diego, California, and struck terrain while being radar vectored in a mountainous area east of the airport, resulting in three fatalities.

o A Piper Saratoga departed Bakersfield, California, en route to Santa Barbara, California, descended from 8,500 feet to 6,500 feet, and collided with a 6,700-foot peak, resulting in two fatalities.

o A Beech-Raytheon King Air struck a 5,700-foot ridge while descending on a visual approach to Bozeman, Montana, resulting in three fatalities.

o A Piper Cherokee collided with trees and terrain at 2,800 feet while descending for landing at Winchester, Virginia, killing all three occupants.

o A Beech-Raytheon King Air struck terrain at the 11,700-foot level of the Rocky Mountains while descending southwest of Alamosa, Colorado, resulting in three fatalities.

o A Cessna 182 departed Las Vegas, Nevada, and struck an 8,400-foot mountain at the 7,000-foot level about 12 miles southwest of the city, resulting in two fatalities.

Now, what's more important: radio frequencies or terrain knowledge?

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 am**

I do not plan on dying anytime soon

ummmm ... do you think that any of the people that
died in the above accidents woke up that morning and
said, "Hey! Today is a good day to die in an aircraft!"

having a rough idea what the stall speed is

Not sure if you've noticed yet or not, but the manufacturer
went to the trouble of marking Vs on the ASI as the bottom
of the green arc, and Vso as the bottom of the white arc.

You can calculate Va and Vref using simple mental arithmetic
from those markings.

About the only speed that isn't marked on the ASI is the gear,
and I have no idea why. A placard next to the ASI with Vlo
would be nice. Failing that, a line on the ASI with a Sharpie
will do.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:01 am**

What I do is draw a little diagram of the airport

Don't really need to. NavCan gives them away
for free (gasp):

http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/products-and ... harts.aspx

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:56 am**

if I know my plane's landing/takeoff performance, chances are I've figured in the density altitude

Recently, the temperature was -30C. Not windchill,
straight up -30C. That means the density altitude is
severely negative. That means at a 6000 foot runway
(at CYND, you mentioned) calculating takeoff and
landing performance is a complete waste of your time.

I operate ex-military jets at CYND in the summer
without a single care in the world, wrt takeoff and
landing performance. You sure as hell don't need
to worry about taking a trainer there in the winter
as far as density altitude is concerned.

See above comments re: very poor prioritization,
which is when you neglect important stuff for useless
stuff. And, that's how people have accidents.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:49 am**

Colonel Sanders wrote:The youngsters probably don't remember this:

On October 30th, 1991 Hercules tail number 130322, had taken on it's load of fuel at Thule and had been requested to fly passengers on to Alert ... as 322 was nearing Alert, about 15 kms south flying VFR with the lights of Alert in sight it clipped the top of a hill. Wreckage was strewn over a wide area and the fuel carried in the bladder covered the entire area. When the aircraft crashed, it also caught fire.

I feel like a bad person for asking but...

How low were they flying and why? In that region would there not be a pretty large risk of the tall white thing they hit blending in during the day? More than once I have been shocked while flying through a valley to see someone skimming the tree tops way below me.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:06 pm**

They didn't think they were flying low, Beef.

Like many soon-to-be-dead people, they didn't
know they had a problem. It was a night VFR
approach, and they had dark hills between them
and the airport - like so many other accidents,
as previously described.

Everybody here thinks, "That can't happen to me".

I guess, with short days and no delays in aviation
during winter, NO ONE ever ends up doing an unplanned
night VFR approach in Canada, and no one ever
flies anyplace they haven't been before.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:11 pm**

I don't have to write here that I'm odd but I like to fly as high as practical. Less hills and towers, more time to think and options if the prop ever stops. Flying places I have never been is fun.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:21 pm**

It's not even just hills and towers that can make
night VFR approaches fun.

Good examples are CYRO (Rockcliffe, near Ottawa)
and CNC4 (Guelph, near Toronto).

If you get out your CFS and thumb through it for
these airports, you will note that they have lighted
runways. You might consider landing at them
after dark, for your first time arriving there.

BAD IDEA. The CFS ought to scream in large, bold
capital letters in the CAUTION section:

DO NOT USE AT NIGHT UNLESS REALLY FAMILIAR

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:57 pm**

Comes back to " 1) to fly more."?

I was just talking a few weeks ago about a bud planning to get his 5 take offs and landings in at night before the time change. Then I guess I would be legal to take passengers for the next six months. Safe? I don't know.

That PDF CAC is nice. Makes me wish I had a paper CFS though.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:03 pm**

Makes me wish I had a paper CFS though

PM me your snail mail address, I will
send you a CFS expired 6 Feb 14.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:12 pm**

Pop n Fresh wrote: ... Makes me wish I had a paper CFS though.

I like to hold paper in my hands too. However, it's not always convenient and these days there are options. It might have been a bit over enthusiastic and extravagent but I got Foreflight on my iPad and then discovered I could also install it on my phone.

This is a very timely thread for me. I'm barely 60+ hours, and a significant percentage of that from several decades ago, and working on a night rating. My young instructor has suggested a destination for the upcoming dual x-country that is unfamiliar to me and I'm pretty sure he said he hasn't been there before either. So I've just pulled out my phone and reviewed the CFS page and maps for that airport. Now I also have to go refresh my CFS decoding skills.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:15 pm**

Colonel Sanders wrote:It's not even just hills and towers that can make
night VFR approaches fun.

Good examples are CYRO (Rockcliffe, near Ottawa)
and CNC4 (Guelph, near Toronto).

If you get out your CFS and thumb through it for
these airports, you will note that they have lighted
runways. You might consider landing at them
after dark, for your first time arriving there.

BAD IDEA. The CFS ought to scream in large, bold
capital letters in the CAUTION section:

DO NOT USE AT NIGHT UNLESS REALLY FAMILIAR

+1 I learned at CNC4, got my night rating at CZBA but still won't fly into CNC4 at night unless they put in an APAPI. Too scary.

Then this winter, CZBA had no APAPI - went flying a couple of night using 14 which was OK, but won't fly using 32 until the APAI is up and running. Same thing, Trees (and associated sink) on the approach that I know are very close during the day when I can see them.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:36 pm**

Free advice for PPL's with fresh night ratings:

- don't fly someplace at night unless it has a
VASI/PAPI. Always use it. Costs the same.
Do not descend below 500 AGL until you are
on final with red/white

- learn about the OCS in the CFS. Also use
the blue MEF on the VNC. Know what a safe
altitude is, in the vicinity of the airport.

- transition is what will kill you. Get on the
dials immediately after takeoff. Wings level,
pitch up 10 degrees, full power. Be acutely
aware of lights (and thus your visual horizon)
disappearing on you.

- dewpoint spread, dewpoint spread, dewpoint spread.
Do not fly without at least 3 degrees C dewpoint
spread (why?). Be forewarned that a melting blanket
of snow is an incredible fog-producing machine
this time of year.

Flying at night can be great, if the wx is good.

But it can also be terribly unforgiving of mistakes.
Night VFR accidents are frequently fatal.

Four things you probably do badly

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Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly

Re: Four things you probably do badly