Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[altiplano]

However far on we are and somehow.- it must be a fricking miracle - living in the most densely populated place in the country, working, flying, travelling, eating out, laying over in places across the continent - so called covid hot beds - Alberta, New York, Florida, California, Mexico, Kelowna - doing what I need to do, day in, day out, I've operated I don't know how many "covid flights" now that I've been notified, I've been notified of covid in my row on personal and deadhead flights... somehow, hallelujah, I'm still going strong without covid.

I take responsibility for myself.

altiplano, you're taking care of yourself, while the rest of us take care of each other. The ICU beds in Alberta are almost full, and it's mostly the unvaccinated. But as long as the rest of us chumps get vaccinated, there should be an ICU bed for you if you get a severe case of COVID. And if you think you're not at risk because you're young and healthy, ask Fred VanVleet, or Jason Tatum. Two NBA stars who both got COVID. Supreme athletes, yet they got knocked on their ass. Jason Tatum said his breathing was affected for months.

As for having to navigate all those hot spots with work. You won't have to worry about that after next month.

I'm not worried this month or last month or last year... Somehow I manage... I know, it's a miracle.

I am taking care of myself and others with my behaviours. If I protect myself, I protect those around me. I'm responsible.

ICU beds are always full... this country's health care system is constantly at peak overload covid or no covid... it would be flu or something else if not this.

Your satisfaction that your employer and association have sewered the freedoms and/or careers of hundreds of your colleagues is typical of you.

Meanwhile we see real associations and unions stand up for their members and negotiate alternatives.

You're just as likely to bring covid to work as anyone else vaccinated or not - just ask our colleague in 21 day involuntary detention in Hong Kong. So go on with you fairy tales and better than attitude...

[Mrbobmarly111]

Youre a broken record... no one is saying that a vaccinated person cant spread or get infected with covid (although their chances are lower than an unvaccinated person). We are saying if you get vaccinated you are extremely unlikely to become a burden on the healthcare system. Yesterday 188 ppl in the ICU 178 were un vaccinated. Regardless if that is "normal" for the ICU to be that full it's naive and stupid to not protect yourself. Thats like me throwing all my garbage out my window as I drive and saying to myself. Who cares itll end up there eventually anyways..... get vaccinated or go get a different job.

[TheStig]

You're just as likely to bring covid to work as anyone else vaccinated or not - just ask our colleague in 21 day involuntary detention in Hong Kong. So go on with you fairy tales and better than attitude...

You'd be correct if the entire premise of your argument wasn't wrong. Vaccination makes you less likely to catch and less likely to spread COVID by magnitudes in the order of 10. Different studies have various results, but they overwhelmingly say the same thing, you're wrong.

[Counterpoint]

ICU capacity is always generally high for patients that require ICU recovery from surgeries or acute care requirements.

But this COVID 19 ICU surge is bad because not only was it preventable (wave of the unvaxed) but delays surgeries for those that require an ICU follow-up.

The time for accommodation is over, the virus doesn’t understand your rights or freedoms, it’s an illiterate infection and it’s straining our health care system. The near term solution to this moving target is obvious; get vaxed and be the airline pilot or don’t get vaxed and watch from the sidelines.

[altiplano]

You guys are looking at a narrow set of data. I won't hold it against you, the propaganda here is immense, the bombarding of the narrative, and the risks of going against it are unprecedented.

We'll see what happens. I have thought long about it and gathered and come to understand things from a variety of sources, I've worked through my process critically, objectively, and I don't believe I'm wrong in my understanding of what we are facing. When you really get critical about it, look at all of it, it's a pile of shit what's being allowed to happen here.

Covid is a extremely difficult and tragic event, no doubt, but the approved public health narrative is broadly simplistic and demonstrably inept Desperately reactionary. And why, if we're being so altruistic, all doing our part, are we allowing mega pharma to have and own and exclusively benefit from the only approved answer to this? Vaccine development that was largely publicly funded. Isn't the need great enough? Why aren't simple, cheap methods which help, which you can't deny as factual, like vitamin D supplementation being broadcast to the masses?

But if I'm wrong, I'll be wrong, and I can accept that

But you guys won't accept that you might be wrong, that you have bought into the narrative hook, line and sinker, that is built on politics. More shockingly you are happy to marginalize, dehumanize, and subjugate people with a different understanding or belief than you.

That's a really fucking bad path to go down. Judge not...

[altiplano]

You guys are looking at a narrow set of data. I won't hold it against you, the propaganda here is immense, the bombarding of the narrative, and the risks of going against it are unprecedented.

We'll see what happens. I have thought long about it and gathered and come to understand things from a variety of sources, I've worked through my process critically, objectively, and I don't believe I'm wrong in my understanding of what we are facing. When you really get critical about it, look at all of it, it's a pile of shit what's being allowed to happen here.

Covid is a extremely difficult and tragic event, no doubt, but the approved public health narrative is broadly simplistic and demonstrably inept Desperately reactionary. And why, if we're being so altruistic, all doing our part, are we allowing mega pharma to have and own and exclusively benefit from the only approved answer to this? Vaccine development that was largely publicly funded. Isn't the need great enough? Why aren't simple, cheap methods which help, which you can't deny as factual, like vitamin D supplementation being broadcast to the masses?

But if I'm wrong, I'll be wrong, and I can accept that

But you guys won't accept that you might be wrong, that you have bought into the narrative hook, line and sinker, that is built on politics. More shockingly you are happy to marginalize, dehumanize, and subjugate people with a different understanding or belief than you.

That's a really fucking bad path to go down. Judge not...

[Hot Wings]

You guys are looking at a narrow set of data. I won't hold it against you, the propaganda here is immense, the bombarding of the narrative, and the risks of going against it are unprecedented.

We'll see what happens. I have thought long about it and gathered and come to understand things from a variety of sources, I've worked through my process critically, objectively, and I don't believe I'm wrong in my understanding of what we are facing. When you really get critical about it, look at all of it, it's a pile of shit what's being allowed to happen here.

Covid is a extremely difficult and tragic event, no doubt, but the approved public health narrative is broadly simplistic and demonstrably inept Desperately reactionary. And why, if we're being so altruistic, all doing our part, are we allowing mega pharma to have and own and exclusively benefit from the only approved answer to this? Vaccine development that was largely publicly funded. Isn't the need great enough? Why aren't simple, cheap methods which help, which you can't deny as factual, like vitamin D supplementation being broadcast to the masses?

But if I'm wrong, I'll be wrong, and I can accept that

But you guys won't accept that you might be wrong, that you have bought into the narrative hook, line and sinker, that is built on politics. More shockingly you are happy to marginalize, dehumanize, and subjugate people with a different understanding or belief than you.

That's a really fucking bad path to go down. Judge not...

tHe pRoPoGaNdA

[altiplano]

So you have a coherent response?

No...

Just garbage.

[photofly]

Why aren't simple, cheap methods which help, which you can't deny as factual,

Sure we can. Because there's no evidence they help.

And yes, we can be wrong. You don't have the monopoly on being openminded. Except you're not being open minded, are you?

that you have bought into the narrative hook, line and sinker, that is built on politics. More shockingly you are happy to marginalize, dehumanize, and subjugate people with a different understanding or belief than you.

Mmhmm... very open minded.

['97 Tercel]

After you sift through the virtue signaling, all you're left with is the heretics...

I find it amazing how this has divided people. One is either a compliant drone or a conspiracy theorist...there's hardly anything in between anymore.


btw being open-minded is overrated - there's too many dumbasses.

[altiplano]

I'm fine being a disagreeable nonconformist.

In between, divided, whatever... @#$! dumbasses...

[Counterpoint]

I'm fine being a disagreeable nonconformist.

Well this isn’t the time to be that. The unvaxed are running our health professionals ragged, and you’re gumming up the ICUs, a completely avoidable 4th wave condition.

But at the very least you’ve admitted what you consider to be an admirable trait. It explains why you think the current narrative is politically driven (it isn’t, which is why every party leader denounced the hospital protests), that pharma (it’s always “big” or “mega” as if pharma is always a bad thing) is not the solution (pharmaceuticals are there for a reason) and that you support things like vitamin D theories (McGill and the Mayo aren’t so supportive) being a parallel solution.

You aren’t going to like this, but being potentially “wrong” and regretting a personal decision, has consequences for those around you. The time for accommodation is now over, which is why entities are no longer asking politely, but are now giving “disagreeable nonconformist” individuals exactly what they want - an ultimatum. Which is why when faced with a decision between flying for a living or being unvaxed you will eventually get vaxed and all this ragging will come to an end.

I hope the unvaxed really understand that this current wave in Canada was completely avoidable.

[ikarus]

Meanwhile NBA payers union won't budgde on mandating their players to take the jab!

"Its ok when we do it"... They are super humans and rich on top of it, compared to us mortal peasants.

[rudder]

Here is the ‘fact’.

After Oct 31st, no AC or Express Pilot will be sharing a flight deck with a non-vaccinated Pilot. Nor working with non-vaccinated flight attendants. Nor entering any CDN airport premises with non-vaccinated employees. And all air passengers in Canada and entering Canada will have to be vaccinated in order to travel.

What you do away from work is your choice (subject to pending Provincial government restrictions). But any work ‘choice’ is removed.

And for those that believe that litigation will prevail? Bonne chance. At a minimum, it will not be resolved prior to Oct 31st.

[imjustlurking]

Here is the ‘fact’.

After Oct 31st, no AC or Express Pilot will be sharing a flight deck with a non-vaccinated Pilot. Nor working with non-vaccinated flight attendants. Nor entering any CDN airport premises with non-vaccinated employees. And all air passengers in Canada and entering Canada will have to be vaccinated in order to travel.

What you do away from work is your choice (subject to pending Provincial government restrictions). But any work ‘choice’ is removed.

And for those that believe that litigation will prevail? Bonne chance. At a minimum, it will not be resolved prior to Oct 31st.

When did you ever have the choice of whether to risk the lives of others while at work?

You cannot smoke in the cockpit even though you can smoke outside of work.

You cannot drink at work even though you can drink outside of work.

You cannot be unvaccinated at work even though you can be unvaccinated outside of work.

[dialdriver]

I'm fine being a disagreeable nonconformist.

Well this isn’t the time to be that. The unvaxed are running our health professionals ragged, and you’re gumming up the ICUs, a completely avoidable 4th wave condition.

But at the very least you’ve admitted what you consider to be an admirable trait. It explains why you think the current narrative is politically driven (it isn’t, which is why every party leader denounced the hospital protests), that pharma (it’s always “big” or “mega” as if pharma is always a bad thing) is not the solution (pharmaceuticals are there for a reason) and that you support things like vitamin D theories (McGill and the Mayo aren’t so supportive) being a parallel solution.

You aren’t going to like this, but being potentially “wrong” and regretting a personal decision, has consequences for those around you. The time for accommodation is now over, which is why entities are no longer asking politely, but are now giving “disagreeable nonconformist” individuals exactly what they want - an ultimatum. Which is why when faced with a decision between flying for a living or being unvaxed you will eventually get vaxed and all this ragging will come to an end.

I hope the unvaxed really understand that this current wave in Canada was completely avoidable.

Well said!

[dialdriver]

You need to get a clue.

Legalized segregation of society based on individuals private medical status and without clear goals it intends to achieve other than punishing and coercing a minority group is what you are advocating.

The goals are very clear, to everyone else.

Your comparison is ridiculous.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_e ... ranges.%22

Spell them out.

That you don't know the goals thoroughly explains your ignorant posts.

[altiplano]

The goals are very clear, to everyone else.

Your comparison is ridiculous.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_e ... ranges.%22

Spell them out.

That you don't know the goals thoroughly explains your ignorant posts.

Specifically. What are they? Give me real numbers. As it stands they are only broad hopes.

When should we end mandates or restrictions? Again specifically. When should we regain freedoms and an equal society? When should we regain a right to privacy?

They want to enact these things so tell me exactly what they expect to achieve, list a target, list an end point for it.

Why aren't they doing that?

There will be no end. There will be another mandate. And another restriction. On and on...

History is a good teacher. What we are seeing falls into a scary pattern.

[dialdriver]

Spell them out.

That you don't know the goals thoroughly explains your ignorant posts.

Specifically. What are they? Give me real numbers. As it stands they are only broad hopes.

When should we end mandates or restrictions? Again specifically. When should we regain freedoms and an equal society? When should we regain a right to privacy?

They want to enact these things so tell me exactly what they expect to achieve, list a target, list an end point for it.

Why aren't they doing that?

There will be no end. There will be another mandate. And another restriction. On and on...

History is a good teacher. What we are seeing falls into a scary pattern.

Ask your doctor, mine says you're a twit.

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

No, I'm not advocating anything. If you learned to read you would I understand I did not type a single word about any of that bullshit your so fond to confront about.


I wrote:


You are comparing 40+ years of racial segregation. You know, black people being denied rights in South Africa and stuff, wrap your head around this; people, because they were black, being treated like shit for FOURTY YEARS

Your problem is comparable?

This is why I'm never on this forum anymore. Don't bother replying I'm not visiting this website anytime soon again

Apologies if you aren't pro societal segregation.

Seriously though, you come in all offended and triggered and can't handle a retort to you telling me to get a clue? Not you're going to go mope?

It's a parallel, and even if it's only one day or one year or one decade and not FORTY years, it's a start down the wrong path and against the values of a free and open society.

It needs to be called out for what it is on day one, and if that triggers you well you can use a stroller term like "medical segregation" if you prefer.

There's no end game published here. No stated goals to be achieved. No snap back points. Just general restriction with what people guess the target is... We are allowing open infringement and limits on our free society beyond what is reasonable to achieve political points.

I agree with you on many things.

[altiplano]

That you don't know the goals thoroughly explains your ignorant posts.

Specifically. What are they? Give me real numbers. As it stands they are only broad hopes.

When should we end mandates or restrictions? Again specifically. When should we regain freedoms and an equal society? When should we regain a right to privacy?

They want to enact these things so tell me exactly what they expect to achieve, list a target, list an end point for it.

Why aren't they doing that?

There will be no end. There will be another mandate. And another restriction. On and on...

History is a good teacher. What we are seeing falls into a scary pattern.

Ask your doctor, mine says you're a twit.

You are a child.

Can't you have a conversation or support your position without insults?

That's literally all you are capable of doing. I haven't seen one actual thought generated from you in a post.

[ikarus]

Specifically. What are they? Give me real numbers. As it stands they are only broad hopes.

When should we end mandates or restrictions? Again specifically. When should we regain freedoms and an equal society? When should we regain a right to privacy?

They want to enact these things so tell me exactly what they expect to achieve, list a target, list an end point for it.

Why aren't they doing that?

There will be no end. There will be another mandate. And another restriction. On and on...

History is a good teacher. What we are seeing falls into a scary pattern.

Ask your doctor, mine says you're a twit.

You are a child.

Can't you have a conversation or support your position without insults?

That's literally all you are capable of doing. I haven't seen one actual thought generated from you in a post.

I would just ignore him.

[Ratherbe]

Altiplano,
You lost my respect when you endorsed TL. Your position on COVID has confirmed my concerns. Sincerely hope you come around.

[imjustlurking]

Altiplano,
You lost my respect when you endorsed TL. Your position on COVID has confirmed my concerns. Sincerely hope you come around.

Altiplano has a lot of opinions, many of them controversial. Its easy to speak big behind an anonymous computer but I doubt that they have the same courage in the real world.

[altiplano]

Altiplano,
You lost my respect when you endorsed TL. Your position on COVID has confirmed my concerns. Sincerely hope you come around.

I can't believe you bring the tragic situation surrounding TL into this. That man advocated hard and went to the wall for AC pilots, maybe he cracked under the pressure, but it doesn't change the fact that he had integrity and he did it for you and me.

Altiplano has a lot of opinions, many of them controversial. Its easy to speak big behind an anonymous computer but I doubt that they have the same courage in the real world.

LOL... says the guy that signed up this week under his latest anonymous handle to post and insults about one topic... why not use your real name then if you're going to cast aspersions over anonymity? It's called being a hypocrite.

A lot of people know who I am on this site and I say my opinions under my real name on other mediums. I don't push it at work, because it's bullshit and I don't like to hear about bullshit at work, I'd rather talk about the things I enjoy. But if the guy next to me asks, I'll speak honestly about what I believe and why.