Best Bear gun?

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:07 am

Well, here goes.....
I have spent 3 yrs working in the bush ( between '89 and '93 ). I was employed as a "dirt bagger" , line cutter , pad builder , prospector. I worked in B.C. , Alaska , N.W.T ,and the Yukon. In that time I saw bears almost every day, sometimes more than once a day. The bears I saw were both Grizzlies and Black bears. Over the course of these encounters I was charged 7 times ( 5 by Grizzlies, including once being treed for 5 1/2 hours while said Grizzly ate everything I owned, and twice by Black bears ), so I have some experience in this matter.
In all those charges, when I wasn't shitting my pants, only once did I have time to react fast enough to get the drop on the bear. I can tell you that if I had been trying to use a gun I would probably not be alive to write this post. I was shaking so bad that I doubt I could have hit the broadside of a barn let alone a fast moving bear in dense bush. However, what I did use that time was the good old reliable bear mace! I didn't have to aim well, just point and shoot.... dropped that grizzly like a ton of bricks! After I got the @#$! outta there ( and cleaned my underwear!!!! ) the Grizzly recovered and a magnificent creature ( although probably a very pissed off one ) went about it's business none the worse for wear ,and maybe just a little less likely to come around humans again for a long time.

So in the light of Doc's original post some 10 pages ago I would have to vote that the best bear gun to use in an emergency, is not a gun at all, but IMHO it's bear mace ( be careful when you use it though, because that shit stings when you get even a minute amount of it in your eyes!!). If your intention is to hunt bears than I wouldn't have a clue what gun to use!!

There I'm done boys ...........have at'er

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:55 pm

My good chu me, considering that this was one of the suggested "bear guns":

you may conclude some of this thread is not to be taken all that seriously?

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:57 pm

After all the extravagances and entertainment, I think chu me's reply is one of the more useful posts in the thread. Interesting insight- good stuff.

2R · Post by 2R » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:44 pm

What about a FN 57 ?
just in case the bear is wearing body armour

Anyone fired one yet ?

fortis risk · Post by **fortis risk** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:16 pm

Glock 20, fires a 10mm round. same caliber as the .40s&w but a lot, and I mean a lot more push. 15 rounds in the clip gives you buckets of firepower. The ten will penetrate and destroy and is easy to carry.

SuperchargedRS · Post by **SuperchargedRS** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:46 pm

lol glock, watching a little too much 50cent on MTV eh? why dont you just get a rape whistle

Remington 870 Marine Magnum w/ speed feed stock, loaded with 3 inch rifled slugs staggered with 00 3 inch in the tube,

12g flare rounds one side of speed feed stock, bird shot other side (for bagging food / getting found). Done and done.

Get a nice sling too (there is a "safari" sling that is good to pack around all day while climbing over logs and whatnot)

One other note, NO MATTER WHAT YOU GET, you need to be putting a box or two down range at least every two weeks or so, otherwise dont bother with the firearm; this is much like your license, a pilot who is not current is a bad idea waiting to happen, as is a shooter who is not proficient with his weapon.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:48 am

fortis risk wrote:Glock 20, fires a 10mm round. same caliber as the .40s&w but a lot, and I mean a lot more push. 15 rounds in the clip gives you buckets of firepower. The ten will penetrate and destroy and is easy to carry.

15 rds eh, can you say possession of a prohibited weapon. Without a ATC, your also looking at I don't think that's terribly realistic 750 ft lbs, even the 30 carbine has 1400 ft/lbs at the muzzle, and most people wouldn't use it on deer. remember, we're not hunting, we are talking last ditch defense here. 12ga. pump, or 45-70 lever. momentum, energy, ease of handling think this marstar.ca/gf-norinco/N870-14.00.shtm, or this. hunt101.com/data/500/DSCF0347.jpg, the one in the middle.

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:08 am

I'm not convinced that there's any advantage to using 3" shells over 2-3/4"s. The only thing you're gonna be killing any faster is your shoulder and accuracy. I'd rather stick to the shorter shells and stand a good chance of putting the second and third shells in the boiler room than having one boomer go off and hoping for the best with the rest.

It's an understandable thought though, seems overgunning to compensate for lack of practice is popular these days.

SuperchargedRS · Post by **SuperchargedRS** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:47 am

Take a look at the ballistic tables on the magnum shells vs the standard rounds.

The lever action gun is a dumb idea for a bush gun, look at the versatility of the 12g flares, bird, buck, mag round etc. Not to mention the price of the rounds to stay proficient.

Not Even · Post by **Not Even** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:02 pm

Marlin 1895GS 45/70 loaded with 405 grain hard cast solids moving along at a mild 1600 PFS anyone who has experienced the power of a load like this will know what I am talking about don't be fooled by the low velocity either. Its like getting hit by a train at 50 MPH as opposed to being hit by a ferarri at 200

kenlwilliams · Post by **kenlwilliams** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:55 am

Flew in YT, NT, NU for 9 years - have medevaced several Grizzly attack victime (2 out of 3 attacks, 3rd died) Here are my picks:

12GA, 12 rounds (1xrubber slug/5xslug, 1xbanger/5x000 buck), it will feed from either mag selectively or alternating. Legal in Canada but not USA. Can also be used to fire signal flares

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh08-e.htm

In a short rifle I would go with a 45/70 (actually would get in .457 WWMagnum so could use various weights/powers of 45/70 as well as .410 and .457 Mag)

http://www.wildwestguns.com/copilot.html
http://www.wildwestguns.com/images/bigcopilotred1.jpg
http://www.wildwestguns.com/ammunition.html
http://www.wildwestguns.com/images/PowerChart.gif

In a long rifle I would use a modified M1 garand (5 round internal magazine) in .458 Win Mag

http://www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/ ... arand.html

i suppose you could fab up a folding stock like those used on a M1 Carbine - MUCH beefier however. Would be for easier carry not to use with stock folded - you'd not have a bone in your hand/wrist (or forehead!) unbroken like as not...

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:10 pm

Legal in Canada but not USA

I agree with your gun picks but I think you got that sentence backwards unless the laws have changed

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:01 pm

You'd be surprised what's legal up here and not down there.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:21 pm

yes but 12 rounds in a gun is illegal up here. 10 for handguns 5 for long guns are your legal limit in Canada. Unlessunless there is some REAL obscure loophole i don't know about.

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:58 am

For semi-auto actions, yes. But for pump, lever or bolt actions, there is no five round limit... however there are certain round restrictions for hunting applications. Whether whatever that thing is called is even on the import list, well that's another story I suppose.

kenlwilliams · Post by **kenlwilliams** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:20 pm

re: centerfile rifle mag limits in Canada

If the mag is detachable it is 5, if internal (think M1 Garand) it is 8

re: where the NS-2000 is legal

5 were imported to USA in the very late 90's - ATF decreed them to be destructive devices due to bullpup and 12 rounds. In Canada they are classed as a pump action shoygun, bullpup is not considered and mag size doesn't matter unless you try to take it hunting

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:34 am

kenlwilliams wrote:re: centerfile rifle mag limits in Canada

If the mag is detachable it is 5, if internal (think M1 Garand) it is 8

re: where the NS-2000 is legal

5 were imported to USA in the very late 90's - ATF decreed them to be destructive devices due to bullpup and 12 rounds. In Canada they are classed as a pump action shotgun, bullpup is not considered and mag size doesn't matter unless you try to take it hunting

Fail, read the last line

Q. What is the maximum number of cartridges that a firearm magazine can legally hold?

As set out in Criminal Code Regulations, some large-capacity magazines are prohibited regardless of the class of firearm to which the magazines are attached. As a general rule, the maximum magazine capacity is:

* 5 cartridges for most magazines designed for a semi-automatic centre-fire long gun; or
* 10 cartridges for most handgun magazines

A large-capacity magazine is not prohibited if it has been permanently altered so that it cannot hold more than the number of cartridges allowed by law. Acceptable ways to alter a magazine are set out in the regulations.

There is no limit to the magazine capacity for semi-automatic rim-fire long guns, or for other long guns that are not semi-automatics.

Slats · Post by **Slats** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:16 am

The thread lives!!

Kinda new to the whole firearm thing in that I'm hoping to challenge the exam next week (too far in the middle of nowhere to have a course available close by.) Been around firearms enough to feel confident for safety/the exam, but just scratching the surface of knowledge when it comes to ballistics, different firearm models, etc. Main reasons for wanting one is personal/bear protection (flying into prime grizz country) target shooting and some chicken hunting. Personal protection will be my top priority when it comes to a first purchase. I've read through this thread with great interest and got alot of good info and have settled on a Mossberg (the Marlin 1895 will come after saving up some

). They seem to make some really good affordable, specialized personal protection shotguns which is perfect for me since I don't see myself hunting anything I would need a field 12 guage for. My question is to those familiar with the Mossberg line....what, other than price, is the difference between the 500/590 series and the 930 series? After surfing around their site I can't seem to find anything definitive. Also is it worth getting the Marinecoat finish? I'm thinking that with proper care and maintenance a matte or blued finish will hold up just as well? Also any tips for the exam are appreciated....got the books and video.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:23 am

The written test is 10 questions all common sense. Pick the safest answer. The practical test is also very simple pick up then he indicates pickout the ammo by looking at the stamp don't point it at him show how to handle it properly and you're done

Slats · Post by **Slats** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:27 am

On closer inspection it seems I got caught up searching for minutia and missed the obvious: pump vs. semi-auto.

brokenwing · Post by **brokenwing** » Fri May 01, 2009 5:09 pm

chu me wrote:Well, here goes.....
I have spent 3 yrs working in the bush ( between '89 and '93 ). I was employed as a "dirt bagger" , line cutter , pad builder , prospector. I worked in B.C. , Alaska , N.W.T ,and the Yukon. In that time I saw bears almost every day, sometimes more than once a day. The bears I saw were both Grizzlies and Black bears. Over the course of these encounters I was charged 7 times ( 5 by Grizzlies, including once being treed for 5 1/2 hours while said Grizzly ate everything I owned, and twice by Black bears ), so I have some experience in this matter.
In all those charges, when I wasn't shitting my pants, only once did I have time to react fast enough to get the drop on the bear. I can tell you that if I had been trying to use a gun I would probably not be alive to write this post. I was shaking so bad that I doubt I could have hit the broadside of a barn let alone a fast moving bear in dense bush. However, what I did use that time was the good old reliable bear mace! I didn't have to aim well, just point and shoot.... dropped that grizzly like a ton of bricks! After I got the @#$! outta there ( and cleaned my underwear!!!! ) the Grizzly recovered and a magnificent creature ( although probably a very pissed off one ) went about it's business none the worse for wear ,and maybe just a little less likely to come around humans again for a long time.

So in the light of Doc's original post some 10 pages ago I would have to vote that the best bear gun to use in an emergency, is not a gun at all, but IMHO it's bear mace ( be careful when you use it though, because that shit stings when you get even a minute amount of it in your eyes!!). If your intention is to hunt bears than I wouldn't have a clue what gun to use!!

There I'm done boys ...........have at'er

I call total bullshit. sorry. but I worked at transfer stations for 3 years and used "bear spray" on bears twice but had close encounters with black bears on a daily basis and even had to let them out of our state of the art "bear proof" garbage bins within arms reach most mornings. Once because a small cub got too close for comfort and once because a smallish bear took my lunch from underneath me, ( they really are stealthy ). anyway.. the bear spray made the cub kind of just take off like he got bored and with the second bear... it did sweet @#$! all.... it just kind of stood there wondering what the @#$! was going on. I only know black bears... but the best thing i found was to just make a lot of noise and run towards them and throw rocks. I didnt have a gun as an option btw, but likely wouldnt have had to resort to killing the animal in each instance.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri May 01, 2009 5:26 pm

Bear mace is the politically correct anti bear measure. Lets just hope it works for you. I carry a short barrel 12 gauge pump action with eight rounds in the mag. Never needed it. Most likely, never will. But, I rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6.......or eaten by 1.

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:27 am

Brokenwing;

You may call bullshit all you want. While I am not going to get in a pissing match with you about experiences, I will point out that yours are different than mine. In your case it was two small ( dump ) bears moving fairly slowly, so I would suggest that they are used to chemical smells and tastes, so the mace did not frighten them. I would also suggest that the bears were not at a full run and did not suck in a deep lung full of this stuff. The one and only bear that I maced was a 900 pd grizzly ( large even for a griz ) coming at a full charge ( therefore breathing very deeply ). When the bear ran into the spray ,it took it very deeply into the lungs and cut off alot of the oxygen supply. As the bear continued its run toward me its muscle ran out of O2 and it collapsed (rather suddenly, much to my surprise ). Now, as the taste and sting of this stuff was foreign to a wild bear it naturally took off when it recovered.
One year previous to this incident a friend of mine maced a grizzly and while it worked on the grizzly it also worked on him ( he was downwind of the bear and the spray blew back on him ). We had to medevac him to a hospital where it took three days to recover ( he said he could hardly breath all that time and he actually passed out several times! ).
I never said that it would work in all cases I just said that it would be my choice as it worked for me and I didn't have to aim well to accomplish my goal ( because I was scared and my goal was not to get eaten, I didn't give shit whether the bear survived or not!! ). While I have heard of mace working( and experienced it working first hand ). I have not heard of anyone shooting a bear while it was charging in the dense bush ( and by dense bush, I mean that you cannot see people standing 10 ft away from you ) and doing anything more than wounding it and really pissing off the bear. So, as I said, call bullshit all you want I'm just relaying my experiences.

Sincerely

Chu me

P.S. I also said that if your aim was to hunt bears ( which I have no problem with ) then I have no idea what would be the best gun ( but I am pretty sure that bear mace would be a poor choice ). Please do not mistake my advice for political correctness!!

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:48 am

Doc;
I am curious how much time you spent on the ground tramping through the bush while you were working ( I ask this just out of curiosity ). While you feel that my answer is just a politically correct one, I believe that I can back it up with real experience. I can tell you that in my time in the bush ( mineral exploration ) I worked with hundreds of other people( some with alot more experience than you and I ) and I only came across two people who carried guns for protection from bears in the bush and quite frankly we used to laugh at them. Now working in mining and mineral exploration is hardly a politically correct occupation, nor do you find many politically correct people in it. So,I suggest that my opinions are based on real world experiences and not on political correctness. What are yours based on?

Sincerely

Chu me

joez · Post by **joez** » Thu May 20, 2010 6:45 am

The best hand gun for me was a stun gun, really nice..

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