Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
True North wrote: Show me a company paying $150,000/yr+ for DH8 captains and I'll show you a company going broke.
I see a pretty picture of an airplane, nothing about wages but I'll take your word for it. But let's talk about real world, not government own/subsidized airlines.Double Wasp wrote:True North wrote: Show me a company paying $150,000/yr+ for DH8 captains and I'll show you a company going broke.
This one seems to be doing okay: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Niug ... 261bebbaa7
There are a few more around as well ... Lets see if someone else can point out another
Sorry mate couldn't resist
Cheers
That's exactly what I'm saying. Missed opportunity imho.True North wrote:Are you suggesting WestJet Encore Q400 pilots should be paid the same as WestJet 737 pilots?Eric Janson wrote:My point is that a single salary scale for both companies would not have as negative an effect as a lot of people seem to think.
Status pay is a great idea, when it's implemented early. Simply put, the additional pay that would go to the wide body drivers in a seniority based system is just put in the pool and everyone shares it. In order for WestJet to adopt status pay for the 737 and Q400, the 737 pilots would have to take a pay cut, what do you suppose the chances of that are? 737 wages for Q400 crews in Canada, in the current environment, is a guaranteed way to lose money. Anyone who can't see that better stick to flying airplanes and leave the business to the businessmen.Eric Janson wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. Missed opportunity imho.True North wrote:Are you suggesting WestJet Encore Q400 pilots should be paid the same as WestJet 737 pilots?Eric Janson wrote:My point is that a single salary scale for both companies would not have as negative an effect as a lot of people seem to think.
Most companies that I've flown for had only 2 salary scales - Captain and First Officer. Everyone could bid on what they wanted to fly with no financial penalties.
At one operator the Junior fleet was the 747 and all the senior Pilots flew the 767. When they got A320 that became the Senior fleet.
At my current Airline we have 2 salary scales plus a Type Allowance which varies between $400 - $1000/mo. The highest figure is for the Pilots flying mixed fleet.
As far as I know, WJ and WJE are two distinct companies (albeit one is wholly owned by the other). As we've recently seen with the Air Ontario lawsuit decision, common employer only goes so far.Green Onions wrote:From what Im hearing the WestJet pilot do not want one list, they want a seperate list for the Encore crews. Seems like this will mean starting at the bottem again for pay and upgrade when Encore crews move to the 737.
Granted this isn't set in stone yet, and I really hope what I'm hearing is wrong. I'm not sure how you continue to promote and protect the current culture well at the same time creating division.
TROLL FAILImpact wrote:As far as I know, WJ and WJE are two distinct companies (albeit one is wholly owned by the other). As we've recently seen with the Air Ontario lawsuit decision, common employer only goes so far.Green Onions wrote:From what Im hearing the WestJet pilot do not want one list, they want a seperate list for the Encore crews. Seems like this will mean starting at the bottem again for pay and upgrade when Encore crews move to the 737.
Granted this isn't set in stone yet, and I really hope what I'm hearing is wrong. I'm not sure how you continue to promote and protect the current culture well at the same time creating division.
And yes, there is no great push for one list. Myself, along with the vast majority of pilots I've spoken with, prefer two lists. It's a no-brainer.
That's interesting. Somebody has a different experience than you, and you tag them a "troll".7thirtyseven wrote:TROLL FAILImpact wrote:As far as I know, WJ and WJE are two distinct companies (albeit one is wholly owned by the other). As we've recently seen with the Air Ontario lawsuit decision, common employer only goes so far.Green Onions wrote:From what Im hearing the WestJet pilot do not want one list, they want a seperate list for the Encore crews. Seems like this will mean starting at the bottem again for pay and upgrade when Encore crews move to the 737.
Granted this isn't set in stone yet, and I really hope what I'm hearing is wrong. I'm not sure how you continue to promote and protect the current culture well at the same time creating division.
And yes, there is no great push for one list. Myself, along with the vast majority of pilots I've spoken with, prefer two lists. It's a no-brainer.
Impact... Since you mentioned internal memos etc or lack therof I must assume you are indeed a WJA pilot and so will spend some time in a little one on one. First ANYONE who can seriously write that two lists is "a no brainer" is either a troll, a half-wit or someone who hasnt spent any brainpower thinkong about the subject, so you see I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
That's interesting. Somebody has a different experience than you, and you tag them a "troll".
I take it that you are in favour of "one list", and are under the assumption that there is a "huge push". I have yet to see any memo, internal communication, or direction regarding the "one list" subject.
Please enlighten us as to not only the benefits of one list, but how it would work within a corporate structure of two different entities.
So what changed from what has already been announced regarding the WAWCON?twinpratts wrote:I heard we're pushing for one list, and 90% of industry median...
Stand by for latest.
Does the "total package" pay the mortgage, put food on the table, and have a little leftover for RRSP's, RESP's, etc?Bede wrote:You guys need to start looking at the total package instead of focusing on the hourly rate.
Not saying that this is the case here, but $2k could equate to an annual car insurance payment, three months of rent, two months worth of mortgage payments, ten months of groceries, or two years worth of clothing (depending on how stylish you are). I'd consider two grande a fairly big difference. Obviously as Bebe pointed out, you'd have to look at the whole package, and not just in the short-term.lol
Why are you basing your numbers off of 82.5 hrs? Can you GUARANTEE 82.5 hrs? The job posting states minimum monthly guarantee of 70 hours. That is the number you are GUARANTEED to receive.Since you don't want to do the math for the FO's here it is based off 82.5 hrs.
I know a number of guys who have an application in and would attend an interview simply to get more information. This is not saying that they would in fact take the job. There is too little information out there to not to go out to YYC and "kick the tires". But just because there are 400 applicants does not mean all of those would accept an offer if the terms are as poor as they appear to be from information on this forum.Just heard they have 400 applicants with enough time for DE captain. You guys need to start looking at the total package instead of focusing on the hourly rate. If you aren't willing to do that, just don't apply.
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