Sunwing/Westjet

[rudder]

Last year I added 50% to my
pay without feeling overworked,
eventhough I have a low seniority.
So I am not excited about the merger

It looks like WestJet pilots still believe their contract is superior

If both sides are smart—and we know they are—they should objectively look at the best parts of each contract, use this opportunity to make improvements, and come up with something that boosts working conditions and pay for everyone.

Hopefully, it won’t turn into a petty "my gang is better than your gang" battle.

The company would love that, as they’d be the only ones to benefit, leaving Canadian aviation unchanged once again.

That opportunity will only exist if there is a re-opener clause in the WJ CBA in the event of a merger or acquisition. Implementations issues (i.e. merged seniority list and related conditions) are covered.

[rudder]

I don't think the biggest issue is which contract is best.
The main thing is going to be how the integration of both list is going to be.
That's where the bitter fight will happen.

The ‘bitter fight’ will most likely be settled by an arbitration panel. Extreme positions will likely find themselves in the dust bin.

The ultimate result will probably fall in a much narrower band than some believe.

[FurHat]

Last year I added 50% to my
pay without feeling overworked,
eventhough I have a low seniority.
So I am not excited about the merger

It looks like WestJet pilots still believe their contract is superior

If both sides are smart—and we know they are—they should objectively look at the best parts of each contract, use this opportunity to make improvements, and come up with something that boosts working conditions and pay for everyone.

Hopefully, it won’t turn into a petty "my gang is better than your gang" battle.

The company would love that, as they’d be the only ones to benefit, leaving Canadian aviation unchanged once again.

That opportunity will only exist if there is a re-opener clause in the WJ CBA in the event of a merger or acquisition. Implementations issues (i.e. merged seniority list and related conditions) are covered.

This is the Language in the Sunwing Acquisition LOU in the WestJet CA;

6.5 If ALPA is certified as the successor bargaining agent, WestJet and ALPA shall jointly
request that the CIRB direct that the Collective Agreement remain in full force and be
applicable to the merged successor bargaining unit. If the CIRB determines that
changes to the Collective Agreement are necessary, the Parties agree that any
changes to the Collective Agreement shall, to the fullest extent possible, be limited to
only those changes required to integrate the Sunwing’s pilots into WestJet/Swoop
bargaining unit.

[JBI]

Last year I added 50% to my
pay without feeling overworked,
eventhough I have a low seniority.
So I am not excited about the merger

I hear you. For many guys/girls at Sunwing, they had found a sweet spot and now things are going to change. No sarcasm, that sucks.

However, it is important to remember that it's not the WestJet Pilots who are the ones wanting this merger, it's the companies: Onex/WestJet/Sunwing that agreed to the deal. We just get to all try and work out how the groups will be merged. Like all mergers, there will be a few small disputed issues, but I agree with rudder above:

The ‘bitter fight’ will most likely be settled by an arbitration panel. Extreme positions will likely find themselves in the dust bin.

The ultimate result will probably fall in a much narrower band than some believe.

[nohojob]

I am a pessimistic guy but I am worried about the following scenarios:

A senior West Jet FO just about to upgrade could be told :
Sorry, but we don't need you to upgrade, we have enough captains from swg coming in.

Or to a junior swg captain, sorry, but you're being downgraded, and you have to move to another base.
In both cases it would really suck.

I hope I am 100% wrong in my speculations.

[Canadaflyer46]

It will be settled by arbitration. This has been mentioned as recently as yesterday on the WJ MEC podcast.
DOH and full rebid is the likely scenario IMO, as the other two options (Sunwing pilots going BOTL / Sunwing pilots all keeping their position disregarding seniority timelines on the current WJ list) would favour one of the pilot groups. An arbitrator is likely to pick the fairest option to both sides.

[ads-b]

I agree with rudder. Things are going to change but at least we have more pilots under one roof negotiating next time. My signs already made “we’re not Air Canada”

[cdnavater]

I agree with rudder. Things are going to change but at least we have more pilots under one roof negotiating next time. My signs already made “we’re not Air Canada”

Congratulations on being compared to Flair next round, should help your situation.

[pacman007]

How do sunwing and WestJet pilots feel about DOH and full rebid? Seems fair. You only get what your senority holds. Thoughts?

[Canadaflyer46]

How do sunwing and WestJet pilots feel about DOH and full rebid? Seems fair. You only get what your senority holds. Thoughts?

Seems the most likely scenario for the arbitration. Only way to be fair to both sides.

[Handover]

How do sunwing and WestJet pilots feel about DOH and full rebid? Seems fair. You only get what your seniority holds. Thoughts?

Full rebid? for those of us unfamiliar with the merging vernacular - I assume that this means that, say for instance, in YUL, a rebid for this base will happen based on seniority. Therefore, Westjet senior pilots will push out Sunwing less senior pilots, but who have been operating out of YUL for years?

We all know that Westjet has a much higher proportion of senior pilots. If this is the meaning of full rebid, Sounds great to the Westjet pilots, but no, it doesn't sound fair to a sunwing pilot that lives and works in YUL for the past 5-10 years and joined Sunwing, so they don't have to commute...

[nohojob]

Indeed...

[FurHat]

Any merge scenario (arbitrated or not) that results in a large displacement of one group or base is unlikely to pass judicial review. DOH with re-bid falls under this category.

[Canadaflyer46]

How do sunwing and WestJet pilots feel about DOH and full rebid? Seems fair. You only get what your seniority holds. Thoughts?

Full rebid? for those of us unfamiliar with the merging vernacular - I assume that this means that, say for instance, in YUL, a rebid for this base will happen based on seniority. Therefore, Westjet senior pilots will push out Sunwing less senior pilots, but who have been operating out of YUL for years?

We all know that Westjet has a much higher proportion of senior pilots. If this is the meaning of full rebid, Sounds great to the Westjet pilots, but no, it doesn't sound fair to a sunwing pilot that lives and works in YUL for the past 5-10 years and joined Sunwing, so they don't have to commute...

What solution would you suggest? Whichever way the arbitrator rules there will be people on both sides unhappy. Their job will be to make sure one side doesn’t come out of it disproportionately favoured.

[nohojob]

For Montreal, it's a 100% win for westjet pilot in the event of a DOH and bid.
They didn't have a YUL base before.
So worse case scenario they can't have a base they didn't have, best case they remove some swg pilots who were there for years...

[Handover]

What solution would you suggest? Whichever way the arbitrator rules there will be people on both sides unhappy. Their job will be to make sure one side doesn’t come out of it disproportionately favoured.

The questions was, 'How do sunwing and WestJet pilots feel about DOH and full rebid?'

I answered how I felt. Did you want me to say I am thrilled?

[pacman007]

For Montreal, it's a 100% win for westjet pilot in the event of a DOH and bid.
They didn't have a YUL base before.
So worse case scenario they can't have a base they didn't have, best case they remove some swg pilots who were there for years...

The Montreal base might be a loss for some sunwing pilots but having hundreds of pilots out of seniority is definitely a major blow to the many Westjet FOs who have been sitting in the right seat for a decade plus. Sunwing pilots might have to commute, sit on reserve or take an upgrade out of base. But that’s normal for pilots at WestJet. The job has changed ans Sunwing pilots might have to just deal with the new job.

[munzil]

For Montreal, it's a 100% win for westjet pilot in the event of a DOH and bid.
They didn't have a YUL base before.
So worse case scenario they can't have a base they didn't have, best case they remove some swg pilots who were there for years...

The Montreal base might be a loss for some sunwing pilots but having hundreds of pilots out of seniority is definitely a major blow to the many Westjet FOs who have been sitting in the right seat for a decade plus. Sunwing pilots might have to commute, sit on reserve or take an upgrade out of base. But that’s normal for pilots at WestJet. The job has changed ans Sunwing pilots might have to just deal with the new job.

[safetyfirst123]

For Montreal, it's a 100% win for westjet pilot in the event of a DOH and bid.
They didn't have a YUL base before.
So worse case scenario they can't have a base they didn't have, best case they remove some swg pilots who were there for years...

The Montreal base might be a loss for some sunwing pilots but having hundreds of pilots out of seniority is definitely a major blow to the many Westjet FOs who have been sitting in the right seat for a decade plus. Sunwing pilots might have to commute, sit on reserve or take an upgrade out of base. But that’s normal for pilots at WestJet. The job has changed ans Sunwing pilots might have to just deal with the new job.

The upgrade time at Westjet has been approximately one decade for a very long time. At Sunwing, upgrade times vary, but they have been as low as one year or less in some cases. The upgrade time has increased substantially in the last while, so at present time there would be very very few captains with five years or less seniority at Sunwing. If you take away the left seat to a Sunwing pilot and award it to a Westjet pilot based on historically quicker upgrade times at Sunwing, you are favouring the Westjet pilot. It's an interesting dynamic, because the career progression at each company is very different. I could see such a scenario playing out but only with pay protection for any downgraded pilot.

[DutyFree]

For Montreal, it's a 100% win for westjet pilot in the event of a DOH and bid.
They didn't have a YUL base before.
So worse case scenario they can't have a base they didn't have, best case they remove some swg pilots who were there for years...

The Montreal base might be a loss for some sunwing pilots but having hundreds of pilots out of seniority is definitely a major blow to the many Westjet FOs who have been sitting in the right seat for a decade plus. Sunwing pilots might have to commute, sit on reserve or take an upgrade out of base. But that’s normal for pilots at WestJet. The job has changed ans Sunwing pilots might have to just deal with the new job.

“definitely a major blow to the many Westjet FOs who have been sitting in the right seat for a decade plus.”

So, SW pilots should loose out because WJ pilots decided to go to a company that had a 12 year upgrade probability?

[safetyfirst123]

The fairest way, if employee relations were the only factor to consider, would be to run separate OC's, with Westjet mainline and separately a LCC/leisure OC. Free movement between the two with no bumping, but we all know that's not happening

[fish4life]

The fairest way, if employee relations were the only factor to consider, would be to run separate OC's, with Westjet mainline and separately a LCC/leisure OC. Free movement between the two with no bumping, but we all know that's not happening

That only works if it’s the same contract otherwise it’s Swoop 2.0 for the WJ pilots. If it is the same contract then it makes no sense for a company that has to have 2 pilots on reserve out of the same base when they only need 1 etc.

[safetyfirst123]

The fairest way, if employee relations were the only factor to consider, would be to run separate OC's, with Westjet mainline and separately a LCC/leisure OC. Free movement between the two with no bumping, but we all know that's not happening

That only works if it’s the same contract otherwise it’s Swoop 2.0 for the WJ pilots. If it is the same contract then it makes no sense for a company that has to have 2 pilots on reserve out of the same base when they only need 1 etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you from a company standpoint, but it would be the happiest end result for employees

[pacman007]

“ So, SW pilots should loose out because WJ pilots decided to go to a company that had a 12 year upgrade probability?”

Short answer is YES. If you take job security and a new contract you don’t get to hold spots out of seniority.

[DutyFree]

“ So, SW pilots should loose out because WJ pilots decided to go to a company that had a 12 year upgrade probability?”

Short answer is YES. If you take job security and a new contract you don’t get to hold spots out of seniority.

Well it’s a good thing then that the majority of seniority list mergers have set a different precedent.

I also believe they were going to be negotiating a new contract Dec1st.