Sunwing/Westjet

[nohojob]

Thanks for the clarification.

[MaxAuto]

With regards to fences for the 787, the WestJet PTM clearly states that 2 years must be spent on WJ 737s before being able to bid for the 787. That clause has prevented several Encore flows from moving onto the 787, despite their seniority allowing it and a pilot junior to them taking their seat (so in other words, it’s enforced). No fences even required really.

Most senior SW guys I'm sure have no desire to be FOs on the 787 or even captains if the can hold it. Most of them have been there done that overseas.

[cdnavater]

With regards to fences for the 787, the WestJet PTM clearly states that 2 years must be spent on WJ 737s before being able to bid for the 787. That clause has prevented several Encore flows from moving onto the 787, despite their seniority allowing it and a pilot junior to them taking their seat (so in other words, it’s enforced). No fences even required really.

Most senior SW guys I'm sure have no desire to be FOs on the 787 or even captains if the can hold it. Most of them have been there done that overseas.

That’s easy to say but the fact is, if they could hold it without fences many would likely prefer the long haul flying versus the pairings that they will be bidding for on the 37.
How many Sunwing pilots have said they will miss the flying Sunwing did because they were working 10 days per month, well been there done that doesn’t prevent them from eyeballing the 787 lifestyle if allowed.

[ads-b]

I’m one of the senior pilots. I have zero desire to commute out west to fly a 787 and I can’t stand flying multiple time zones. I’d rather overnight in Regina than Korea.

But that’s just me.

Can’t wait to join the WJ pilot group.

Hope the ISL is fair for all!

[nohojob]

With the closure of yqb, we might see more people forced to commute
I certainly can wait to join Westjet.

[Zanzibar]

What is the size of the Quebec base? Where were the flights to and year round or just seasonal?

[pacman007]

I'm hearing a lot of rumours.. how much do Sunwing pilots actually fly? I'm hearing only 300 hrs a year vs Westjets 700.

[MaxAuto]

I'm hearing a lot of rumours.. how much do Sunwing pilots actually fly? I'm hearing only 300 hrs a year vs Westjets 700.

If you include deadheading all over the place, yes about 700 hours too. We spent a lot of time DHing on AC, WJ, Porter, and sometimes AT. Lots of ground transports too. Even Via Rail at times. I log all of it has flight time.

[pacman007]

I'm hearing a lot of rumours.. how much do Sunwing pilots actually fly? I'm hearing only 300 hrs a year vs Westjets 700.

If you include deadheading all over the place, yes about 700 hours too. We spent a lot of time DHing on AC, WJ, Porter, and sometimes AT. Lots of ground transports too. Even Via Rail at times. I log all of it has flight time.

So I guess the answer is no we do not fly 700 hrs a year!

[safetyfirst123]

These figures will vary for Westjet and Sunwing pilots. It depends on how they bid, their seniority, if they're left seat, right seat, many other variables. I did just under 400 hours of flying and just over 1,000 hours of duty in the last 365 days. I bid a bit of reserve and do a fair amount of unproductive pairings with deadheads. Some people do a lot of overtime, others don't. It's hard to compare unless we have all pilots combined to get accurate numbers.

[DutyFree]

Sunwing pilots on average work 15% less and make 5% more than WJ pilots.

[canadianfly]

I have heard westjet wants to give multiple years of seniority added on to their pilots that started prior to the merger announcement date. Sounds like a good way to divide a pilot group.

You create an account, and then post something that you think will stir the pot. Get a life. You can whine all you want on a public forum. It's not going to change the outcome. If you want to continue your career being a grump and holding a grudge against the other group, then enjoy your miserable life.

I don't think dansairplane is a bot or a troller, i think he/she had an older account but could've been locked out without the possibility of reseting the password.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'm hearing a lot of rumours.. how much do Sunwing pilots actually fly? I'm hearing only 300 hrs a year vs Westjets 700.

If you include deadheading all over the place, yes about 700 hours too. We spent a lot of time DHing on AC, WJ, Porter, and sometimes AT. Lots of ground transports too. Even Via Rail at times. I log all of it has flight time.

Pax rail time? You consider that flight time? I’m all for rounding up to the nearest decimal, but this is extreme.

[nohojob]

I flew 700 hours last year even though in the last third of the seniority list of my base. 12 to 13 days of work, very little DH.
700 isn't including DH. It depends what you bid and where you are.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'm hearing a lot of rumours.. how much do Sunwing pilots actually fly? I'm hearing only 300 hrs a year vs Westjets 700.

If you include deadheading all over the place, yes about 700 hours too. We spent a lot of time DHing on AC, WJ, Porter, and sometimes AT. Lots of ground transports too. Even Via Rail at times. I log all of it has flight time.

Pax rail time? You consider that flight time? I’m all for rounding up to the nearest decimal, but this is extreme.

The more I re read maxauto’s post about logging DH AND TRAIN TIME in his logbook, the more I start to worry about the industry.

Shame. That’s all it is.

[BigQ]

Heh, I ASK for viarail sometimes. Saved my driver 1h30 of YUL traffic to pick me up. No catsa is a big bonus

[CaptDukeNukem]

Heh, I ASK for viarail sometimes. Saved my driver 1h30 of YUL traffic to pick me up. No catsa is a big bonus

Did you log the flight time from the via rail seat? Cuz max auto supposedly does, and I’m just trying to gather how much fake time is included in log books. Not trying to say that you are doing this yourself

[safetyfirst123]

If you include deadheading all over the place, yes about 700 hours too. We spent a lot of time DHing on AC, WJ, Porter, and sometimes AT. Lots of ground transports too. Even Via Rail at times. I log all of it has flight time.

Pax rail time? You consider that flight time? I’m all for rounding up to the nearest decimal, but this is extreme.

The more I re read maxauto’s post about logging DH AND TRAIN TIME in his logbook, the more I start to worry about the industry.

Shame. That’s all it is.

The more I read your posts the more I worry about you if you can't sense the sarcasm

[Canadaflyer46]

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

(431.46 KiB) Downloaded 225 times

[CaptDukeNukem]

Pax rail time? You consider that flight time? I’m all for rounding up to the nearest decimal, but this is extreme.

The more I re read maxauto’s post about logging DH AND TRAIN TIME in his logbook, the more I start to worry about the industry.

Shame. That’s all it is.

The more I read your posts the more I worry about you if you can't sense the sarcasm

Wow! That’s great. I guess you can’t discern from my sarcasm as well. It’s really a shock that only about 6-10 % of words actually make up such a small percentage of commutation. Things like tone of voice or actual body language read so much into this.

Perfect for an online anonymous aviation forum.

Cheers mate.

[digits_]

It’s really a shock that only about 6-10 % of words actually make up such a small percentage of commutation. Things like tone of voice or actual body language read so much into this.

This is off topic, but such a widespread held belief that it needs to be addressed. This whole '90% of communication is non verbal' that instructors love to bring up in CRM courses is just ridiculously false for that application. All that 'research' stems back to 1 scientific paper, that basically tried to figure out how people perceive emotions based on the subject speaking one word. Subjects were shown the picture of a man/woman and were asked to identify the emotion. Then they were asked to do the same based on audio recordings of the man/woman saying one word. Based on this particular test scenario, the results based on pictures were more accurate, eventually incorrecty or incompletely leading to the conclusion that 90% of communication is non verbal.

More explanation and links to source material: https://blog.donders.ru.nl/?p=12172&lang=en

Carry on though.

[CaptDukeNukem]

It’s really a shock that only about 6-10 % of words actually make up such a small percentage of commutation. Things like tone of voice or actual body language read so much into this.

This is off topic, but such a widespread held belief that it needs to be addressed. This whole '90% of communication is non verbal' that instructors love to bring up in CRM courses is just ridiculously false for that application. All that 'research' stems back to 1 scientific paper, that basically tried to figure out how people perceive emotions based on the subject speaking one word. Subjects were shown the picture of a man/woman and were asked to identify the emotion. Then they were asked to do the same based on audio recordings of the man/woman saying one word. Based on this particular test scenario, the results based on pictures were more accurate, eventually incorrecty or incompletely leading to the conclusion that 90% of communication is non verbal.

More explanation and links to source material: https://blog.donders.ru.nl/?p=12172&lang=en

Carry on though.

Interesting read. I think that might be a little more advanced than avcanada however. Thanks tho

Also cool (sarcastic) that you’re posting Russian links. See what I did there, added extra emotion.

[digits_]

It’s really a shock that only about 6-10 % of words actually make up such a small percentage of commutation. Things like tone of voice or actual body language read so much into this.

This is off topic, but such a widespread held belief that it needs to be addressed. This whole '90% of communication is non verbal' that instructors love to bring up in CRM courses is just ridiculously false for that application. All that 'research' stems back to 1 scientific paper, that basically tried to figure out how people perceive emotions based on the subject speaking one word. Subjects were shown the picture of a man/woman and were asked to identify the emotion. Then they were asked to do the same based on audio recordings of the man/woman saying one word. Based on this particular test scenario, the results based on pictures were more accurate, eventually incorrecty or incompletely leading to the conclusion that 90% of communication is non verbal.

More explanation and links to source material: https://blog.donders.ru.nl/?p=12172&lang=en

Carry on though.

Interesting read. I think that might be a little more advanced than avcanada however. Thanks tho

I'm just hoping it will make your next CRM renewal course so much more interesting when you bring up this tidbit of information

[rudder]

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

I read it top to bottom.

What was the ‘ratio’ used for pilots from #316 to the last pre-merger hire?

*Disregard* - figured it out.

1358/331 = 4.10:1

[onspeed]

so not a swoop 2.0 and another massive alpa over promise, under deliver.