New TA reached!

[flightster]

ACPA membership = 3000

Air Canada chief executive Calin Rovinescu’s total compensation 2010 = $4.6 million

New Tentative Agreement = Priceless (NOT)

STAY strong and UNITED, maybe it's time for a repeat of 1998!!!!

[duranium]

This scenario, powder keg wise would be oh so very complete if the Thwaites decision was released by the CHRT, just about now. The fireworks would overshadow, up to now, anything ever seen by those heavy metal drivers. Mr Sinclair, if you can read this, please do us an immesurable favour,, would you please ? Us bleachers dwellers need some new entertainment.

[rudder]

Here is a comment re: the LCC plan referenced in the article above - every market is cost sensitive! This nebulous definition that exists in the LCC LOU will eventually apply to almost every route that AC flies as a result of competition from the likes of Transat, WJ, Thomas Cook, Sunwing/TUI, and any other new entrant that hangs a shingle in Canada.

Take a good look at the pay at Transat because that will be eventually used to reset the A330 rate. And what will be the impact if 767's are ever added to the Cook/Jazz portfolio. As a result of the LCC LOU, eventually the AC product (and pilot job) will be so diluted that there will be no collective bargaining at AC - the work rules be written in YOW by Transport and the pay rates will be set by other pilot groups that do not have the leverage that the AC pilots do.

This is a slippery slope and the company is being much more agressive in their demands with the pilot group than they were with ZIP. The suggestion that this segmentation of the AC pilot work force will not have negative implications is naiive and irresponsible. The AC pilots are being used as a 'workaround' so that AC can marginalize the other unions in an attempt to start a new airline with a day 1 non-union cost structure.

Better to create a market solution that affects all constituents on equal terms than to foster a system of 'haves' and 'have nots'. One strategy will embrace the concept of 'team' and the other is a cancer that will eat away at the pilot group and will eventually kill whatever professional dignity is left.

ACPA has not proven strong enough to resist the assault. Will the pilots be the last line of defense? Just remember that you are not dealing with an airline CEO but rather an M&A lawyer. Words are his craft and favourable interpretations of legally binding agreements or verbal undertakings are his forte. These as yet to be drafted LOU's will become his tools to manage the pilot group for years to come.

Here are some relevant questions:

- what is the rush?
- who has the leverage?
- who has the most to gain?
- who has the most to lose?
- who has the greatest vested interest in the future?

[turbo-beaver]

I can't wait to see how many officers of the MEC that brought us this TA which was developed " outside of the normal bargaining process" will be offered jobs in management as the ink dries on this agreement

One very eloquent spokesperson yesterday stated that the new hires, after spending thousands of dollars obtaining their ratings and licences, and flying for companies that pay shit for several years, come to Air Canada and get paid shit, are still going to be paid shit under this new TA and get a second class pension to boot.

The MEC and negots committee finally came out and stated that they support this TA .... and left over 300 folks wondering who they are actually working for.

[rudder]

Close to 530 signatures as of this morning on ''the petition''.Keep it up guys the message will be very loud and clear.

Similar problems?

United pilots clash over chief
Union boss faces recall vote; her ouster could upset contract talks

By Julie Johnsson TRIBUNE REPORTER

The chairwoman of United Airlines’ pilots union could be ousted Monday in a dispute over the pace and tone of contract negotiations with the carrier’s management, sources told the Tribune.

Capt. Wendy Morse, the first woman to head a major U.S. pilots union, faces a recall vote as United’s Air Line Pilots Association leaders gather for a quarterly meeting in Chicago on Monday. Morse, through a spokesman, declined to comment.

A defeat of Morse could signal the start of labor strife that new United CEO Jeff Smisek has sought to avoid as he melds recently merged Continental Airlines and United into the world’s largest carrier and negotiates contracts with every employee group, analysts said. “I don’t see anything good coming out of this, if the idea is to get a joint collective bargaining agreement out in as short a period as possible,” said William Swelbar, labor expert with the MIT International Center for Air Transportation. “Recalling your master chairperson in the middle of negotiations is never good for continuity.”

The mayhem is unusual even for the cutthroat world of airline pilot politics, sources said. Morse survived a recall vote before she took office at the start of 2010. And the leaders of the union’s Washington, D.C., pilots’ council also face a recall vote on April 22 for aiding the effort to dump Morse. The turmoil is the result of a longstanding philosophical divide among United pilots over how best to deal with management and threatens to inflame divisions among Continental’s pilots, sources said.

The master executive council, whose members set policy and elect the union chairman and other officers, is almost evenly split between those who favor a get-tough approach to management and moderates who favor keeping channels of communication open and hammering out differences in private. The soft-spoken Morse, who is viewed as a moderate, is known as a master tactician with deep negotiating experience. She was elected over incumbent Steve Wallach by a single vote in 2009, sources said. She also faces re-election this October, which makes the timing of the recall vote puzzling to observers like Swelbar.

Wallach won a reputation as a firebrand in an unsuccessful campaign to oust then-CEO Glenn Tilton, and his sympathizers continue to hold powerful posts on the union’s executive and negotiating committees. The union lost much of its clout on Wallach’s watch, however, when United won a temporary restraining order against it for allegedly encouraging a “sick-out” by junior pilots.

Since United merged with Continental last year, frustration has grown among pilots over the deliberate pace of talks for a joint contract with management of United Continental Holdings Inc., the carriers’ Chicago-based parent company. United pilots are eager to get out of a bankruptcy-era contract that slashed average pay by about 40 percent.

The resolution to oust Morse came out of a no-confidence vote approved by the Washington council March 25, according to documents obtained by the Tribune. The measure claimed Morse was an ineffective leader who wasn’t using the union’s leverage to speed talks. Council chairman Steve Brashear didn’t return phone calls. “Whereas we continue to be saddled with the ‘wait and see’ responses from her with respect to our contract,” the resolution stated. “While we ‘wait and see,’ United management is saving millions of dollars on the backs of this labor group once again.”

Morse’s supporters claim she is being used as a scapegoat and that contract talks, while cumbersome, are moving forward. They raise the specter of US Airways, whose deeply divided pilots are stuck with a bankruptcy-era contract six years after merging with America West Airlines.

If the recall occurs, “what follows in terms of the culture between the pilots and United Airlines is going to make what is going on at US Airways look like a day at Disney World,” predicted a United pilot who asked not to be identified because he wasn’t authorized to speak publicly. “And anybody who thinks that a contract would result from the mayhem created by that culture is living in a fantasy land.”

United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy declined to comment on the imbroglio but said negotiations with pilots continue. Added David Kelly, an ALPA spokesman: “Our policy is not to discuss internal ALPA politics.”

[yycflyguy]

The MEC and negots committee finally came out and stated that they support this TA .... and left over 300 folks wondering who they are actually working for.

The MEC does not support it. There was a 6-6 split and those 6 "No's" are passionate "No's". It was unanimously put out to the membership with a "neutral" recommendation. Call your representatives if you want further clarification.

[Rockie]

The report from the YVR meeting suggests they very much do support it without actually saying so, and the moratorium on comment seems more targeted to muzzling dissent than anything.

I think our elected representatives and committee chairs need to remind themselves who they actually work for. As members we have a right to hear what they think about this TA and they have an obligation to tell us. It's time for them to tell the MEC to pound sand and speak up.

The changes this TA brings forward are radical. Anything less than full disclosure is not acceptable.

Elected reps and committee chairs.......SPEAK UP.

[bearinmind]

If we vote for this, everyone over at T3 are going to be laughing at us. There might be a few at T1 too.

20% more hours for 2% more pay
Give up our pension for a DC
LCC pay structure that will become the regular pay structure
No language on retirement age which effictevely (sp) gives back the millions that the company took in pension holiday.

This is not who we are, it not who we have ever been. We need to stop the infighting, get some leadership and toe the line.

We also need to remember that the final signed contract and what you are voting for will be different. There is always some loss in the language from the voted contract and the final contract so if you are sitting on the fence, you will be disipointed with the final outcome, be sure to be happy with this before you vote yes.

Some comments on the road shows and promotion of this contract:

If and when we vote to strike, remember that it dosent mean that we will strike, it just gives the NC some extra power.

The NC is going to argue that a stike is pointless becasue we will just get legislated back to work. The people (politicians) that threaten to do this dont understand what we are capable of as Pilot in Command, the company however does. Work legislation is an empty threat.

Ask if you would be happy if this was your legacy and your children would be happy working for Air Canada?

We might just need some stronger leadership.

[rudder]

The MEC does not support it. There was a 6-6 split and those 6 "No's" are passionate "No's". It was unanimously put out to the membership with a "neutral" recommendation. Call your representatives if you want further clarification.

Just curious - if there was an MEC motion to accept the TA and the result of the vote was 6-6, then the motion would have failed. Or did the MEC Chair cast the deciding vote? Or did the original motion fail (tie) and then there was a substitute motion that made TA acceptance conditional on the MEC taking 'no position' on the agreement (unanimous)?

What was the duress? Why the hell bring a TA to the membership that was reached "outside of the normal bargaining process" that was not a slam dunk at the MEC level? Unbelievable.

[yycflyguy]

The MEC does not support it. There was a 6-6 split and those 6 "No's" are passionate "No's". It was unanimously put out to the membership with a "neutral" recommendation. Call your representatives if you want further clarification.

Just curious - if there was an MEC motion to accept the TA and the result of the vote was 6-6, then the motion would have failed. Or did the MEC Chair cast the deciding vote? Or did the original motion fail (tie) and then there was a substitute motion that made TA acceptance conditional on the MEC taking 'no position' on the agreement (unanimous)?

What was the duress? Why the hell bring a TA to the membership that was reached "outside of the normal bargaining process" that was not a slam dunk at the MEC level? Unbelievable.

All good questions that I can't answer because I wasn't there.

Vote No, remove the NC (perhaps those on the MEC that supported it), file notice to bargain with CIRB and get someone in there that is in touch with the membership. Present the 2000 contract tell 'em that plus COL for the past 10 years otherwise, pound sand.

The company needs this more than the pilots do. Skyregional start is May 1st and requires ratification language that allows the scope violation on the existing CBA.

This is a concessionary contract offer that lowers the bar for EVERYONE in the industry. They took the crap parts of WJ contract for the LCC without the pay and employee profit share plan. Competing against LCC is not the pilots problem. Same planes? Same routes? Same pay and conditions. Congratulations to CR and his lucrative bonus to remain as CEO... oh, you mean compensation and bonuses don't affect a LCC model? Same for us.

Just say "no".

[Rockie]

By agreeing to this regressive and punishing piece of garbage ACPA has:

forfeited any right to claim a leadership role for pilots in Canada.
forfeited any right to promote improved F&DT regulations in Canada.
forfeited any right to mentor any up and coming pilot in Canada.
forfeited any right to call themselves a trade union.

[rudder]

The NC is going to argue that a stike is pointless becasue we will just get legislated back to work. The people (politicians) that threaten to do this dont understand what we are capable of as Pilot in Command, the company however does. Work legislation is an empty threat.

The Jazz pilots did not strike, but they did conduct a strike vote that was effectively a referendum on the company view of the pilots future (99% NO). The government threatened to legislate them back to work if they struck, but even Jazz management realised that they would suffer 5 years of acrimony and incivility as a result. Therefore, the parties arrived at the deal that made the most sense for both, notwithstanding the external interference of the (hopefully soon to be ex) Minister of Labour. Passed at 85%.

There is a process. Respect the process, assess leverage (or lack thereof), have situational awareness, and the result will be one that makes sense to 85% (or more) of the pilots.

p.s. if 99% vote 'NO' to the ACPA TA there will be no need to conduct a strike vote. The message will be loud and clear.

[Fanblade]

Just curious - if there was an MEC motion to accept the TA and the result of the vote was 6-6, then the motion would have failed.

Vote not actually taken but clear that was what was about to happen.

Or did the MEC Chair cast the deciding vote?

Didn't actually happen but clear that was what was going to happen next.

Or did the original motion fail (tie) and then there was a substitute motion that made TA acceptance conditional on the MEC taking 'no position' on the agreement (unanimous)?

Exactly

6 MEC members plus the MEC chair think this is a good contract, and it was clear they were going to push it through hell or high water.

Listening to the road show all I heard is fear.

-Fear of the gov't stepping in and dictating pension changes
-Fear Calin would just start up a LCC if we didn't capitulate.
-Fear that if we don't give 100's of million in productivity concessions AC will fail.

Yes they admitted the contract is concessionary. They say we have to, or there will be no future.

Most depressing aviation experience of my life.

[the original tony]

All this and fly till you die.
Sounds like to advance your career is to quit and pick a new
profession.
I think I'll throw up a little now.

[babybus]

All this and fly till you die.
Sounds like to advance your career is to quit and pick a new
profession.
I think I'll throw up a little now.

Before we go out and change careers how about we stand up together for what we believe?
Let's not have a defeatist attitude, just get mad, get together and be proud to win something together for once.
Might as well at this stage...

[rudder]

Listening to the road show all I heard is fear.

-Fear of the gov't stepping in and dictating pension changes
-Fear Calin would just start up a LCC if we didn't capitulate.
-Fear that if we don't give 100's of million in productivity concessions AC will fail.

Yes they admitted the contract is concessionary. They say we have to, or there will be no future.

Most depressing aviation experience of my life.

Oldest trick in the book - fear. What is Calin's favourite line? "Nothing focuses a man's mind more than showing him his own coffin." Calin has proven to be a very adept coffin maker. And does this deal come with iron clad guarantees? No. The pension may fail, and so might the company someday, but not today.

There is no doubt that there is a need for some degree of change at AC, but is this really the only answer? The corporation will live on, and the pilots will live in infamy (and some in agony). There is nothing even remotely close to this result being demonstrated at the legacy carriers in the US. Why is it that AC must embark on this path?

AC is not in imminent danger of another CCAA filing. Nor is AC sailing in smooth waters. The solution seems excessive to the perceived (manufactured?) crisis, and the punishment certainly does not appear to fit the crime. And the MEC/NC appear resigned to this fate.

Start from the beginning, start with a clean slate, and start with clear direction from the membership about where they are willing to go. Some of the proposed changes may survive, but at least when you vote yes you will be voting in a plan that you had a hand in drafting and that you believe in. Do you believe in this plan?

Many pilots have worked for years trying to transform their 'jobs' into 'careers' yet now it seems like the AC pilots are turning a career into just another job. Sad.

[rudder]

duplicate post

[the original tony]

My apologies bus, you're right.
Jumping a little too quickly. Now…
How do we start to get together to fix this??
That's going to be the hard part.

[Fanblade]

My apologies bus, you're right.
Jumping a little too quickly. Now…
How do we start to get together to fix this??
That's going to be the hard part.

Sorry for depressing you. But I am serious. That is what you will here. AC needs us to do this. The slide show presentation about the industry is apparently the one from Calin's Road show even. I mean what? I didn't know that when I watched it.

Babybus and Rudder are right.

Although my vision is a little more colorful.

Vote this down......then we find a rope and a tall sturdy tree.

[c170b53]

LCC's, like fruit stands, flourish in the summer months, are they now asking you to man them all year long, at the usual student rates? And much like the stands, their infrastructure makes LCC's successful in combating short term market conditions (on the corner weekends, gone weekdays) but if that's the only future, will everyone be giving up on supermarket roasts for 7-11 tube steaks? I apologize for being a bit silly in this situation but after the last 10 years you'd think that some 5 Mil man would get serious.

[joebloggs]

Also, the date stated in this LOU is disturbing...30 319, 20 of which may be transferred from Mainline without being replaced as at November 2010. Same with the `67s(coming from existing fleet), but they have to be replaced(coincides with arrival of `87s??). Sounds like this whole deal was cooked up the same time as Sky Regional. Why is it that we are only hearing of this now...?Can`t wait for the road show in TO

[CanadianEh]

Air Canada to launch cut-rate carrier

Brent Jang, Globe and Mail, April 12, 2011

Air Canada plans to create a discount leisure airline to compete on routes to Europe, Mexico, the Caribbean and other popular vacation spots, a move that will ratchet up the competitive pressure on tour operators such as Transat A.T. Inc.

The country's largest airline is actively drawing up a business plan to launch a low-cost carrier (LCC) with four Boeing 767s and six Airbus A319s, with the potential to increase that fleet to 50 planes, according to a letter of understanding attached to the tentative labour pact between the company and the Air Canada Pilots Association.

"The mandate of the LCC will be limited to the market segment seeking low-cost air travel," according to the letter. "The LCC is not intended to replace mainline routes the company considers financially viable. The LCC's success and viability depends on the parties' ability to fulfill this mandate on a competitive basis."

The project is the latest sign of the airline's aggressiveness as it claws its way back from the financial difficulty it got into during the recession. In addition to the new discount carrier, Air Canada recently said it would return to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport, a decision aimed at recapturing market share among business travellers that it has lost to upstart Porter Airlines Inc.

Air Canada envisages having 30 Airbus planes and 20 Boeings in the new division. Those planes can carry between 120 and 213 passengers in their current configurations, but business class would be removed for the discount airline and replaced with "premium economy" seating.

The airline and the pilots' union have agreed to negotiate a pay structure for the discount unit.

"Air Canada and ACPA wish to establish a labour relations structure covering the pilot-employees of the low-cost carrier," said the letter. A new lower-wage classification of pilots would be started, though the letter cautions that "the full scope and details of the terms and conditions governing the LCC cannot be realistically contained in this LOU [letter of understanding]."

Transat is the country's largest tour operator, followed by fast-growing Sunwing Travel Group, which merged in 2009 with Signature Vacations.

Other tour operators vying for Canadian leisure travellers include WestJet Vacations and Thomas Cook Canada Ltd.'s Sunquest Vacations. Air Canada competes in the charter market through its wholly-owned division, Air Canada Vacations.

Air Canada Vacations already operates in markets such as Mexico, the Caribbean, U.S. sun destinations, Europe, Central and South America and Asia, but its tour packages generally target mid- to higher-end travellers in the charter sector.

ACPA spokesman Paul Howard declined to comment on the letter of understanding, which is dated March 17, noting that union negotiators only began to publicly unveil the tentative agreement Monday in Vancouver, the first stop in a cross-country tour this week to provide details to more than 3,000 Air Canada pilots. ACPA's master executive council has authorized an April 15-27 ratification vote for the tentative labour pact reached last month.

"We wouldn't comment on the substance of a collective agreement before we've even briefed our own members on it," Mr. Howard said, noting that additional meetings with pilots will be held this week in Winnipeg, Montreal and Toronto. "We're in the process of explaining what's in the agreement."

Air Canada declined comment.

ACPA is the first of the airline's unions to agree to tentative contract terms.

The Canadian Auto Workers union, which represents customer service agents and call centre staff, resumed bargaining last week aided by a federal conciliator. Management proposals on table include the creation of new classifications in call centres, says the CAW, whose collective agreement expired Feb. 28.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees began labour talks last week on behalf of flight attendants, while the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers has scheduled introductory bargaining meetings this month with Air Canada.

Labour pacts at ACPA, CUPE and IAMAW expired March 31.

The money Air Canada will lose on this STUPID idea (if it reaches fruition) would be more than the pilots would need for a fair contract plus another bunch of millions.

[c170b53]

By the way, where are they going to get these "new machines"? There were rumblings of 3 possibly 4, 767's all PMC's (what da ....) being added. Then one, from a Polish airline was dropped because the entire interior (was taped together) needed to be replaced. Don't know where these machines have gone through their check, but no doubt they'll provide plenty of entertainment. Like a red flag to a bull, it sure looks like the company's LCC's proposals are intended to rile everyone up and distract attention from the main event....Pensions.

[picwally]

For the purpose of the entire Canadian aviation industry, please vote NO!
This will all affect us in the long run!
UNBELIEVABLE!

[rudder]

When you can get almost 900 pilots to sign a recall petition even before the YYZ road show, the fate of the TA is not looking good.

http://www.pprune.org/canada/448546-air ... rrier.html