It is imminent.......be ready.

[Icamefromspace]

“When it is in force, we want our pilots to remain the best-paid commercial pilots in Canada by far,” Air Canada spokesperson Peter Fitzpatrick by email. “We are open to any solution to reach a reasonable settlement, including arbitration.”

https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... e-deadline

A Captain on the Embraer at Porter Airlines makes 39% more hourly than the equivalent at Air Canada. So just overnight, there would need to be an increase of at least that just to match, plus “the by far”.

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

39% uplift from $190/hr is $264/hr. Porter E2 captain tops out at $270/hr at 12 years.

[carnie]

Don't think that's a fair comparison. At POE YOS is not really transferable. From Q to E2. Not entirely sure about E2 FO to CA as that hasn't happened yet.
1-9 yrs as CA= year 1 E2
10-13=year 2 E2
13+=year 3

That's a significant difference

[altiplano]

Join the company upgrade and start marching up the YOS scale.

Seems pretty comparable to me. Except the 87 year Legacy airline compares WORSE.

Plus it looks like Porter is starting experienced guys ahead of Year 1, not an option at AC (see "flat pay"), and paying more throughout their Captain scale than AC NB Captains.

When a comparison of AC pilot pay and Porter pay is even a topic for discussion - something is seriously wrong.

Do you think an AA/UA/DL pilot concern themselves with Breeze pilot pay? I hope not.

Right! Except we need to be concerned because we are lower than it now and the company is pitching in the media that they are making an offer that keeps us lower than it for another 4 years.

Too long the company and ACPa hubris kept AC pilots in the dark about our substandard trajectory in the world. We need to be more than concerned, we need to be downright angry and direct it where it's due.

[newlygrounded]

So 30% is objectively a bad offer but obviously the public will disagree, especially when a "first year captain" making 250k+ who works every holiday nad never sees their family is the example the company is parading around.

What's the chance an arbitrator will agree that it is a bad deal?

[truedude]

So 30% is objectively a bad offer but obviously the public will disagree, especially when a "first year captain" making 250k+ who works every holiday nad never sees their family is the example the company is parading around.

What's the chance an arbitrator will agree that it is a bad deal?

Outside of an act of parliament,this will never see an arbitrator.

[CaptDukeNukem]

“When it is in force, we want our pilots to remain the best-paid commercial pilots in Canada by far,” Air Canada spokesperson Peter Fitzpatrick by email. “We are open to any solution to reach a reasonable settlement, including arbitration.”

https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... e-deadline

A Captain on the Embraer at Porter Airlines makes 39% more hourly than the equivalent at Air Canada. So just overnight, there would need to be an increase of at least that just to match, plus “the by far”.

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

When a comparison of AC pilot pay and Porter pay is even a topic for discussion - something is seriously wrong.

Do you think an AA/UA/DL pilot concern themselves with Breeze pilot pay? I hope not.

Why? WestJet and AC were always compared. You think Porter isn’t in the mix yet? Are you thinking Porter is still a regional?

Watch, Porter will follow suit shortly after.

Bet you jazz does nothing, bet you flair does nothing, bet you WestJet does nothing.

[rudder]

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

When a comparison of AC pilot pay and Porter pay is even a topic for discussion - something is seriously wrong.

Do you think an AA/UA/DL pilot concern themselves with Breeze pilot pay? I hope not.

Why? WestJet and AC were always compared. You think Porter isn’t in the mix yet? Are you thinking Porter is still a regional?

Watch, Porter will follow suit shortly after.

Bet you jazz does nothing, bet you flair does nothing, bet you WestJet does nothing.

Perhaps you should check your ego. Porter is fine. Pay rates are great and likely to increase if the ‘benchmarking’ system continues.

However, you don’t hear AC comparing to TS either. And TS (WB/NB overseas fleet) resembles AC far more than Porter. Porters biggest plane is barely the same seating size as AC’s smallest (and weighs less).

As for the other unionized airlines - you are probably correct. If AC hiring rate winds down then attrition will become less of an issue and pay pressure may wane.

[newlygrounded]

So 30% is objectively a bad offer but obviously the public will disagree, especially when a "first year captain" making 250k+ who works every holiday nad never sees their family is the example the company is parading around.

What's the chance an arbitrator will agree that it is a bad deal?

Outside of an act of parliament,this will never see an arbitrator.

AFAIK parliament is still not sitting but the rail workers were ordered to arbitration.

[TCAS II]

30%… 20% only and then 10% over 3 years.

According to Forbes, AC made 1.6 billion last year and are a top 10 biggest public airline company by revenue.

No reason to offer such low amount. Pay your pilots their worth, they helped make the company profitable.


Air Canada and United Airlines, both one of the five founding airlines of Star Alliance.

“In a statement on the LinkedIn social media site, United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby said, “We promised our world-class pilots the industry-leading contract they deserve, and we’re pleased to have reached an agreement with ALPA on it.””

World Class Airline… World Class Contract.

[truedude]

So 30% is objectively a bad offer but obviously the public will disagree, especially when a "first year captain" making 250k+ who works every holiday nad never sees their family is the example the company is parading around.

What's the chance an arbitrator will agree that it is a bad deal?

Outside of an act of parliament,this will never see an arbitrator.

AFAIK parliament is still not sitting but the rail workers were ordered to arbitration.

It is an unconstitutional order which the courts will likely overturn long before they start arbitration. I belive ALPA might be gearing up to disregard any back to work orders that violates court affirmed constitutional rights.

[khedrei]

“When it is in force, we want our pilots to remain the best-paid commercial pilots in Canada by far,” Air Canada spokesperson Peter Fitzpatrick by email. “We are open to any solution to reach a reasonable settlement, including arbitration.”

https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... e-deadline

A Captain on the Embraer at Porter Airlines makes 39% more hourly than the equivalent at Air Canada. So just overnight, there would need to be an increase of at least that just to match, plus “the by far”.

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

39% uplift from $190/hr is $264/hr. Porter E2 captain tops out at $270/hr at 12 years.

The 39% uplift would be for the AC captain rate of $214

The claim was that porter gets 39% more than AC which would be 214x1.39=293ish. I'm not debating that the pay should be higher than porter. I'm just saying we should be quoting accurate numbers. It's not true that porter captains get paid 39% more. AC captains still make more.

Also, there are no yr 12 porter captains. I don't even think there are 3yr porter captains. Barely that many 2 year

[TCAS II]

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

39% uplift from $190/hr is $264/hr. Porter E2 captain tops out at $270/hr at 12 years.

The 39% uplift would be for the AC captain rate of $214

The claim was that porter gets 39% more than AC which would be 214x1.39=293ish. I'm not debating that the pay should be higher than porter. I'm just saying we should be quoting accurate numbers. It's not true that porter captains get paid 39% more. AC captains still make more.

Also, there are no yr 12 porter captains. I don't even think there are 3yr porter captains. Barely that many 2 year

I thought I saw an Embrarer Captain at AC made closer to 195 (average as mix of day/night) but maybe it’s 214 as you say (then again perhaps it’s for 737s or 321s).
But 270 is what a 12-year Porter Embraer Captain makes. Besides, it’s only an example. Air Canada is not a regional airline.

Maybe I can find what a 12-year Embraer Captain at a legacy carrier like United makes, but I think it’s approximately 270 USD (which is 360 CAD). Thats 85% more!

I could be wrong.

[cjp]

Where are you seeing this 39% figure?

2024 pay scales show AC captain NB at $214 per hour. E2 captain at $190.

Maybe there are newer scales? Even if porter is now higher than $190, I doubt it's $295 which is approx the 39% you claim.

39% uplift from $190/hr is $264/hr. Porter E2 captain tops out at $270/hr at 12 years.

The 39% uplift would be for the AC captain rate of $214

The claim was that porter gets 39% more than AC which would be 214x1.39=293ish. I'm not debating that the pay should be higher than porter. I'm just saying we should be quoting accurate numbers. It's not true that porter captains get paid 39% more. AC captains still make more.

Also, there are no yr 12 porter captains. I don't even think there are 3yr porter captains. Barely that many 2 year

All the direct entries from 2022 are entering their YR 3 pay this fall. Those that came over early with over a decade of experience on the Dash were given YR 2 or YR 3 initially, so they are entering YR 5/6 this fall. The big difference is the aggregate earnings for a Porter E2 pilot is significantly higher than an Air Canada pilot if they remained NB for their first 10 years (3 years of flat pay, followed by formula Captain pay). The fact we are comparing WB pay to a NB economy carrier is impressive - for Porter that is.

Everyone here is working hard, and that is setting the T4 bars high, and yes there are a number of Porter E2 trainers and OT Captains that are making heavy jet money - at least Canadian heavy jet money picking up all the open shifts. FO's are doing well - I think for those that are going into YR 3, its 115 an hour, so comfortable money to say the least. Perhaps not million dollar mortgage money, but comfortable.

AC management's decision to spit on a highly united team with red in their eyes and then float it to the media like their offering was a gift I think is a mistake they aren't going to enjoy - as they eat their humble pie. Definitely a test - glad your union didn't bring it forward and it had to come out of the management side to see the light of day.

Screenshot 2024-09-05 195525.png (34.88 KiB) Viewed 4688 times

[planenuts]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but this is the first offer from the company no?

While 30% is low and would never be agreed to - It's a decent start....it only goes up from there. I mean they could have really tried to insult you like Westjet did to us. Their opening offer was 9% over 5 years. We ended up just short of double that.

I have faith you'll get there.

[TCAS II]

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comment ... /#lightbox

[Texarcana]

.

[cjp]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but this is the first offer from the company no?

While 30% is low and would never be agreed to - It's a decent start....it only goes up from there. I mean they could have really tried to insult you like Westjet did to us. Their opening offer was 9% over 5 years. We ended up just short of double that.

I have faith you'll get there.

The problem is they are trying to garner public sympathy as their goal is to end in arbitration like the last 2 times - they have zero intention of going up. This was their hail mary to float to the public to say without saying 'See it's not our fault, it's our greedy pilots' - leaving out the net zero bargaining for over 2 decades that led to this mexican standoff.

[lownslow]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but this is the first offer from the company no?

From what I’ve heard, negots more or less opened with a trash offer that was tossed almost immediately.

[BE02 Driver]

39% uplift from $190/hr is $264/hr. Porter E2 captain tops out at $270/hr at 12 years.

The 39% uplift would be for the AC captain rate of $214

The claim was that porter gets 39% more than AC which would be 214x1.39=293ish. I'm not debating that the pay should be higher than porter. I'm just saying we should be quoting accurate numbers. It's not true that porter captains get paid 39% more. AC captains still make more.

Also, there are no yr 12 porter captains. I don't even think there are 3yr porter captains. Barely that many 2 year

I thought I saw an Embrarer Captain at AC made closer to 195 (average as mix of day/night) but maybe it’s 214 as you say (then again perhaps it’s for 737s or 321s).
But 270 is what a 12-year Porter Embraer Captain makes. Besides, it’s only an example. Air Canada is not a regional airline.

Maybe I can find what a 12-year Embraer Captain at a legacy carrier like United makes, but I think it’s approximately 270 USD (which is 360 CAD). Thats 85% more!

I could be wrong.

Jet Blue is the Largest E-Jet operator in the US. Here is their new contract (2023). They also operate the A220 and A320. So should be easy to compare. They also pay a heck of a lot less tax, and have 16% direct contribution to their 401k.

[jpilot77]

This offer was rightly rejected by our union in December. The other problem with our pay rates at AC is the difference between day/night. Depending on what fleet you’re on you might not do much night flying. And you don’t benefit from the higher night rate.

[Inverted2]

You get paid more to fly at night at AC?

I just want to get paid more to fly on weekends and holidays.

[flyingcanuck]

You get paid more to fly at night at AC?

I just want to get paid more to fly on weekends and holidays.

lol and nav pay, and overseas pay and random other pay, and this and that. No one has any idea how to calc our real rate lol

[thepoors]

There is a fairly complete list.

I have the one from May 2024.

Is there a more current version — specifically August/September — and if so can someone mail it to me please..

rainman063@gmail.com

The list of those pilots who have done VO this year.

Anyone? Or PM me.

I would also like this.

[Chuck Yagermeister]

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comment ... /#lightbox

I'll one up your link. Someone posted their year 2 T4 on a reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbi ... gets_paid/

[TCAS II]

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comment ... /#lightbox

I'll one up your link. Someone posted their year 2 T4 on a reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbi ... gets_paid/

Shocking. It’s a no-brainer to go work in the US. It’s just a matter of time and the future pilot landscape will change
In Canada. With easy license conversion, the next generation of pilots will seek employment there or elsewhere. It’s a no wonder that AC pilots are seeking a World Class Contract.