JcPd_flyer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:36 pm
I hate saying this but I have a feeling that if this industry is going to change in this country, it's going to take either a strike or a terrible terrible accident blaming pilot fatigue and/or inexperience, backed up by the public fear. And I'd rather it to be a strike. Again, hate to bring it up but I thought SFO "incident" was going to change something but here we still are, getting a call at 9am for a red eye from a base that we can't even afford to live in with the flat pay, while pilots in the US get paid 30% more crossing the Atlantic with 3 crew. Something gotta change
Yes...a union that doesn't collude with Management to push expectations and WACON into the crapper.
It's been happening for far too long. Why a "yes recommend" comes from our union leadership with zero snap-backs for something like the Cargo 10% --give-- is completely beyond me. Perhaps they can follow the Constitution and stop recommending garbage deals the should NEVER have made it to a Membership vote.
They have been completely derelict in preserving the most basic and important aspects of our previous contracts. Unity is at an all time low.
The majority of the blame lies with the union. When you have a union making recommendations on how to vote without providing some of the most crucial details of said vote you have a massive disconnect. ie. Cargo LOU
Did the union know about Air Canada's plans to start a door to door delivery service called RIVO when they were telling the membership to keep expectations low and that we couldn't compare ourselves to UPS/Fedex because we are not a door to door delivery service. If the union was not privy to such information during negotiations I would argue that is considered negotiating in bad faith on the companies end. And if this is the case what has our union done to hold the company accountable for negotiating in bad faith?
This is just one example
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Last edited by RightPlaceWrongTime on Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:27 pm
The majority of the blame lies with the union. When you have a union making recommendations on how to vote without providing some of the most crucial details of said vote you have a massive disconnect. ie. Cargo LOU
Did the union know about Air Canada's plans to start a door to door delivery service called REVO when they were telling the membership to keep expectations low and that we couldn't compare ourselves to UPS/Fedex because we are not a door to door delivery service. If the union was not privy to such information during negotiations I would argue that is considered negotiating in bad faith on the companies end. And if this is the case what has our union done to hold the company accountable for negotiating in bad faith?
This is just one example.
Since you made it difficult to find "REVO", I figured I would share the link to RIVO to save others the trouble. Bottom right of the website:
RightPlaceWrongTime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:27 pm
The majority of the blame lies with the union. When you have a union making recommendations on how to vote without providing some of the most crucial details of said vote you have a massive disconnect. ie. Cargo LOU
Did the union know about Air Canada's plans to start a door to door delivery service called REVO when they were telling the membership to keep expectations low and that we couldn't compare ourselves to UPS/Fedex because we are not a door to door delivery service. If the union was not privy to such information during negotiations I would argue that is considered negotiating in bad faith on the companies end. And if this is the case what has our union done to hold the company accountable for negotiating in bad faith?
This is just one example.
Since you made it difficult to find "REVO", I figured I would share the link to RIVO to save others the trouble. Bottom right of the website:
And to think the whole cargo operation supposedly hinged on whether or not the pilots took a 10% pay cut. It was going to happen regardless. There is no way they would cancel such a large business venture purely on a 10% pilot concession. We got played so so so bad and our union isn't willing to admit it. It's time for change. P4C perhaps.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:31 pm
Yes...a union that doesn't collude with Management to push expectations and WACON into the crapper.
It's been happening for far too long. Why a "yes recommend" comes from our union leadership with zero snap-backs for something like the Cargo 10% --give-- is completely beyond me. Perhaps they can follow the Constitution and stop recommending garbage deals the should NEVER have made it to a Membership vote.
They have been completely derelict in preserving the most basic and important aspects of our previous contracts. Unity is at an all time low.
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
If this is true that's really unfortunate. This form for the most part is completely trash information and the minority complaining about stupid stuff. If I was you reach out to friends and family in the Aviation industry and they will provide some much needed incentive. Forget about AvCanada. It really is a good career where you get lots of time off. Fantastic pay and you get overlooked benefits like visiting all different parts of the world. Just my 2 cents
Don’t confuse complaining about contracts and politics with complaining about the job! Most of us love what we do, and are proud of our company. We would all like improvements in our contract, and every job, regardless of which industry it’s in, has components that some people don’t like. Don’t be turned off of aviation because some anonymous pilots vent on an online forum!
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Mrbobmarly111 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:53 am
If this is true that's really unfortunate. This form for the most part is completely trash information and the minority complaining about stupid stuff. If I was you reach out to friends and family in the Aviation industry and they will provide some much needed incentive. Forget about AvCanada. It really is a good career where you get lots of time off. Fantastic pay and you get overlooked benefits like visiting all different parts of the world. Just my 2 cents
The pay is complete shit for anyone starting out. Pilots today are on a 30 year net income comparison with teachers and nurses. Just because you can gross $200k a year as an AC narrow body captain doesn’t mean you make double what a $100k a year teacher makes. You’ll actually only net an extra $50k a year and how long does it take to get to that narrowbody captain position? Until you’re off of flat pay you’re making less than a teacher, which is around 15 years into a career.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Lol if this person has "given up" on his/her career because of a random union that they're not even a member of... then they aren't cut out to ever work in the industry anyways.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Ahahah this is gold
I don't see what's funny? A career is a 20/30 year bet that you make. I see wages and working conditions are in decline. Why dive into that head first?
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm
Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Lol if this person has "given up" on his/her career because of a random union that they're not even a member of... then they aren't cut out to ever work in the industry anyways.
Why put words in my mouth? There are tons of factors but ACPA/AC (effectively) dictate the future of the industry in Canada, there are a lot of things that have slowly turned me off the career, if I see the future is lower pay and longer hours, that's the last straw
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Ahahah this is gold
I don't see what's funny? A career is a 20/30 year bet that you make. I see wages and working conditions are in decline. Why dive into that head first?
It's fun when the industry is stable for "every-10 years" world event.
RRJetPilot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:41 pm
Now add cost of housing or CPI/Basket of goods and overlay it on that chart.
I made a new chart, with the pay in 2021 dollars. I plugged each value into the Bank of Canada inflation calculator, based on the year that pay became effective. It is not a perfect measure of COLA, but a good ballpark figure.
A6BCED72-6BA3-4641-8839-1094DAA87B9B.jpeg (263.04 KiB) Viewed 2523 times
I don't see what's funny? A career is a 20/30 year bet that you make. I see wages and working conditions are in decline. Why dive into that head first?
It's fun when the industry is stable for "every-10 years" world event.
Yeah the big fear for me is once you get past the hill of ratings/ instructing, to shitty 703 job, you'd probably be fairly junior at AC or Westjet and immediately fired when the economy starts to go down.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:00 am
I don't see what's funny? A career is a 20/30 year bet that you make. I see wages and working conditions are in decline. Why dive into that head first?
It's fun when the industry is stable for "every-10 years" world event.
Yeah the big fear for me is once you get past the hill of ratings/ instructing, to shitty 703 job, you'd probably be fairly junior at AC or Westjet and immediately fired when the economy starts to go down.
Use those 10 years to have a solid non-aviation fall back. That's the smartest thing you can do. Take from me and the others that didn't when the layoff happened.
I don't see what's funny? A career is a 20/30 year bet that you make. I see wages and working conditions are in decline. Why dive into that head first?
It's fun when the industry is stable for "every-10 years" world event.
Yeah the big fear for me is once you get past the hill of ratings/ instructing, to shitty 703 job, you'd probably be fairly junior at AC or Westjet and immediately fired when the economy starts to go down.
This industry is volatile. No doubt about it.
This is my third go around with a down turn.
The industry gets whacked first and recovers last.
There are certainly less volatile things to do. I do it out of passion.
Hold on, have you even finished your PPL? In your first post you talked about politics at your flight school taking the wind out of your sails now you're blaming ACPA for quitting aviation?
Lol if this person has "given up" on his/her career because of a random union that they're not even a member of... then they aren't cut out to ever work in the industry anyways.
Why put words in my mouth?
"Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?"
Words out of your mouth...
All I'm saying is the industry isn't for you. This is to be expected... I was comfortably in my first aviation job (at a 705 no less) and then got laid off. Sucks but I knew it would happen at one point in my career.
