ACPA Implodes !

[Rockie]

To a man every person running for office at ACPA still believes that in Canada pilots are special and we alone can negotiate away individual human rights.

Sooner or later one of them is going to recognize reality and have the balls to tell the truth to the pilots. But not today.

[LeadingEdge]

How arrogant all you over 60 crowd are. Do you ever stop to read your posts, they are pathetic.

All Tony wants is the career and pay progression that he signed on for, and you have the nerve to call him greedy? He is not trying to re-write the rules to his own advantage...

BCflyer, who like some of us on this board has run his life properly and PLANNED for retirement, and you poo poo his chance at success, again how pathetic.

Maybe if most of you took charge of your retirement, and went out and got a life, you might see the incredible good fortune that you have in being able to retire at 60 - an enviously early, healthy age. A benefit that almost every other person in society would love to have. But no, you F'd it up and now you want to drag down the rest of the profession under the guise of human rights.

I want to congratulate you and your generation, is there anything that you haven't screwed up???

[Rockie]

All Tony wants is the career and pay progression that he signed on for,

Don't we all. But personally I've never had expectations, only aspirations. And they have gone up and down depending on the circumstances of the day. If anybody thinks their plan will survive an entire career I submit they aren't being very realistic. This issue is simply one more in a long list of things that will inevitably change.

BCflyer, who like some of us on this board has run his life properly and PLANNED for retirement,

Most people run their life properly and plan for retirement. Life however usually throws a curve ball or two, or your planning simply wasn't good enough, or fell victim to circumstances beyond your control. Or maybe you just change your mind and decide you want to work longer. Whatever. If BCflyer ends up having exactly the life he planned for and does as he says and retires happily at 60 then good for him. That doesn't mean everybody else will, or could, or should.

Your claim that people who want to work past 60 are dragging down the profession is absurdly dramatic. When it happens you will see it's no big deal, and you might even decide to take advantage of it yourself once you reach that age.

[turbo-beaver]

How arrogant all you over 60 crowd are

Hey LeadingEdge....

Where is the tolerance? What gives you the right to decide what is right, or wrong for anyone else but yourself?
FYI, my grandfather worked into his late 70s because he wanted to.....
My Father worked into his late 70s for the same reason.
I will work, and fly as long as I want to and the fact that ACPA has screwed up every contract they ever negotiated and allowed the management of the airline to rape and pillage every asset they had along with the pension fiasco, may just be one of the reasons some guys do not trust what retirement on an Air Canada pension may have in store for them down the road.
Get off your ass and get indexing back into the contract, and protect the pension benefits and top hat, and maybe, just maybe, some of us would not be interested in coming back

Talk about a pathetic, whining post.....

[bcflyer]

Good lord I can't stand this crap about all us pilots that won't make their max years and therefore should embrace the fly till you die theory. I'm one who won't make my max years. I knew that when I came here, I planned for it and I'll be quite happy to retire on my 65-70 thousand a year. (which is more than most of my friend make working full time by the way.) You want to fight to fly till you fall out of the seat? Fine, but don't hide behind the premise that you're doing it to help me out!!!

Thats fantastic news for YOU BCFlyer. Glad you got it all figured out. Congratulations !

In the interim though, I sure hope LIFE doesn't get in the way before you actually retire. Oh wait, you won't have to worry because all the ground work will have been done for you by then and YOU will have a CHOICE to put your perfect plan into action.

What I can't quite grasp is how exactly does that give YOU the right to tell ME what do do with MY life?

Hmm where exactly did I tell YOU what to do with YOUR life? (I've added my post to this one so you can show us exactly..)

As far as life getting in the way our plans, you can say that about anything. I planned to go to Europe when I was younger, my work got in the way. I planned to go to Tibet several years ago, family illness got in the way. Thats called LIFE. Get used to it. Things happen every day that can effect our lives. I don't change the way I live "just in case" something happens 20 yrs from now. It would be a very long and depressing life if I lived like that.

The fact that I planned for my future before I came to AC seems to have some of you very pissed off. Did you not have the foresight to see that you wouldn't be able to get a full pension at AC when you joined?

[MackTheKnife]

Get off your ass and get indexing back into the contract, and protect the pension benefits and top hat, and maybe, just maybe, some of us would not be interested in coming back

What most of the working crowd seem to miss is that they will spend almost as long retired as they did working. While their income and earning power increases, or at least has the potential to, a retiree witnesses their purchasing power dwindling on a daily basis. Lets take a person who retired 20 years ago on a pension of $80,000 which would have been on the high side in 1991. To have the same buying power they now require an income of $116,452.00. A full 45.57 % increase in cost of living or looking at it another way, a 45.57 % decrease in their standard of living.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/relate ... ge_moved=1

If Turbo Beavers suggestions above happened, I would withdraw from the coalition immediately as I'm sure many others would,

BUT -To do so would require a modicum of intelligence and foresight which is totally absent in the ACPA head shed. The security of one's retirement should be sacrosanct. Instead it has been pissed away by consecutive MEC's so there's not a lot of options left open except the legal avenues.

[LeadingEdge]

How arrogant all you over 60 crowd are

Hey LeadingEdge....

Where is the tolerance? What gives you the right to decide what is right, or wrong for anyone else but yourself?
FYI, my grandfather worked into his late 70s because he wanted to.....
My Father worked into his late 70s for the same reason.
I will work, and fly as long as I want to and the fact that ACPA has screwed up every contract they ever negotiated and allowed the management of the airline to rape and pillage every asset they had along with the pension fiasco, may just be one of the reasons some guys do not trust what retirement on an Air Canada pension may have in store for them down the road.
Get off your ass and get indexing back into the contract, and protect the pension benefits and top hat, and maybe, just maybe, some of us would not be interested in coming back

Talk about a pathetic, whining post.....

True to form, where were you for the last 30 years??? Why didn't you and your over 60 crowd fix the pension BEFORE you retired? Too busy chasing ex-wives, I'll bet. Don't ask my generation to fix it for you, you should have done that for yourself. Instead, upon retirement your pulled your head out of your ass and realized how bad you have let things become, ergo panic mode. Now, you need money, so you look around and guess what, "lets see if we can screw the junior guy one more time"...

I don't give a $hit about your father, or were he worked. I care about you trying to steal my career, and that is what it is.

If ACPA screwed it up so badly, why do you want to come back?? I mean lets at least be honest for once.

Don't worry, we are changing things and its not going to help you.

LE

[Mechanic787]

Gentlemen (and Ladies?):

I have been sitting on sidelines here for the past couple of months or so, keeping myself informed about the ongoing developments. It's been really quite pleasant without the personal attacks. But now they are recurring. That is a road to wiping this thread off the Forum. It has all be said before. Please, let's keep the discussion to the issues, and hold back on the temptation to engage in discussions that focus on personalities and emotion.

[DrBoeing]

How arrogant all you over 60 crowd are

Hey LeadingEdge....

Where is the tolerance? What gives you the right to decide what is right, or wrong for anyone else but yourself?
FYI, my grandfather worked into his late 70s because he wanted to.....
My Father worked into his late 70s for the same reason.
I will work, and fly as long as I want to and the fact that ACPA has screwed up every contract they ever negotiated and allowed the management of the airline to rape and pillage every asset they had along with the pension fiasco, may just be one of the reasons some guys do not trust what retirement on an Air Canada pension may have in store for them down the road.
Get off your ass and get indexing back into the contract, and protect the pension benefits and top hat, and maybe, just maybe, some of us would not be interested in coming back

Talk about a pathetic, whining post.....

True to form, where were you for the last 30 years??? Why didn't you and your over 60 crowd fix the pension BEFORE you retired? Too busy chasing ex-wives, I'll bet. Don't ask my generation to fix it for you, you should have done that for yourself. Instead, upon retirement your pulled your head out of your ass and realized how bad you have let things become, ergo panic mode. Now, you need money, so you look around and guess what, "lets see if we can screw the junior guy one more time"...

I don't give a $hit about your father, or were he worked. I care about you trying to steal my career, and that is what it is.

If ACPA screwed it up so badly, why do you want to come back?? I mean lets at least be honest for once.

Don't worry, we are changing things and its not going to help you.

LE

LE,

I am not a pilot nor am I retired, but I truly do not understand the vitriol towards those who want to continue to work. We have a few AME's that have just returned from mandatory retirement and we do not have an issue with it.
For what ever reason some one chooses to continue to work, that is their choice. Life changes, crap happens and changes the course of some ones life. Be it medical issues with a family member, a divorce, financial issues etc etc or even just greed, it is their choice to work. Let me tell you, divorce is not always the husbands fault, mine sure as hell wasn't!!!!
The major argument I have heard is that older guys are impeding the younger guys ascent to the top. Sounds to me that maybe a newer more modern wage scale needs to be developed as opposed to the archaic system that tin in place now. Correct me if I am wrong, but are ACPA wages still based on aircraft size? If so, maybe it is time to change it to a time progression system.
The present government is going to wipe out mandatory retirement for any federally regulated industry as of June 06 2011 so everyone best be prepared to accept the new reality

[turbo-beaver]

If ACPA screwed it up so badly, why do you want to come back?? I mean lets at least be honest for once.


Simple.....

to get pension indexing back and get the pension fully funded and the top hat protected.

Then I will retire.

[DrBoeing]

If ACPA screwed it up so badly, why do you want to come back?? I mean lets at least be honest for once.


Simple.....

to get pension indexing back and get the pension fully funded and the top hat protected.

Then I will retire.

I would love to see indexing back but OSFI will never allow it as long as the fund in under funded.

[duranium]

How arrogant all you over 60 crowd are. Do you ever stop to read your posts, they are pathetic.

All Tony wants is the career and pay progression that he signed on for, and you have the nerve to call him greedy? He is not trying to re-write the rules to his own advantage...

BCflyer, who like some of us on this board has run his life properly and PLANNED for retirement, and you poo poo his chance at success, again how pathetic.

Maybe if most of you took charge of your retirement, and went out and got a life, you might see the incredible good fortune that you have in being able to retire at 60 - an enviously early, healthy age. A benefit that almost every other person in society would love to have. But no, you F'd it up and now you want to drag down the rest of the profession under the guise of human rights.

I want to congratulate you and your generation, is there anything that you haven't screwed up???

One thing you should understand LeadingEdge. When you, he or anybody for that matter signed on with a company, be it AC, PWA, CP, WJ or whatever, you and all the others signed on to fly airplaines, PERIOD. There was no promise of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. This is a evolving industry and as such, the proverbial goalposts move over the course of one's career. Understand that and you will be on your way to understanding the whole picture, not your own little corner of the universe.