Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[Bil Derberg]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

If unvaccinated, you won’t be at work after Oct 31.

Thankfully, this is non-negotiable.

Incorrect. Got my medical exemption last week.

[loudmouth]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

If unvaccinated, you won’t be at work after Oct 31.

Thankfully, this is non-negotiable.

Incorrect. Got my medical exemption last week.

What company? Cause if you work at AC, a medical exemption won't keep you in the flight deck.

Reasonable accommodation doesn't mean you get to keep flying. It means you won't get fired, but enjoy your new WFH job as a call center employee for $45k a year.

[altiplano]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

[loudmouth]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

Based on the information I've been told, you won't be in a flight deck. China and Australia don't care about your medical exemption. You think the company is going to let you pull a block out of seniority to places that don't require vaccinated pilots? I can't see that happening.

It's coming. AC is just getting ready. Very soon the USA is implementing vaccine requirements to fly into the country. And of you read the language, there's oddly no exemption for flight crews.

You do you, but don't come crying to AvCanada when you get pulled off the line and go on unpaid LOA.

[Bil Derberg]

Not AC, but at the same time none of your beeswax

If unvaccinated, you won’t be at work after Oct 31.

Thankfully, this is non-negotiable.

Incorrect. Got my medical exemption last week.

What company? Cause if you work at AC, a medical exemption won't keep you in the flight deck.

Reasonable accommodation doesn't mean you get to keep flying. It means you won't get fired, but enjoy your new WFH job as a call center employee for $45k a year.

[imjustlurking]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

According to several pilot unions and the legal teams hired to draft a report on the legality of the mandate, reasonable accommodation will not prevent you from getting a pink slip if it causes undue hardship on the employer.

[rudder]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

If unvaccinated, you won’t be at work after Oct 31.

Thankfully, this is non-negotiable.

Just like to point out, you did take a position on this.

I included the qualifier ‘thankfully’ to soften the blow.

I have seen nothing in any employer correspondence that indicates this policy is negotiable. Barring legal intervention, it would appear that the proposed policy will be implemented as written.

This is happening across several workplaces. Aviation does not exist in a vacuum.

[a220hereicome]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

altiplano.

That may be true in some workplaces, within reason. Can’t load bags because of a chronic bad back? You can drive a vehicle on the ramp instead.

This is very different animal, with very high stakes for you as you test your legal expertise. The word from AC management is this: a six month, unpaid administrative leave (no benefits or service accrual whatsoever) to those who are not compliant with the vaccine policy. Starting next month. I’m not a lawyer, but the half-dozen legal opinions I’ve seen all say the same thing, that this policy will stand if challenged in court.

This is the initial step to hopefully allow you the necessary time to take stock, and comply. Six months from now we’ll be spooling up for the summer season, and the Company is putting a strong emphasis on reassuring travellers that when they board a flight, all crew members will be fully vaccinated. We’ll see what the employer does in six months. I don’t expect these leaves to be granted indefinitely.

[dialdriver]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

You can be infected before you have symptoms or remain asymptomatic.

[montado]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

You can be infected before you have symptoms or remain asymptomatic.

This is exactly it. This is why sometimes I call in sick for work. They ask me what are my symptoms and I tell them I think I have covid. They are like “oh what symptoms do you have” and I let them know I’m asymptomatic, one of the most prominent symptoms of covid.

[ikarus]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

You can be infected before you have symptoms or remain asymptomatic.

Straight from the expert...

https://youtu.be/TDFsWybjkmg

Again, for over 18 months you were ok sitting next to me, suddenly you're worried I'm not vaxxed. Meanwhile, vaxxed people can also spread it to others as well. And its all documented and we all know this.

[dialdriver]

What you people don't get is that I really don't care if you are pro vaccine or not, if you use ivermectin or hydroclorcin or herbs or weed or whatever you want... But stop mandating shit that affects my families lives. If I'm healthy and your vaxxed, you have nothing to worry about. If I'm not feeling well, I will book off and you're still safe. It's that simple.

You can be infected before you have symptoms or remain asymptomatic.

Straight from the expert...

https://youtu.be/TDFsWybjkmg

Again, for over 18 months you were ok sitting next to me, suddenly you're worried I'm not vaxxed. Meanwhile, vaxxed people can also spread it to others as well. And its all documented and we all know this.

Dr Fauci does not say you can't transmit the virus if you are asymptomatic.

Also this:

"What Is the Incubation Period for the New Coronavirus?

According to the CDC, the incubation period for COVID-19 is thought to extend to 14 days..On average, symptoms show up in the newly infected person about 5 days after contact. Rarely, symptoms appear as soon as 2 days after exposure. One study reported that 97.5% of people who became infected and have symptoms will do so within 11.5 days of SARS-CoV-2 infection. In rare cases, symptoms can show up after 14 days. Researchers think this happens with about 1 out of every 100 people".

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus- ... ion-period

[ikarus]

This is pointless... I'm done.

Enjoy your freedom like Australians do!

[Aviatard]

This is pointless... I'm done.

Enjoy your freedom like Australians do!

Well that was easy

[dialdriver]

This is pointless... I'm done.

Enjoy your freedom like Australians do!

Well that was easy

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill

[altiplano]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

I’m not a lawyer, but the half-dozen legal opinions I’ve seen all say the same thing, that this policy will stand if challenged in court.

What legal opinions are those? I've only seen the one CUPE published and it was related to a government mandate, not an employer mandate.

ACPA's standing legal opinion seems to always be that we'll lose whatever we do...

Election is done and we haven't heard anything from Trudeau on a federal mandate yet. I guess we'll see if he had the balls to do it.

[imjustlurking]

You don't know that.

Reasonable accommodation does not mean unpaid LOA or constructive dismissal. Particularly for an employee group that has virtually no public contact.

I’m not a lawyer, but the half-dozen legal opinions I’ve seen all say the same thing, that this policy will stand if challenged in court.

What legal opinions are those? I've only seen the one CUPE published and it was related to a government mandate, not an employer mandate.

ACPA's standing legal opinion seems to always be that we'll lose whatever we do...

Election is done and we haven't heard anything from Trudeau on a federal mandate yet. I guess we'll see if he had the balls to do it.

Your outlook on the vaccine, the mandate, and the election are all flawed.

Yes, voting day has come and past, but the election is not over. Votes are still being counted and we still only have a caretaker government that is run by the same people who were in power last week.

Please, take some time away from AvCanada to do some research on the world around you.

[altiplano]

I’m not a lawyer, but the half-dozen legal opinions I’ve seen all say the same thing, that this policy will stand if challenged in court.

What legal opinions are those? I've only seen the one CUPE published and it was related to a government mandate, not an employer mandate.

ACPA's standing legal opinion seems to always be that we'll lose whatever we do...

Election is done and we haven't heard anything from Trudeau on a federal mandate yet. I guess we'll see if he had the balls to do it.

Your outlook on the vaccine, the mandate, and the election are all flawed.

Yes, voting day has come and past, but the election is not over. Votes are still being counted and we still only have a caretaker government that is run by the same people who were in power last week.

Please, take some time away from AvCanada to do some research on the world around you.

What?

The election wasn't on Monday?

The winner isn't already called?

Trudeau didn't propose and campaign on a vaccine mandate for federal employees to be implemented by end of October?

It's not a non-sterilizing MRNA vaccine?

Grow up.

[Tbayer2021]

Arguing with a pilot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you begin to think the pig likes it.

[dialdriver]

Arguing with a pilot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you begin to think the pig likes it.

Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” – Winston Churchill

[imjustlurking]

What legal opinions are those? I've only seen the one CUPE published and it was related to a government mandate, not an employer mandate.

ACPA's standing legal opinion seems to always be that we'll lose whatever we do...

Election is done and we haven't heard anything from Trudeau on a federal mandate yet. I guess we'll see if he had the balls to do it.

Your outlook on the vaccine, the mandate, and the election are all flawed.

Yes, voting day has come and past, but the election is not over. Votes are still being counted and we still only have a caretaker government that is run by the same people who were in power last week.

Please, take some time away from AvCanada to do some research on the world around you.

What? It's okay that you didn't know that the election doesn't end on election night. As of 0041 ET on Friday September 24, 2021, there are still four seats that are not called yet.

The election wasn't on Monday? The election is the entire process between dissolving Parliament up until a new government is formed. Voting day was Monday.

The winner isn't already called? Winner in what respect? PM? No, the incumbent has the first shot at the throne speech... if the elected MPs do not give them a majority vote, the runnner (why does it turn that word into a period if I don't misspell it?) up gets a shot at it. We currently have a caretaker government with limited powers.

Trudeau didn't propose and campaign on a vaccine mandate for federal employees to be implemented by end of October? He did... he also made a lot of other stupid promises that he may or may not follow through on (cough cough electoral reform)

It's not a non-sterilizing MRNA vaccine? What sort of question is that? Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just that dumb?

Grow up. Be an adult. Learn something.

[altiplano]

Your outlook on the vaccine, the mandate, and the election are all flawed.

Yes, voting day has come and past, but the election is not over. Votes are still being counted and we still only have a caretaker government that is run by the same people who were in power last week.

Please, take some time away from AvCanada to do some research on the world around you.

What? It's okay that you didn't know that the election doesn't end on election night. As of 0041 ET on Friday September 24, 2021, there are still four seats that are not called yet.

The election wasn't on Monday? The election is the entire process between dissolving Parliament up until a new government is formed. Voting day was Monday.

The winner isn't already called? Winner in what respect? PM? No, the incumbent has the first shot at the throne speech... if the elected MPs do not give them a majority vote, the runnner (why does it turn that word into a period if I don't misspell it?) up gets a shot at it. We currently have a caretaker government with limited powers.

Trudeau didn't propose and campaign on a vaccine mandate for federal employees to be implemented by end of October? He did... he also made a lot of other stupid promises that he may or may not follow through on (cough cough electoral reform)

It's not a non-sterilizing MRNA vaccine? What sort of question is that? Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just that dumb?

Grow up. Be an adult. Learn something.

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

[dialdriver]

What? It's okay that you didn't know that the election doesn't end on election night. As of 0041 ET on Friday September 24, 2021, there are still four seats that are not called yet.

The election wasn't on Monday? The election is the entire process between dissolving Parliament up until a new government is formed. Voting day was Monday.

The winner isn't already called? Winner in what respect? PM? No, the incumbent has the first shot at the throne speech... if the elected MPs do not give them a majority vote, the runnner (why does it turn that word into a period if I don't misspell it?) up gets a shot at it. We currently have a caretaker government with limited powers.

Trudeau didn't propose and campaign on a vaccine mandate for federal employees to be implemented by end of October? He did... he also made a lot of other stupid promises that he may or may not follow through on (cough cough electoral reform)

It's not a non-sterilizing MRNA vaccine? What sort of question is that? Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just that dumb?

Grow up. Be an adult. Learn something.

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

Insults? You just told him to grow up!

You think the government is going to rush into passing legislation the day after the election?

Do you know what semantics means?

[imjustlurking]

What? It's okay that you didn't know that the election doesn't end on election night. As of 0041 ET on Friday September 24, 2021, there are still four seats that are not called yet.

The election wasn't on Monday? The election is the entire process between dissolving Parliament up until a new government is formed. Voting day was Monday.

The winner isn't already called? Winner in what respect? PM? No, the incumbent has the first shot at the throne speech... if the elected MPs do not give them a majority vote, the runnner (why does it turn that word into a period if I don't misspell it?) up gets a shot at it. We currently have a caretaker government with limited powers.

Trudeau didn't propose and campaign on a vaccine mandate for federal employees to be implemented by end of October? He did... he also made a lot of other stupid promises that he may or may not follow through on (cough cough electoral reform)

It's not a non-sterilizing MRNA vaccine? What sort of question is that? Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just that dumb?

Grow up. Be an adult. Learn something.

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

Semantics are the part of language concerned with meaning. Of course if I am correcting you, I am going to be dealing with semantics.

You do not know what you are talking about and it shows. The same goes with your arguments regarding COVID.

[Mr. North]

Without vaccines, NO ONE WOULD BE FLYING. Without vaccines our healthcare systems would implode much like Alberta is right now. THE ONLY REASON most of us are still employed, and flying more and more each month, is because VACCINES WORK.

If you can't bear to shoulder an ounce of civic responsibility, least of all one that has ensured the survival of our industry and employment, then I very politely suggest you get the @#$! out of the way!