CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

[AnonPilot]

Your reference also says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."

If you think an airplane will crash if you don't wear a shirt and tie, you're not worth bothering with.

That was my whole point. It’s stupid to think a plane would crash because a uniform, just like it’s stupid to think a surgeon won’t pass you covid because of a mask.

More than anything, a surgical mask is part of the image of a doctor. That is the primary part of the mask. The actual efficacy of the mask is secondary. You can google many studies on this, it’s not even really up for debate. There are zero conclusive studies that say masks for surgeons are a game changer. All the surgical mask studies find very little difference in outcomes with mask use. Respirator is the way to go. Highly effective when used as directed. Studies also point out removing your respirator and putting it back on can significantly diminish its efficacy. This whole go to the gym and wear your mask between equipment and remove it to use the equipment is a huge joke.

Surgical masks to surgeons is like the tie to a pilot. It’s part of the uniform.

Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.

[montado]

What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science, and then people want to debate me like it’s my research. Why are you arguing with me about surgical masks? You asked me why a surgeon wears one, and I can find you 10 studies on surgical masks that say they aren’t very effective at all. Go take it up with the people who did the studies. Does a mask block your spit… obviously. Does that mean it stops aerosols? No. Does that mean it prevents transmission of disease, no. All these studies on flu like viruses pre covid show masks don’t really do much to prevent virus transmission. The outcomes are statistically insignificant. Debate all you want but I’m just the messenger. I don’t know why people are so heartbroken when a study says 90 percent of aerosols escape cloth masks, or surgical masks statistically don’t make any difference in viral transmission in the hospital setting.

When I say masks don’t work, this doesn’t mean they can’t work, it doesn’t mean we should never wear them.

I’m saying the application is wasteful, not targeted, illogical, against science.

Are there times people should wear a mask? Absolutely… if I was symptomatic and going to a doctors appointment absolutely! Even if it was not mandatory, I would do it! This is common sense no?

But let’s look at mask policy
Does the policy follow science? Well to start, reusing cloth masks is totally against science. Mask policy at a gym is against science, and probably the most idiotic policy of all. Vaccinated people wearing masks is not against science, but the risk is low and for that reason it’s illogical. Wearing masks outdoors, anti science. Does it make sense for kids to wear masks in school all day, maybe to some, I have a problem with it. I think kids need to develop social skills. Kids are very low risk to covid. Parents are vaccinated… so as for schools I’m against it.

You guys read into this to much as if I have some sort of whacky idea. Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?

[photofly]

What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science…

Er, no you don’t. You post a bunch of self-generated opinion and claim it’s fact.

What we don’t understand is why you care so much.

[montado]

Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.

Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?

[montado]

What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science…

Er, no you don’t. You post a bunch of self-generated opinion and claim it’s fact.

What we don’t understand is why you care so much.

Why do you care so much?

[dialdriver]

Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?

If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.

[dialdriver]

Of course a surgeon or dentist wearing a mask makes sense.

[montado]

Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?

If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.

What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas.

[dialdriver]

Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?

If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.

What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas.

It's no surprise you feel critical thinking is a strange idea. Where did I state don't ask questions and accept everything as fact?

[Aviatard]

If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.

What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas.

It's no surprise you feel critical thinking is a strange idea. Where did I state don't ask questions and accept everything as fact?

Montado is king of straw men.

[montado]

Glad to be king of something!

Thanks!

[AnonPilot]

Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.

Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?

Weird response. I wasn’t attacking or teaming up I was genuinely curious about the studies showing that masks provide no benefit for surgeons or their patients.

[dialdriver]

Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.

Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?

My friend, a respirologist with 7+ years medical training and about 40 years experience tells me there is lots of evidence to support masks. I do not need him to prove it with studies, but he could.

When I ask for your evidence, you call my question garbage.

Your personal attacks, emotional reasoning,
straw men, grandstanding and false equivalent arguments aren't evidence. They are argumentative fallacies.

Please do not come near me.

[montado]

Mhmm tell me more! How is it the experts have been wrong about masks until covid hit? Pre 2020, no experts seem to think masks really worked all the great. You have a friend! Great! So now because your friend you think I should throw out decades of mask research? All of a sudden covid hits and the only thing relevant is the “new science”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.3222702

Experts testified that it was illogical to force healthy nurses to wear masks, and Hayes concluded the masks were not protecting patients or nurses from the flu. "The sad part about it is it was giving our patients a false sense of security, and we knew that," said Haslam-Stroud.

All of a sudden the science changed! We went from surgical masks don’t make sense (in a hospital full of sick people), to cloth masks are the answer to end the pandemic (and everyone should wear them while indoors)!

A virus way more contagious than the flu, that spreads by smaller aerosols than the flu, will somehow magically be stopped by cloth masks, when surgical masks were found to be not effective at preventing the spread of the flu pre 2020. Bring your expert friend here so they can explain this science.

[dialdriver]

Mhmm tell me more! How is it the experts have been wrong about masks until covid hit? Pre 2020, no experts seem to think masks really worked all the great. You have a friend! Great! So now because your friend you think I should throw out decades of mask research? All of a sudden covid hits and the only thing relevant is the “new science”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.3222702

Experts testified that it was illogical to force healthy nurses to wear masks, and Hayes concluded the masks were not protecting patients or nurses from the flu. "The sad part about it is it was giving our patients a false sense of security, and we knew that," said Haslam-Stroud.

All of a sudden the science changed! We went from surgical masks don’t make sense (in a hospital full of sick people), to cloth masks are the answer to end the pandemic (and everyone should wear them while indoors)!

A virus way more contagious than the flu, that spreads by smaller aerosols than the flu, will somehow magically be stopped by cloth masks, when surgical masks were found to be not effective at preventing the spread of the flu pre 2020. Bring your expert friend here so they can explain this science.

Of course a surgeon or dentist wearing a mask makes sense.

[montado]

Because I want my dentist to be in uniform, and I don't want spit in my face. Don't confuse mask policy, mask efficacy for the prevention of the spread of disease, and wearing a mask to prevent your spit from going into someones mouth when doing dental work. These are all different discussions.

Here is a question for you. Lets say a seat belt is found to be 75 percent effective at saving lives in accidents at 60 miles an hour.

Does this make the seat belt just as effective at 120 miles an hour?

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

Covid today is 18x more airborne than original variant.

So question. If this data is true, how confident are you that the current mask policy is effective at all?

If you raced cars for a living, would you take the seat belt from you Kia rio and say "this one works at 60 pretty well, so its probably going to work just as well if I crash at 120!"

Would you accept that masks are less effective if covid is more transmissible? 18x more aerosols.

The research found that the viral load in the air from Alpha variant patients was 18x more than could be explained by the increased amounts of virus in nasal swabs and saliva.

Does your science evolve with the data? Or did you just put your mask on for a whole year and never think about why we are doing this? Is "its better than nothing" your philosophy ? "I will wear my 60 rated seat belt and drive 120 because its better than nothing" Seems very unscientific and seems like risk is not understood. Is the better answer not "I just wont drive 120 if I don't have a seat belt rated for 120" or "I just wont go out in public if I feel the risk of covid is to great". Maybe that's the way back to normal. Scared people stay home, because they are delusional with anti science policy that makes very little sense.

[dialdriver]

Because I want my dentist to be in uniform, and I don't want spit in my face. Don't confuse mask policy, mask efficacy for the prevention of the spread of disease, and wearing a mask to prevent your spit from going into someones mouth when doing dental work. These are all different discussions.

Here is a question for you. Lets say a seat belt is found to be 75 percent effective at saving lives in accidents at 60 miles an hour.

Does this make the seat belt just as effective at 120 miles an hour?

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

Covid today is 18x more airborne than original variant.

So question. If this data is true, how confident are you that the current mask policy is effective at all?

If you raced cars for a living, would you take the seat belt from you Kia rio and say "this one works at 60 pretty well, so its probably going to work just as well if I crash at 120!"

Would you accept that masks are less effective if covid is more transmissible? 18x more aerosols.

The research found that the viral load in the air from Alpha variant patients was 18x more than could be explained by the increased amounts of virus in nasal swabs and saliva.

Does your science evolve with the data? Or did you just put your mask on for a whole year and never think about why we are doing this? Is "its better than nothing" your philosophy ? "I will wear my 60 rated seat belt and drive 120 because its better than nothing" Seems very unscientific and seems like risk is not understood. Is the better answer not "I just wont drive 120 if I don't have a seat belt rated for 120" or "I just wont go out in public if I feel the risk of covid is to great". Maybe that's the way back to normal. Scared people stay home, because they are delusional with anti science policy that makes very little sense.

More false equivalent arguments.

Were you the only guy I saw in Home Depot yesterday without a mask, in violation of the law and medical policy?

I'm going to stick with competent medical advice.

[montado]

Because I want my dentist to be in uniform, and I don't want spit in my face. Don't confuse mask policy, mask efficacy for the prevention of the spread of disease, and wearing a mask to prevent your spit from going into someones mouth when doing dental work. These are all different discussions.

Here is a question for you. Lets say a seat belt is found to be 75 percent effective at saving lives in accidents at 60 miles an hour.

Does this make the seat belt just as effective at 120 miles an hour?

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

Covid today is 18x more airborne than original variant.

So question. If this data is true, how confident are you that the current mask policy is effective at all?

If you raced cars for a living, would you take the seat belt from you Kia rio and say "this one works at 60 pretty well, so its probably going to work just as well if I crash at 120!"

Would you accept that masks are less effective if covid is more transmissible? 18x more aerosols.

The research found that the viral load in the air from Alpha variant patients was 18x more than could be explained by the increased amounts of virus in nasal swabs and saliva.

Does your science evolve with the data? Or did you just put your mask on for a whole year and never think about why we are doing this? Is "its better than nothing" your philosophy ? "I will wear my 60 rated seat belt and drive 120 because its better than nothing" Seems very unscientific and seems like risk is not understood. Is the better answer not "I just wont drive 120 if I don't have a seat belt rated for 120" or "I just wont go out in public if I feel the risk of covid is to great". Maybe that's the way back to normal. Scared people stay home, because they are delusional with anti science policy that makes very little sense.

More false equivalent arguments.

Were you the only guy I saw in Home Depot yesterday without a mask, in violation of the law and medical policy?

I'm going to stick with competent medical advice.

Is it hard for you to have a discussion or what? When you don't like to answer tough questions you defer. Maybe send this question to your expert friend.

[photofly]

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

You might want to consider quoting this bit of the same article:

Researchers also found that face-coverings, such as surgical masks and cloths, reduce the amount of the virus breathed out into the air by about 50%.

[montado]

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

You might want to consider quoting this bit of the same article:

Researchers also found that face-coverings, such as surgical masks and cloths, reduce the amount of the virus breathed out into the air by about 50%.

Great point... 50% of 18x the amount of aerosols... even with the original variant the mask work probably filter 50% correct? The mask is not more effective with the new variant. Its clearly more transmissible and this may make the mask pretty much useless. Lets not pretend its effective when the science changes.

At what point does the viral load render masks ineffective? If the load keeps increasing the efficacy must be dropping and eventually you his a point where the masks aren’t really doing much… just like as speed increases eventually the seat belt becomes useless and not a difference maker in outcomes. The end result we should wear masks to stop covid spread and deaths, if the masks don’t really do that anymore then what’s the point of wearing one?

[cdnavater]

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

You might want to consider quoting this bit of the same article:

Researchers also found that face-coverings, such as surgical masks and cloths, reduce the amount of the virus breathed out into the air by about 50%.

Great point... 50% of 18x the amount of aerosols... even with the original variant the mask work probably filter 50% correct? The mask is not more effective with the new variant. Its clearly more transmissible and this may make the mask pretty much useless. Lets not pretend its effective when the science changes.

Holy f@*k,
No matter how you spin it, it’s still better than no mask.
If I’m going commando and I shart, my pants will be covered in shit but if I’m wearing underwear most of the shit will get filtered and maybe increase the odds nobody even knows I shit myself.

[cdnavater]

Also, for someone who claims the topic of masking is not important, your posts seem to indicate the opposite.
You have posted the word mask 232 times!
Dialdriver 9, Photofly 35, mostly quoting you!

[dialdriver]

Because I want my dentist to be in uniform, and I don't want spit in my face. Don't confuse mask policy, mask efficacy for the prevention of the spread of disease, and wearing a mask to prevent your spit from going into someones mouth when doing dental work. These are all different discussions.

Here is a question for you. Lets say a seat belt is found to be 75 percent effective at saving lives in accidents at 60 miles an hour.

Does this make the seat belt just as effective at 120 miles an hour?

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

Covid today is 18x more airborne than original variant.

So question. If this data is true, how confident are you that the current mask policy is effective at all?

If you raced cars for a living, would you take the seat belt from you Kia rio and say "this one works at 60 pretty well, so its probably going to work just as well if I crash at 120!"

Would you accept that masks are less effective if covid is more transmissible? 18x more aerosols.

The research found that the viral load in the air from Alpha variant patients was 18x more than could be explained by the increased amounts of virus in nasal swabs and saliva.

Does your science evolve with the data? Or did you just put your mask on for a whole year and never think about why we are doing this? Is "its better than nothing" your philosophy ? "I will wear my 60 rated seat belt and drive 120 because its better than nothing" Seems very unscientific and seems like risk is not understood. Is the better answer not "I just wont drive 120 if I don't have a seat belt rated for 120" or "I just wont go out in public if I feel the risk of covid is to great". Maybe that's the way back to normal. Scared people stay home, because they are delusional with anti science policy that makes very little sense.

More false equivalent arguments.

Were you the only guy I saw in Home Depot yesterday without a mask, in violation of the law and medical policy?

I'm going to stick with competent medical advice.

Is it hard for you to have a discussion or what? When you don't like to answer tough questions you defer. Maybe send this question to your expert friend.

Excuse me, what tough question?

I already told you what my medical expert said, but you keep posting articles that confirm wearing masks as evidence against them - who can discuss that intelligently?

[dialdriver]

Because I want my dentist to be in uniform, and I don't want spit in my face. Don't confuse mask policy, mask efficacy for the prevention of the spread of disease, and wearing a mask to prevent your spit from going into someones mouth when doing dental work. These are all different discussions.

Here is a question for you. Lets say a seat belt is found to be 75 percent effective at saving lives in accidents at 60 miles an hour.

Does this make the seat belt just as effective at 120 miles an hour?

Mask policy has been relatively the same, with very little updates or explanations. However covid has gone from 60-120 according to this article:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... udy-680082

Covid today is 18x more airborne than original variant.

So question. If this data is true, how confident are you that the current mask policy is effective at all?

If you raced cars for a living, would you take the seat belt from you Kia rio and say "this one works at 60 pretty well, so its probably going to work just as well if I crash at 120!"

Would you accept that masks are less effective if covid is more transmissible? 18x more aerosols.

The research found that the viral load in the air from Alpha variant patients was 18x more than could be explained by the increased amounts of virus in nasal swabs and saliva.

Does your science evolve with the data? Or did you just put your mask on for a whole year and never think about why we are doing this? Is "its better than nothing" your philosophy ? "I will wear my 60 rated seat belt and drive 120 because its better than nothing" Seems very unscientific and seems like risk is not understood. Is the better answer not "I just wont drive 120 if I don't have a seat belt rated for 120" or "I just wont go out in public if I feel the risk of covid is to great". Maybe that's the way back to normal. Scared people stay home, because they are delusional with anti science policy that makes very little sense.

The article you post as evidence against masks concludes:

"The take-home messages from this paper are that the coronavirus can be in your exhaled breath (and) is getting better at being in your exhaled breath, and using a mask reduces the chance of you breathing it on others," said Assistant Clinical Professor Jennifer German, a co-author of the study".

Did you even read it?

[photofly]

At what point does the viral load render masks ineffective?

Never. There is always someone at the marginal range of infection who would have escaped if the person infecting them had worn a mask.

Wear a mask.