WestJet Mainline/Encore Hiring pool

[watermeth]

are you talking about Mainline Bede ?

[racer-pilot-rob]

I have over 3000 multi PIC turbine. Plus another 600 or so multi PIC piston.
another 1700 or so tail wheel and aerobatic.
as well as charter ops and multi crew glass cockpit, MPL, ATPL, CRM, and more.
I have even taken part in a Dash 8 ground school before.

[mmm..bacon]

Maybe you've got too much experience, and they wonder if you'll take the wages on offer?

[racer-pilot-rob]

maybe that's it. How is it there are lots of ways to not have a job I am fully capable of doing, probably far better than most. If I am over qualified, they should be begging me
I am capable (and have been) teaching F18 pilots how to do long forgotten maneuvers, but I can't join the forces because I don't have a bachelor of arts degree. I can't join the airlines because I am over qualified. I can't go overseas because I don't speak a foreign language when aviation is mandatory English. I even help AME's when fixing the airplane when asked as a mechanical engineering technologist, but I do not have a job when my students are working as highly trained individuals.
Starting to think its not about talent, but about who will work for nothing and shut up about it.
I love flying, always have. And the people in it are far above par, So what is my reward for years of dedication to an amazing industry.....?????

Yup, you may sense my frustration.
But I will still smile when you meet me and ask about flying.

[Bede]

Watermeth, WJ and WJE have 500 mpic requirement.

Race Bob, you're not over qualified. Strange you never got a call.

[furthadawgs]

500 MPIC wasn't a requirement when I got hired at WJ a few years ago.

[x-wind]

An eMail stating my application has been received & thank you for applying - was sent to me after I submitted my application.

[racer-pilot-rob]

Think that's just computer generated reply. I did not even get that the first time I applied, following suggestion above, I re-applied and got that same email. But I got it within seconds of sending, so I don't think anyone actually looked at it that fast lol. But so happy to see that I got the email this time around. Now if only they would re-start hiring again.....
Think there are a lot of us on here who have been trying for a while.

[leftoftrack]

Think that's just computer generated reply. I did not even get that the first time I applied, following suggestion above, I re-applied and got that same email. But I got it within seconds of sending, so I don't think anyone actually looked at it that fast lol. But so happy to see that I got the email this time around. Now if only they would re-start hiring again.....
Think there are a lot of us on here who have been trying for a while.

Are they not hiring right now? Their taking a tail a month

[Lateralus]

Think that's just computer generated reply. I did not even get that the first time I applied, following suggestion above, I re-applied and got that same email. But I got it within seconds of sending, so I don't think anyone actually looked at it that fast lol. But so happy to see that I got the email this time around. Now if only they would re-start hiring again.....
Think there are a lot of us on here who have been trying for a while.

Are they not hiring right now? Their taking a tail a month

Yes, both mainline and Encore are currently hiring.

[HB777LW]

Watermeth, WJ and WJE have 500 mpic requirement.

Race Bob, you're not over qualified. Strange you never got a call.

Interesting that decision making is only credible if you have two engines hanging off of you.

Hi
It's still required in the matrix. We use the 500 as a base for simply building your decision making skills.
Cheers

So the single pilot IFR caravan drivers aren't qualified because their valuable experience is logged in a single engine machine? Or am I reading the information wrong? Similarly, how is it that mpic is the determining factor for decision making ability and not spic or even loads of 704/705 second-in-command in a flight deck similar to a Q400? Last I heard, it's a joint crew decision up front. Surely an individual after so many hours in the right seat in a commercial operation should have enough experience to make decisions in a Q400 setup? Jazz is doing it with 250 hour wonders... Kind of unfair to asses an individuals decision making ability based on multi-pic. How about a 4000 hour NCA or Sunwest Dash F/O with 2000 hours on type flying in restrictive outfits like contrails where upgrades are hard to come by and perhaps want to get an out to an environment like WJE where upgrades are total time / seniority based? Are we seriously arguing that a guy or gal like this isn't suitable for an upgrade assessment when the time comes at Encore just because he or she doesn't have prior multi-pic? If an individual spends 10 years in the right seat of a 737 and can't upgrade, then the 500 hours of mpic won't be the reason they can all of a sudden upgrade 10 years down the road. Surely after 10 years of flying in a commercial outfit like WJ, a First Officer should have seen enough to be a worthy Captain. The 500 mpic prior is great, but can't seriously be the end all be all for why this person will be a great F/O and one day Captain? There are a lot of 704 and 705 F/O's that don't have much mpic but can make "good decisions" in complex scenarios that otherwise a navajo driver couldn't identify if their life depended on it. I don't care what anyone says, but with adequate time on type and suitable captain's an F/O can quite nicely transition into the left seat of a Q400. So bombing around 500 hours in a navajo doing VFR legs is more valuable than 500 hours in a commercial IFR operation flying similar equipment to what Encore / Mainline operates? Because you have to put on engine covers by yourself when parking a navajo at night in cyzf and that job is delegated to someone else in an operation like Encore? I'm interested in someone arguing this to be the case. I'd like to think a lot more goes into the qualifications of an individual other than quantitative measures in a logbook.

Just my 2 cents

*Edited for grammar, yes it was bad

[JoeyBarton]

What is the percentage of flowthrough in the fall mainline courses? Still around 25%?

[Etihad]

HB777,
I pretty much share the same sentiments. As the scenario you described is the position that I'm in. 3000 on the Dash with internal references and couldn't even qualify for an interview. Just a computer generated reply saying thanks but you don't meet our qualifications. We don't have to agree or like it but Encore's min requirements are what they are.

[Krimson]

HB777,

I'll take a stab at defending it. When you're flying that navajo, you are likely dealing with more than the plane. The pressure from the company to just get the job done while the plane is falling apart. It builds character, and learn how to deal with a lot more issues that you will see outside from the 705 world. Instead of watching the 705 captain just turn down anything because it's out of the normal, someone flying navajos in the winter knows what it is like to make life and death decisions every day, flying into small airports with no winter maint, with a plane that just keeps breaking. Those first 500 mpic hours are when you are on your own, or probably with an FO who just got off the ramp and hasn't flown for 2 years. It's those moments where you have close calls and think, man, I won't ever do that again. They build character, and good decision making.
The FO for life does not have to see the underlying pressures of getting the job done, or putting your licence and job on the line. Things that a 705 captain doesn't have to worry about either.

I am curious about this though, could you name one situation where a seasoned navajo driver couldn't get out of but a 705 FO could?

There are a lot of 704 and 705 F/O's that don't have much mpic but can make "good decisions" in complex scenarios that otherwise a navajo driver couldn't identify if their life depended on it.

[Etihad]

I definitely see your point! It can surely go both ways though.

[TheStig]

Your question was already answered you just didn't see it through your own self serving bias.

I know its cliche but airlines don't hire pilots they hire future Captains. To be frank, if you've sat in the right seat since flight school you've never been a Captain. If you had, you'd realize the difference between flying an airplane and being ultimately held responsible for everyone on board. I don't think it's too much for WJ to require that the pilots who are one day going to be commanding their aircraft have some prior experience doing so.

Hi
It's still required in the matrix. We use the 500 as a base for simply building your decision making skills.
Cheers

So the single pilot IFR caravan drivers aren't qualified because their valuable experience is logged in a single engine machine? Or am I reading the information wrong? Similarly, how is it that mpic is the determining factor for decision making ability and not spic or even loads of 704/705 second-in-command in a flight deck similar to a Q400? Last I heard, it's a joint crew decision up front. Surely an individual after so many hours in the right seat in a commercial operation should have enough experience to make decisions in a Q400 setup? Jazz is doing it with 250 hour wonders... Kind of unfair to asses an individuals decision making ability based on multi-pic. How about a 4000 hour NCA or Sunwest Dash F/O with 2000 hours on type flying in restrictive outfits like contrails where upgrades are hard to come by and perhaps want to get an out to an environment like WJE where upgrades are total time / seniority based? Are we seriously arguing that a guy or gal like this isn't suitable for an upgrade assessment when the time comes at Encore just because he or she doesn't have prior multi-pic? If an individual spends 10 years in the right seat of a 737 and can't upgrade, then the 500 hours of mpic won't be the reason they can all of a sudden upgrade 10 years down the road. Surely after 10 years of flying in a commercial outfit like WJ, a First Officer should have seen enough to be a worthy Captain. The 500 mpic prior is great, but can't seriously be the end all be all for why this person will be a great F/O and one day Captain? There are a lot of 704 and 705 F/O's that don't have much mpic but can make "good decisions" in complex scenarios that otherwise a navajo driver couldn't identify if their life depended on it. I don't care what anyone says, but with adequate time on type and suitable captain's an F/O can quite nicely transition into the left seat of a Q400. So bombing around 500 hours in a navajo doing VFR legs is more valuable than 500 hours in a commercial IFR operation flying similar equipment to what Encore / Mainline operates? Because you have to put on engine covers by yourself when parking a navajo at night in cyzf and that job is delegated to someone else in an operation like Encore? I'm interested in someone arguing this to be the case. I'd like to think a lot more goes into the qualifications of an individual other than quantitative measures in a logbook.

Just my 2 cents

*Edited for grammar, yes it was bad

[Navaids]

So what is the difference between flying a caravan SPIFR to flying a Navajo SPIFR? (The only diffrence I can think of is the Navajo went mechanical on me more than the van) Or a PC12 captain with glass cockpit experience relevent to a Q400? All of these jobs build good decision making skills. What's the big deal with Multi engine ops?

[TheStig]

So what is the difference between flying a caravan SPIFR to flying a Navajo SPIFR? (The only diffrence I can think of is the Navajo went mechanical on me more than the van) Or a PC12 captain with glass cockpit experience relevent to a Q400? All of these jobs build good decision making skills. What's the big deal with Multi engine ops?

I'll agree with you on the C208 vs. PA31, there isn't much difference, but I'd also be amazed if WJ has hired anyone who spent their entire career prior to joining flying a Navajo SPIFR. You're trying to pick holes in hiring criteria that don't actually exist in reality. On the Q400 vs PC-12, there is a huge difference. One is a single engine 703/704 single pilot certified aircraft and the other is a twin turbine, multi-crew airliner. I'd say in that instance the big difference is the multi-crew aspect, the size of the aircraft, the differences in the nature of the flying. A PC12 Captain (in a multi-crew operation) with an airline career ambitions, should be well aware of the hiring criteria for the airlines. Airlines looking to hire pilots with multi-crew, multi-engine command experience is nothing new.

[JTrain]

I think two different things are being confused here.

1. WestJet hiring (directly on to the Boeing 737)

-and-

2. Encore hiring (either as a Q400 FO or as a direct-entry Q400 captain)

It has always been difficult to get hired with WestJet. Typically you need a lot of total time, MPIC, some 704/705 time, and not to mention several inside references. With Encore folks starting to flow to WestJet, the number of interview slots and newhires at WestJet is becoming finite and limited. I have heard from reliable sources there are multiple thousand qualified resumes in the WestJet database, and that close to a thousand have insider references. If WJ does not call you for a B737 interview, it is nothing personal....there are just a lot of qualified folks being considered. Additionally, with AC not interviewing, WJ has become one of the prime outlets for people looking for career progression.

Encore has been hiring folks with between 3000-5000 hours for the better part of the year. There may be some with more or some with less than that who have been hired. Encore is a very attainable goal for folks with flight times in that neighborhood. They are hiring 10+/month for the remainder of this year, and I have heard are planning 140+ for next year. If you have the right experience and enough time, they may even offer you a direct-entry captain slot. All Encore newhires get WestJet seniority numbers. If Encore doesn't call you initially, keep updating. If you are competitive, you should be called. They need good people.

[watermeth]

How long is upgrade time at mainline now ? Ten years ?
Thanks guys.

[Teeg]

Ha!

I think the only people who know what the hiring "criteria" is, are the ones doing the hiring. I think pilots drive themselves crazy it, you need this amount of MPIC, or you need this experience yadda yadda.

Case in point. I was offered an interview on the 37, with NO 704 time, with one internal reference; who's been working there for less than 2 years. When I asked Gina what position it was for, my jaw dropped.

Boys and Girl, its a lottery ticket. if you don't get it, just keep applying.

T

[leftoftrack]

How long is upgrade time at mainline now ? Ten years ?
Thanks guys.

Depending on the number of widebody aircraft they buy, number of leases that are renewed, the price of oil the global economy. And a whole host of other issues I'd bet somewhere between 4 years and they will never upgrade anyone else, but getting on now puts you behind 300ish encore guys and in a year that number should double. Good thing you can make money as an FO on the 37

[HB777LW]

HB777,

I'll take a stab at defending it. When you're flying that navajo, you are likely dealing with more than the plane. The pressure from the company to just get the job done while the plane is falling apart. It builds character, and learn how to deal with a lot more issues that you will see outside from the 705 world. Instead of watching the 705 captain just turn down anything because it's out of the normal, someone flying navajos in the winter knows what it is like to make life and death decisions every day, flying into small airports with no winter maint, with a plane that just keeps breaking. Those first 500 mpic hours are when you are on your own, or probably with an FO who just got off the ramp and hasn't flown for 2 years. It's those moments where you have close calls and think, man, I won't ever do that again. They build character, and good decision making.
The FO for life does not have to see the underlying pressures of getting the job done, or putting your licence and job on the line. Things that a 705 captain doesn't have to worry about either.

I am curious about this though, could you name one situation where a seasoned navajo driver couldn't get out of but a 705 FO could?

There are a lot of 704 and 705 F/O's that don't have much mpic but can make "good decisions" in complex scenarios that otherwise a navajo driver couldn't identify if their life depended on it.

I think the problem with the matter is that it's 500mpic that you must have, and that 500pic isn't good enough. So then is instructing pic useless too then? When is that last time you took your navajo down to a field to teach low level navigation, precautionary approaches, forced approaches, or how many times have you put your "life in danger" by giving the controls to a student for the first time doing their "spin" or climbing turn power on stall with flaps 40 hanging out of your wings? I don't buy that those "life or death" decisions are something that are only attained by a captain in the navajo/king air environment. As far as I'm concerned, you have many people doing many different type of PIC flying that teaches some valuable lessons within the job itself. I think that mpic is just a way for Encore to just weed out resume's. If a 200 hour wonder can come out of oxford aviation academy, go to Ryan Air, fly for 3000 hours and end up at Emirates flying a 777 for 7 years, then upgrade and be a captain taking hundreds of people across the world, then a Dash 8 driver with 2000 hours on type can be hired by Encore and be assessed for an upgrade and probably soar through with higher success than a 500 hour Navajo driver. Here's a rhetorical question, why did Encore all of a sudden have to hire a bunch of Captain's again? Sounds like all these king air / navajo prospects didn't work out too well when their time came for upgrades. What else was created for upgrades at Encore after this horrendous fail? Another rhetorical question. Air Canada does it all the time. People with no turbine or mpic experience make it through (some pic is as useless as glacier flying - since that seems to be what most pilots look at being useless), and some of these people are now Captain's at rouge also going across the world. My case-in-point? You don't need mpic to be a good captain. So you sure as hell can't determine mpic being the golden ticket to hiring people. I have observed many retards with a ton of mpic. It's not mpic that makes them retards or not. (How arrogant of me to say that someone is a retard)... I'm not that amazing myself, good? Have you ever been through the command process at AC? EK? QR? KLM? DLH? Trust me, if mpic was the reason you can' be a captain, these companies wouldn't be so heavily involved in their upgrade process of their F/O's. These F/O's have north of 7 or 8000 hours on type, and even that isn't the qualifier for your upgrade (kind of making my point useless in the argument as well). As an example at EK, you have a command interview, a multitude of hoops to jump through that evaluate your command presence, leadership, assertiveness, management styles, leadership styles, diplomacy, advocacy, the list of adjectives go onwards. Then there are line flying and simulator assessments to see if you're ready. Complexintentions can shine more light on this, but the process is upwards of several months. I have heard as high of a time frame as 9 months at AC to become a Captain. 1 year to become Captain at KLM. And if you don't pass? You get coaching. You get to see a shrink, what ever it is you are lacking in, you work through so that you can become a captain. I don't see no mpic being the sole determination of your upgradability at these companies? It seems to be more about the person wearing those 4 bars, and less about the mpic that individual has. That's what is seriously lacking here in Canada. You have mpic? Come and fly my plane as commander! And I've been in your shoes in the past, how many F/O's here agree with the level of retardation that is observed in many of these "DCT" entries? I think 9 out of 10 direct entries is a realistic ratio. Most of the time not due to the fault of their own. Again, how shitty of me to say this. A good company with a solid training and support program can make a leader out of a large chunk of their pilot's. Look at Qatar's quick to command program? 4000 hrs in a turboprop regardleas of pic sic and you qualify to go right seat A320 and look at an upgrade in about 2-3 years. What about mpic? No big deal. Individualistic cases where people can't upgrade are certainly there, and the difference of 500 hours scaring themselves won't be the case-in-point on why they are all of a sudden upgradeable. And I won't buy that it's the book smart aspect of an oxford aviation graduate that makes them a good commander. In a functional industry, you come in as a junior, and make your way up to the top as a commander through learning from others. Putting a noob into the Navajo to obtain their first 500 mpic is as dangerous as a 250 hour wonder sitting beside a 0 hour wonder teaching them how to fly. The experiences obtained are equally rewarding. This industry is screwed up. A 4000 hour, 2000 on type F/O can't upgrade (even though they are able to in reality), yet a 500 mpic Navajo driver with 3500 hours total time can come in and be their captain because they meet some technicality like Contrails, or some bs equivalent to it. And Krimson, I'll give you a scenario where a 705 F/O can get you out of a situation that a Navajo direct entry captain can't. You're flying in VNAV PTH, you hit a FL240B restriction at a waypoint followed by FL210A waypoint, the plane goes for an infinite nosedive. And no, this is nothing that gets covered in training or line indoc because it's an ISM of a certain type of RNAV STAR and the Collins FMC. To make it better, you're IMC, night time, and have crossing traffic at FL200. The answer isn't VS. The stig, you do have a point in what you say. But I revert back to my belief that you bring in juniors into the F/O rank, and work with them to become Captain's. This concept that an F/O can get stuck in this industry as an F/O is a serious slap in the face and is a predicament to exactly how weak our industry is with regards to promoting within. It's all become a matrix of how can we get the job done by checking some boxes. Not safely operating. So long as mpic is the hiring determination of jobs like Encore and the aforementioned, A 4000 hour, 2000 hour on type and 500 spic F/O will be a far superior Captain on his own machine than a 3500 hour, 500 mpic with 0 time on type will be on the same machine. Ultimately an upgrade is based on a lot more than your logbook. That's my opinion, and I respect your opinions too.

Happy thanksgiving!

[leftoftrack]

Is the return button on your keyboard broken?

[JoeyBarton]

Really that's all you have to say leftoftrack?

Give the guy some credit for that great post.