PPL info needed! - First timer...

[Rookie50]

I was in my mid -30's, with an appropriately slower brain when I got my ppl. I did it in 62, an I estimate I wasted perhaps 5 -6 of that, half my fault, half the FTU's. Eg, with a class 4, at my FTU I had to do a flight with the class one prior to the flight test recommend, so there's .8 wasted. Then I blew the forced approach on the ride -- 30 + knots upper winds at 3000 -- so another lesson, another class one check, another partial flight test.

So optionally I would have been done in 55 hours, not less as I had extra flights I didn't mind that had value. If I recall most of those were solo practice, some were admittedly fun mixed with practice.

To me -- It's not a race, it's being ready to accept being pilot in command at the end, fully prepared. I have no complaints.

[Shiny Side Up]

Reminds of a certain FTU in BC that used to charge students a "registration fee". Or maybe still do.

Actually this has become more common, we even do it, but there's a reason. I credit the fee back to our students account as soon as they do their first flight, attend ground school or anything else that puts them here in the flesh.. The problem we started running into was getting bombarded by people seeking some sort of confirmation that they were enrolled in flight training, but who weren't intending to do any triaining, just wanted the paper for whatever reasons. There's a lot of things you can qualify for if you can pose as a "student". Most common was the requests you get flooded for from "international students".

I'm all for low hours and economical training. Is it doable?

Yes. We do it all the time. I don't worry about students finishing anymore in the minimum 45 hours, but rather that they finish in the minimum dual hours at the school. Students (especially those with their own airplanes) are generally horrible at staying within allotted solo time to do their license, there's alot of people I want to beat with a stick over that, but one can't complain too much, it is fun to go by yourself.

But then someone was bitching about this the other day. They said their license cost too much, we hosed them. Pulled up their record, they spend a whole $153.75 over what I quoted them. Yup, evil instructor, enacting my plan for world domination by overcharging poor needy students.

You make a big deal out of cross
countries.

Between this and radio work, I'm not sure which one that students stress over the most. Like the tv commercials say,Just do it. GPS these days makes navigation trivial. Assuming you bother to figure out how your GPS works, which most people persist on trying to do while they're flying rather than somewhere less urgent than the picnic table before they fly. Whatever.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

WKP: You make a big deal out of cross
countries. My experience is that if the
wx is good, and you have good nav eqpt,
and lots of fuel, it's really not very hard.

These days, with incredibly accurate GPS's
in everyone's phone (or dirt cheap as a
separate device) navigation is frankly a
joke. It didn't used to be that way, decades
ago, when I flew around Canada with only
a VNC and a compass.

How many decades did you spend, flying
around Canada, with no nav radios and
only a VNC?

I assume I am WKP.

I can't seem to win. I read many posts where people bemoan newly minted PPLs as being woefully ill-prepared and then when I admit that undertaking a x-country to a small island airstrip would make me uneasy, I get the message that it is a non-issue.

I don't intend to make the x-country sound like my bugaboo, but if it is, I likely have good reason. On my first x-country with my instructor ( Brampton to London ) we twice had to change altitude to avoid conflict with intersecting traffic. According to the instructor, he hadn't had to take such action in his last 100 x-country flights, but on ours we had to do it TWICE. With this kind of introduction to x-country flight, it would make sense if I was timid.

It's also hard for people to fully empathize how scary flying can be when you start doing it in your later years. It's not necessarily the elevated risk, since we usually just step up our game to match the increased risk. It's losing faith in our ability to yet again, step up to the challenge. When you are inexperienced, something has to make up for it. Luck ? Hmmm, not very consoling. Hard work and diligence ? Yes, which is where the getting older and more tired thing comes in.

Going beyond one's comfort zone is hard work, and at some point, the returns are not warranted.

[Shiny Side Up]

I can't seem to win. I read many posts where people bemoan newly minted PPLs as being woefully ill-prepared and then when I admit that undertaking a x-country to a small island airstrip would make me uneasy, I get the message that it is a non-issue.

That's because like many pilots, you're missing on what you're unprepared for. This is largely the fault of how flight training is conducted, but often is tied with what people perceive is important to being a pilot. After all, what's the issue with going to the island airport? Navigation on the face of it is brutally simple. Figure out what direction you need to fly, then fly it for the allotted time. Make sure you got enough gas. People make it out to be more complicated than it is. Partly because they perceive it to be hugely procedure laden and that someone is going to beat you with a soap on a rope if you get one of your lines wrong. You're not doing anything near as difficult like a one take of the your man could smell like me commercial.

I don't intend to make the x-country sound like my bugaboo, but if it is, I likely have good reason. On my first x-country with my instructor ( Brampton to London ) we twice had to change altitude to avoid conflict with intersecting traffic. According to the instructor, he hadn't had to take such action in his last 100 x-country flights, but on ours we had to do it TWICE. With this kind of introduction to x-country flight, it would make sense if I was timid.

Maybe I'm missing what's scary here. Did you have to do two close range avoidance's?

Yes, which is where the getting older and more tired thing comes in.

If you want to use that excuse, then remember what Stewie says: "Whether you think you can or you can't; you're right."



She's a 45 year old mother of three. What's your excuse again?

Going beyond one's comfort zone is hard work, and at some point, the returns are not warranted.

Depends on what you perceive the "rewards" are.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

That's because like many pilots, you're missing on what you're unprepared for. This is largely the fault of how flight training is conducted, but often is tied with what people perceive is important to being a pilot. After all, what's the issue with going to the island airport?

To help give the seasoned pilots a snippet of what types of things would concern the newb pilot on a trip to Pelee, I will offer the following :

1) If there were no rules, I would fly straight to the Island, but I know I have to avoid flying over drop zones and other such areas. I should also avoid practice/training areas.
2) I would wonder if the weather is going to cooperate with me for the entire flight. Staying overnight ( not at Pelee Island mind you ) would have me anxious over whether I would be able to fly out the next day. Perhaps the weatherman got it wrong and now I'm stuck. Remember, I get stuck a lot easier than seasoned pilots.
3) The there's the 3300 ft runway (If I recall the length correctly) and the fact that I have never been there before and the fact that it involves flying over water.
4) Having learned at an uncontrolled field, I have minimal experience with ATC interaction. Will I contact the right airport at the right time ?

Maybe I'm missing what's scary here. Did you have to do two close range avoidance's?

No, but that is what is so mysterious about it. For the first "incident", through radio banter, the instructor determined the location, altitude and heading of another a/c and after a couple more exchanges, we changed altitude. With the instructor's knowledge of the area, he knew where the other traffic was ( more or less ). When I hear reports where so-and-so is over the town of so-and-so, I have to scurry to the map to see where this traffic is. I would likely not have found it and would likely have changed my altitude slightly just to feel better, but that doesn't feel satisfying.

The second time was much more imminent. Approaching our home airfield, traffic was cutting across a well published practice field route at a place and altitude that is pretty much guaranteed to create a potential conflict. My instructor noticed him first ~ again, this could be because he knows the kind of stuff that happens in that corridor. We could not reach him by radio but had taken fairly quick action to avoid a conflict. My life didn't flash in front of my eyes or anything, and I wouldn't have thought much about it except that according to my instructor, it doesn't happen that often.

The second instance bothered me less than the first, because at least by seeing the conflict, I had a shot at avoiding it. I always wondered why there aren't a ton of near misses with everyone criss-crossing the province/country at similar altitudes and the first instance made me feel that my trepidation was warranted. ( This is where CS reminds us that two planes have to be at the exact same altitude in order to collide, but that isn't enough of a consolation for me )

If you want to use that excuse ( being old and tired ) , then remember what Stewie says: "Whether you think you can or you can't; you're right."

Perhaps Stewie is right, but keep in mind, he has the body ( and energy) of a two year old.

[photofly]

Planes don't care about flying over water (actually it's easier, there's no terrain to hit).

I think your instructor has done you a HUGE disservice by impressing on you all sorts of allegedly cast iron rules about not flying through drop zones, or training areas, and having to identify every other plane on the radio on the map, without the ability to do which you can't possibly be a safe pilot.

Go and fly with the radio turned off and use your eyes not to fly into parachutists or other aircraft.

A 3300ft runway is twice as long as you need.

If you really can't afford to get stuck somewhere over night - or two nights, you have no business to be flying yourself around. Get-home-itis WILL kill you.

[MIQ]

If you can't interpret the weather properly or figure out what frequency to contact and when then you should rather hit the books again than getting more dual experience in the air. That is stuff that can and should be learned and prepared on the ground and is also tested on the PPAER.
If you're dedicated enough you can definitely get your license done within 50 hours. But you can't expect that it would just come to you, you have to work for it. The better prepared you will show up to your lesson, the better the lesson will go. Don't expect that your instructor will teach you everything, do some reading ahead on your own. I noticed at myself the days that I showed up unprepared because of insufficient time to prepare combined with stupid laziness really didn't go so well. However, I had my license signed off with 48 hours in the book, flying out of a 'busy' controlled airport, in the water (CYTZ) with the practice area being 0.3 airtime away from the airport. I have to admit though, that my instructor at that time only had my best interest in mind and by no means tried to milk me. Neither did the school at any point. So that's obviously quite an important factor too.
I probably wouldn't do ab initio out of that airport again if I had the chance but it still was an excellent learning experience.
Btw. after I got my PPL I went on 50 hours solo cross country flights at day and night across Ontario and Quebec to build up the required time for my MIFR rating. I admit that I now feel more comfortable about cross country flights than I did right after I got my license but the only way to learn it and become more confident is by practicing it and just doing it. As long as you have an instructor with you you will always sort of rely on him instead of figuring things out yourself. You don't even need to go by yourself, take a flying buddy and the two of you can figure things out together. Still a much better learning curve than having your instructor holding your hand the whole time.
Sorry if I sound like a prick but I worked at a flight school long enough to see plenty of students making these mistakes of showing up unprepared or not taking things seriously. I've seen students that wouldn't even leave the circuit after they got their licence. Same as with the weekend warriors that come out two weekends a month, spend half an hour in the practice area, come back do 3 circuits and call it a day.

[Shiny Side Up]

To help give the seasoned pilots a snippet of what types of things would concern the newb pilot on a trip to Pelee, I will offer the following :

I'll try to help you out, but keep in mind I'm more of a toe of the boot instructor than the massaging egos kind.

1) If there were no rules, I would fly straight to the Island, but I know I have to avoid flying over drop zones and other such areas. I should also avoid practice/training areas.

Hang the rules, isn't this stuff just sort of sensible? There's no rules that say you can't fly into mountain sides either, but its probably reasonable and sensible to go over or around, no? I do find though that newer pilots don't have a sense of "go around" though. Had this discussion a few days ago when checking out a new CPL on a plane. We were talking about going somewhere and I had mentioned a few thunderheads that were in the area that we would endeavor to avoid. His question was "but what if we wanted to get somewhere underneath it?" The concept of "no go" just wasn't there. Speaking of...

2) I would wonder if the weather is going to cooperate with me for the entire flight. Staying overnight ( not at Pelee Island mind you ) would have me anxious over whether I would be able to fly out the next day. Perhaps the weatherman got it wrong and now I'm stuck. Remember, I get stuck a lot easier than seasoned pilots.

A simple rule but one lots of people die every year when they don't figure it out. The possibility of not going is always there when you choose to fly. Its there when you choose to drive too, but people often don't make that distinction. There's lots of cars in the ditch every winter on some of the worst weather days possible where people didn't figure it out. Was wherever they were going so important to risk the consequences of not getting there or not getting back?

That said though, one can reasonably calculate - no real special skill or training needed - on what the probability of weather ruining one's fun. The longer you plan on going, the greater the chances are. Same with the farther you go. Small thing that lots of people don't realize is that your radius of operation when it comes to small planes really relies on how fast you can go within a window of reasonably expected weather.

As a pilot you really just have to get out of the mentality of "must go" that's so prevalent these days since that's how people treat driving.

3) The there's the 3300 ft runway (If I recall the length correctly) and the fact that I have never been there before and the fact that it involves flying over water.

Flying over water is not hard. The fact that a 3300 ft runway concerns you near sea level really shows a hole in your training though. This is something you should be way more concerned with rather than how often you navigate, or how well you talk on the radio...

4) Having learned at an uncontrolled field, I have minimal experience with ATC interaction. Will I contact the right airport at the right time ?

If you don't, what's the worst that can happen? Trust me, there's probably been bigger screw ups than what you're going to do. If you think about it a bit before hand, read the CFS, check your map, you'll probably do better than you think. Listen to the Terminal frequency some times and the guys flying big planes screw it up all the time. Sometimes the controller gets frustrated if he has to repeat a long clearance twice. Not that one should be ok with being a screw up, but in the big scheme of things, talking to controllers ain't that scary. Just do it.

No, but that is what is so mysterious about it. For the first "incident", through radio banter, the instructor determined the location, altitude and heading of another a/c and after a couple more exchanges, we changed altitude. With the instructor's knowledge of the area, he knew where the other traffic was ( more or less ). When I hear reports where so-and-so is over the town of so-and-so, I have to scurry to the map to see where this traffic is. I would likely not have found it and would likely have changed my altitude slightly just to feel better, but that doesn't feel satisfying.

The second time was much more imminent. Approaching our home airfield, traffic was cutting across a well published practice field route at a place and altitude that is pretty much guaranteed to create a potential conflict. My instructor noticed him first ~ again, this could be because he knows the kind of stuff that happens in that corridor. We could not reach him by radio but had taken fairly quick action to avoid a conflict. My life didn't flash in front of my eyes or anything, and I wouldn't have thought much about it except that according to my instructor, it doesn't happen that often.

Your instructor might have done you the disservice of making it out to be a bigger problem than it was. They do that sometimes, they have to make their lives interesting. I posted a whole long diatribe about where to look to find people who are most concerning and your most likely points of "conflict" no one read it though, they'd much prefer to dodge people at close range.

Perhaps Stewie is right, but keep in mind, he has the body ( and energy) of a two year old.

You know, the age excuse really irritates me. You either are someone who does, or you're someone who doesn't. I have students in their seventies. Some revel in the challenge, some quit. My friend who's an AME/pilot, rode his street legal dirt bike to bike to Whitehorse and back last year. He's Sixty Six and completed an amazing feat of iron-butt. Slept in a pup tent on the way. My Grandma determined that my Grandfather was "too old" to be driving his quad around and hid his keys. So you know what he did? Saddled up his horse. Made her madder. He's Eighty-Four.

Possibly the most rewarding student is a 60 year old lady who's had a few bouts with the big C, we finally managed to finish her Rec permit. Flies more than most guys I know. Frig, she even stitched and ironed the skin on her own Cub.

When I go to any sort of "flying club" meeting, which are mostly Old Fart clubs, there's two groups: The guys who do stuff and the guys who don't do stuff and have excuses for not doing stuff.

In this life I just got no more time for guys who say they "can't".

[MIQ]

4) Having learned at an uncontrolled field, I have minimal experience with ATC interaction. Will I contact the right airport at the right time ?

If you don't, what's the worst that can happen? Trust me, there's probably been bigger screw ups than what you're going to do. If you think about it a bit before hand, read the CFS, check your map, you'll probably do better than you think. Listen to the Terminal frequency some times and the guys flying big planes screw it up all the time. Sometimes the controller gets frustrated if he has to repeat a long clearance twice. Not that one should be ok with being a screw up, but in the big scheme of things, talking to controllers ain't that scary. Just do it.

I would like to add to that, since we are talking about a trip to Pelee Island, that in my personal opinion and experience the Toronto Terminal / GTA area controllers are excellent controllers who are doing a fantastic job. I've never experienced a controller being rude to me or anyone else on the frequency and I've heard them dealing with all kinds of 'weird screw ups'. Those guys are very professional and patient, even/especially when it comes to VFR traffic. I think ATC could make a cross country, even into unfamiliar territory even easier. If you request flight following, and if they can they are more than happy to accommodate you, ATC will provide you with traffic advisories as well as frequency changes. And they usually also wouldn't just let you fly into restricted airspace, if you are concerned about that. So if anything, in my opinion ATC makes the cross country easier for you as opposed to vice versa.

[trey kule]

I have had pretty much all my students finish in about 55 hrs or less. I had a couple that took longer, but I think the longest would have been about 70 hrs. Too many instructors waste too much time flying. I usually do training flight of about 1.5 hrs. There is never a free moment- on the way to the practice area I go over emergencies, pilotage, etc.

And there is a big reason why you are finishing students below 80 hours.

As the objective is to train to a standard, the less hours it takes not only saved money, but allows people to fly the extra 20 or 30 hours after they get their license. More fun to scare your family and friends, and good experience.

Instructors blame students for attitude, unprepared ness , infrequent flying and poor table manners.
Students blame the FTU, the instructor and Stephen Harper and Rob Ford.
Perhaps instead of pointing the finger it would be a good idea to look in the mirror first and ask yourself what you can do to make training better.

Of course there is nothing you can do if your instructor decides to do things like teach forced approaches under the hood is there? Yes. Spend some time and read the flight syllabus and standards. If what your instructor is teaching, or not teaching seems a bit off, ask them about it. Ask the CFI, and if you dont like the answer , get a new instructor.

A PPL is an education. Get the basics and the license, then go out and enjoy. If you can afford 80 hours it is much better for both your own enjoyment and experience to do the last 30 hours as a licensed pilot

[Rookie50]

I will add a few thoughts for WKF,

A lot of post PPL flying --- and many I sense never move on from the monthly rent-a -plane-for- an hour circuits practice area and $100 hamburger to the same old airports --- (btw I almost never do this -- pretty boring in Ontario unless it's with a first time Pax or something)

Anyway to develop as a ppl or cpl, in my 600 hr hour experience -- high timers don't laugh -- is to face new challenges in aviation, challenge ones comfort zone and overcome that fear / lack of comfort.

I revel in doing that, and it keeps avaition fresh and alive! And there are a million ways to do this, which build confidence, experience and courage for the next barrier. And I'm 45 now myself, age is not a barrier, it's a state of mine. Age is between your ears.

So -- for some it's that first long CC, first overwater, first night, USA, IFR.....the list goes on.

Mine this year, a big one, was flying up in northern Ontario -- and I don't mean Muskoka --- in the winter, which I did several times, in pretty cold temps. I asked a lot of questions, prepared survival options etc., then went and did it. I was the only GA guy flying around, let me tell you. And dealing with tie downs, plug ins (when you can find one or both at all) weather and wing covers in -30, is not the most enjoyable thing at times. But there was purpose -- and I toughened up some more. It's pretty satisfying to be one of the very few to be flying around in the winter, because I choose not to stay in my comfort zone. Learned a lot, too, about winter flying I never knew.

Next will be some training -- although I don't plan this kind of mission, I might get caught - for night IMC approaches to minimums. I'm very current daytime, I know my plane well, so I'm ready.

Find someone to go with you, to break barriers, if you need that. Mentors are invaluable.

[imac0960]

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who thinks 80hrs for the PPL is unreasonable. I understand why it takes some people longer than other but to turn to someone and say, "You'll need $25K to become a Private Pilot" is absolutely absurd.

-Edit for spelling

[Colonel Sanders]

Back when the Rec Permit came out in the mid 90's
I took a guy from zero to Rec Permit flight test in
exactly 25 hours on a 172.

He had no prior flight experience. He did not fly
very often. However, he did study pretty hard,
which is something I often don't see amongst
students.

There isn't a whole lot of difference between a
Rec Permit and a PPL - steep turn, hood and
the nav goat rope, which I can teach to PPL
flight test standards in perhaps 5 hours.

So, 20 years ago, I could take a guy from zero
to PPL in 30 hours on a 172. If he did what I
said.

The funny thing is that absolutely no one has
any interest in saving $$$. They're just as
happy to spend 80 hours of flight training to
get a PPL.

So be it. Canadians love to pay high taxes,
too. Can't get that either, but can't argue
with it.

overcome that fear

What is this "fear" thing that you speak of?
I am not being funny. I really don't understand
when people talk about this "fear" thing. How
does it work? I'm not kidding. I don't get it.

Back to x/c flying. It's really pretty simple.

- when the wx is good
- when you have lots of fuel
- draw a line on the map
- check NOTAM at your destination.
- get runway layout, elevation, freqs
- fly it with your GPS

Enjoy the trip. Turn the radio down. Plug
your MP3 player into your ICS or headset.
Play your tunes and look outside and enjoy
the view.

My main problem doing x/c is staying awake.
It's tempting to doze off in the sunshine and
take a cat nap.

I really feel at home in the sky. It's enormously
relaxing, being thousands of feet away from
anything else.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

Lots of good advice/experiences being shared here, that's for sure. I hope more newbs than just me are reading it.

Pertaining to the issue of the "80 hour PPL", let me remind people that it is rarely the intention of students to spend more time learning something than they need. It is more insidious than that ~ or a slippery slope, if that image suits it better.

My instructor was a guy who was similar to my age, knew a ton about plane engines, was a class 2 ( I think ) and we got along really well. Since I felt like I was learning from him, I found little need to question my choice. After 20 hours, I had no idea if I was where I should be or not. Then along comes 40 hours. Should I know more than I do ? I dunno. I know a lot more than I did 4 months ago, but how close am I ?

I liken it to a trip to see your doctor. Your friends can make all sorts or recommendations. You can read all you want, spend hours on the internet or whatever. But when you are in that office, the doctor has the credentials and your only choice is to believe him or try another doctor. Unless the doctor says some obviously dubious shite, you are probably going to stick with them, especially once you have formed some type of relationship.

It's tricky.

And the more I read from people here who are instructors or have instructed, the more clearly it is revealed to me that the single most important factor in whether you will get your PPL quickly is ...whether your instructor is willing and capable of helping you earn it quickly. Yes, if you don't study, or don't fly often, or are just plain slow in picking up new skills, then you are doomed for a high number of hours. But if your instructor isn't good at cutting through the bs and emphasizing the essential skills, then it won't matter how prepared you are. The instructor has already decided that you will be ready in 70-80 hours.

Looking back, I needed someone who listened to my questions and then told me they weren't important and then dragged me out to the plane to fly it. I have all sorts of time on my hands now to argue whether something is "differential drag" or "adverse yaw". My time would have been better spent in the plane and not at the whiteboard. There was too much of that for sure.

But like I said. My PPL wasn't just something I needed to get my CPL. It was sort of a bucket list thing, and I was savouring the entire journey, all 80 hours of it. Only now, in light of these types of threads, do I feel that I was somewhat exploited.

If I had a time machine, I would go back 3 years and get the Colonel, or anyone else who was up for the challenge, to get me my PPL in 45 hours.

[trey kule]

I think you have it pretty much nailed down. It all amounts to trusting your instructor...

[photofly]

There isn't a whole lot of difference between a
Rec Permit and a PPL - steep turn, hood and
the nav goat rope, which I can teach to PPL
flight test standards in perhaps 5 hours.

Plus an additional 5 hours of mandatory instrument time for the PPL. And the extra hours of cross-country required. So that takes the 25 up to about 40.

I'm open to suggestions for making most valuable use of those 5 hours - straight and level and a level 180 turn takes about 30 minutes to get to PPL standard. Any ideas for what to do with the other 4:30?

[Colonel Sanders]

Good question.

NOT partial panel and timed turns. If a
PPL gets into cloud accidentally, and then
his vacuum pump fails, he won't be able
to diagnose it in real time, so he's going
to die, so why bother teaching it?

I like to work on the fundamentals. The
student should be able to function as a
particularly crappy biological autopilot,
and be able to hold a heading and
altitude, and be able to transition to
any other arbitrary heading or altitude
using a rate one turn and +/- 500 fpm.

Once the student has mastered that, I
like the "vector" them, ATC-style to a
non-precision cloud breakout below 500
AGL at a mile short final. Then I ask them
to land. That's a satisfying graduation
exercise for a PPL under the hood.

One of the most important things to teach
students about instrument flying is the
transition, which is what will kill them.
And what killed JFK, jr.

[Shiny Side Up]

The things the Colonel said are good, I'll add what I do. One should keep in mind though that while instrument time is boring for the instructor, the practice is useful for the student. One of he things I find instructors do poorly is do it once and then roar on, call it good and then wonder why the student has problems with it later. Drives me nuts when I see all of a student's hood time is accumulated in 5 minute snippets. While possibly efficient seeming, you don't get a good measure of if they can do it.

Lots of people don't master instrument flying after a half hour though. One of the things to show them is make them do it for an hour straight, its somewhat fatiguing and most people will get worse at it the longer they do it. They need to realise that they don't want to plow into cloud if they haven't done it and practiced it. The second thing to demonstrate is to make them do turns in one direction for most of the hour, then switch direction. Their brain (and inner ear) gets used to the left turn (or right if you choose) and the switch usually throws them. One can also do a demo of why steep angles of bank are undesirable in the soup for the same reasons. Simply by having the student do a few 30 degree bank turns and then see how well they do afterwards.

Lastly, I do the emergency descent through cloud as it appears in the Cessna manual. With of course the specific warnings that go with it. So they know its there if shit really hits the fan, but its a good demonstration of how one can control the airplane with mostly the rudder. Its a good way to get yourself un-disoriented as well, paradoxically, take your hands off the controls.

So, 20 years ago, I could take a guy from zero
to PPL in 30 hours on a 172. If he did what I
said.

The thing I find is no one ever does what one says. Lots of students are convinced they're going to be some sort of phenom and have unlocked their own secret to learning how to fly. You know, because I'm clueless. So when I outlay how to do it to finish quickly and save money, They say "ok that sounds good but I'm going to do it this way instead." Fill your boots, you just pay me more money.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

Back to x/c flying. It's really pretty simple.

Enjoy the trip. Turn the radio down. Plug
your MP3 player into your ICS or headset.
Play your tunes and look outside and enjoy
the view.

My main problem doing x/c is staying awake.
It's tempting to doze off in the sunshine and
take a cat nap.

I really feel at home in the sky. It's enormously
relaxing, being thousands of feet away from
anything else.

In reading this for a second time, I have to comment on what I see is a bit of a disconnect. I often read that the radio is over-utilized and that your best defense against a conflict is keeping your eyes open. And now I am told to crank up the tunes and relax. Well, not many people are good at being both vigilant and relaxed. This may be why flying can prove more of a task than a holiday for me. There is no relaxing. Not when I have the idea planted in my head that there are planes out there trying to hit me.

You have obviously flown a pantload of hours. While you are kickin back to your ipod, have you every been rudely interrupted by a speck in your windshield growing bigger ? Perhaps I spend too much time in busy areas, but I have never felt like I could relax for more than two seconds.

[Shiny Side Up]

Not when I have the idea planted in my head that there are planes out there trying to hit me.

But they're not. One could speculate that possibly pilots are so bad that it would be better if they were actively trying... but no, lets not get into that. Realise that there are junctures in a typical flight where the chances of encountering traffic are larger than usual, and know where the most likely place in your windshield is that they're going to be. Don't look for traffic harder, look for it smarter.

When one gets airborne there's always the chance that yes, you might unfortunately inhabit the same airspace as some idiot who doesn't play by the rules, ain't paying attention or may be maliciously acting stupid. He might be flying something faster than you and sneak up on your six o'clock low position and chop your tail off with his prop. You won't see him coming. You won't hear him and you won't know he's there until the moment of impact. Does this mean everyone should be doing some sort of crazy ivan turn to look below and behind them just in case? Maybe everyone should fly a random jinking pattern as if you're avoiding triple A? No. You could but it might not help in the end, and if your number is up, your number is up. If you spend your time worrying about the outside chances, well you might as well not leave the house. Life's a risk, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be any interesting. For the most part though, just make sure you aren't one of the ones not watching in front of yourself trying to be the guy you're worrying about.

[Colonel Sanders]

have you every been rudely interrupted by a speck in your windshield growing bigger ?

Sure. No big deal. However, I suspect
that the difference between you and I is
that I really don't mind being close to
another airplane. It's great fun, in fact.



It's what I do. Sometime, try a front quarter
rejoin. I won't say it's the most fun you can
have with your pants on, but it's in the top ten.

I suspect it's a matter of attitude. When you
see another aircraft, perhaps you are thinking,
"He's going to kill me". When I see another
aircraft I think, "Whoopee! Someone's come
out to play!"

When I hear someone on the radio at an
uncontrolled airport, and their voice has gone
up two octaves, I tell them, "Relax. You couldn't
hit me if you tried"

And it's true. Most people have no clue about
how to lead a moving target. I can count on
the fingers on one hand, the number of pilots
in WWII that could reliably hit a deflection shot.

[Shiny Side Up]

have you every been rudely interrupted by a speck in your windshield growing bigger ?

Here I do it on purpose so you can see. Note where you look for other traffic that you're going to collide with - its not "all over" the sky. Where should most of your attention be outside the window? Play heads up hockey.

[mike123]

The other option is to find a school that is doing an air cadet program. Ask them if you can be put on the same syllabus and schedule as the cadets. They're done in 45 hrs.

Had a few kids who got their licences through cadet program come for check outs, none of them had ever fully stalled an airplane before.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

have you every been rudely interrupted by a speck in your windshield growing bigger ?

Here I do it on purpose so you can see. Note where you look for other traffic that you're going to collide with - its not "all over" the sky. Where should most of your attention be outside the window? Play heads up hockey.

That was interesting to watch.

What kind of heading differential was there between the two of you ? With the fisheye effect it looked something like around 60 degrees, give or take. Am I even close ? I suppose the scenarios that would have me sweating the most would be the ones closer to 180 degrees, like someone heading 010 and the other at 170. In that case, they would close in pretty quickly I assume.

The other scenario is flying <3000, especially underneath a class C or whatever. That's where I would expect you see a lot of traffic going every which way and sandwiched between 500 feet of airspace. Obviously good to avoid these areas altogether, if possible.

[jump154]

The other scenario is flying <3000, especially underneath a class C or whatever. That's where I would expect you see a lot of traffic going every which way and sandwiched between 500 feet of airspace. Obviously good to avoid these areas altogether, if possible.

That's easy, call up Terminal and go up 500'. How I trainsit the Brampton-Caledon corridor all the time, just fly over the top of the melee with the help of someone with Radar. Get good shortcuts that way as well. Less stress.