More WJ layoffs

[ALPApolicy]

While I would love for it to come to frui. Aption, part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.

Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.

[YC87DRVR]

While I would love for it to come to frui. Aption, part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.

Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.

Well firstly, many years of experiences has led me to believe they enjoy exercising those clauses, but they do so strategically not to cause “suffering” as you said.
Secondly, you should google the definition of a sociopath and then google another insult to use towards me that actually works in this context.

[ALPApolicy]

While I would love for it to come to fruition, a part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.

Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.

Well firstly, many years of experiences has led me to believe they enjoy exercising those clauses, but they do so strategically not to cause “suffering” as you said.
Secondly, you should google the definition of a Secondly and then google another insult to use towards me that actually works in this context.

so·ci·o·path
/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

My point, and perhaps it was a bit obscure, was that you are accusing some people at WJ, who you group under the all encompassing term of "management" of being sociopathic in their behaviour. It has been my observation that we often see in others what we ourselves experience or exhibit. For a
Qyou to see sociopathic behaviour in a nameless group of people, I wondered if the part of you that views the world through that lens is sociopathic or unable to experience empathy for the suffering of others.

To address your first paragraph 1, what exactly in your many years of experience leads you to believe that this group of people enjoys causing suffering to a group of people? Laying people off inevitability leads to suffering for some.

And I wouldn't call it an insult. My original post asked a question.

[ALPApolicy]

I wonder if the people who choose commerce or a business administration in university or college already enjoy giving things to people and then taking them away or if the learn that as part of their education. Or do people who end up in management learn this stuff (how to enjoy giving things to people and then taking them away) from colleagues over drinks or at management seminars? Or is it just an aviation thing based on your (lived) experiences? Is it a pilot thing? Maybe pilots secretly like giving things to people and then taking those things back.

When people are interviewed for management positions, do they specifically get asked if they like giving things to people and then taking them away?

So many questions I have.

[lostaviator]

As excited as I was to read the May 1 full employment agreement, I don't think it has much value as it carries a very large out. Fifth wave in Alberta? Out of our control.

I don't think the art of giving and then taking is taught in business school, but I do imagine it is something taught in law school and I think a lot of our issues come from a department outside of flight ops management. Think former CP labour and legal team.

I believe our group is always going to struggle with these issues. We are an expensive and well educated (mostly) group who tend to hang around for our entire careers (not jump ship after "free" flights have lost their novelty). A FA group within our "group" recently voted in a contract giving their peers a C scale and taking a smaller chunk of change now vs waiting a year for more. I mean - really???? There's a reason other groups don't have the issues we do.

Side note. Wall Street (1987 - Michael Douglas) is on WJ connect. I haven't been sleeping much since watching it. Large fund buying an airline. stripping it to pieces, then canning all the staff. Ouch. Maybe our contract and LOU problems aren't the biggest threat we'll be dealing with.

[cloak]

No good comes from paranoid speculation. A lot depends on the pandemic and government regulations that directly affect air travel. Naturally that is reflected in the agreement. Hopefully everyone will be back by May, and soon there’ll be a business friendly government with less interference and taxes…

[JoeyBarton]

With the recent news of encore hiring, how many remain on the street at the wj/swoop bargaining unit?

[imjustlurking]

With the recent news of encore hiring, how many remain on the street at the wj/swoop bargaining unit?

There are still Encore pilots not yet recalled.

Encore pilots are anticipated to have all received recall offers by Q1 of 2022 and WJA/WSW are obligated to receive their recall offer date for no later than May 2022 IIRC.

[sstaurus]

Any word around the water cooler that the latest developments may result in a change of plans to current recalls?

[imjustlurking]

Any word around the water cooler that the latest developments may result in a change of plans to current recalls?

The recalls are the result of a grievance award. From what I've heard and experienced, the recalls are going to continue as planned.

With that, and I'm sure that Altiplano and Transition9er2 are going to use this again as "proof" that I'm not a pilot... I am not a WJA pilot, so take my opinion and experience with a grain of salt.

[ALPApolicy]

Ok, I'll post my reply to you here, so you can read it.

You should care if Encore is sold. Or if WJ buys Transat or Sunwing. That PTA agreement might not matter very much once the merger agreement negotiations happen between the pilot groups. Those other pilot groups might care a bit more about adherence to ALPA Policy and the Constitution and Bylaws than did the WJ MEC.

But that's a discussion for another day. Or not.

Take care.

John

That day did come much sooner than I thought. What I didn't know at the time I wrote this was that the PTA, which I hadn't read until a month ago, was a POS document. It is so poorly written.

If only the CC (Clown Committee) that negotiated the PTA had asked one ex-military officer at WJ to proof read this document. Was Czaba busy? Or any of a dozen competent ex-RCAF pilots who were skilled in military writing? It is so poorly written. What exactly is the process that gets an agreement negotiated and agreed to at ALPA? Do they have legal counsel who can vet the agreement?