Recall of MEC Chair & Vice Chair

[digits_]

It's been this way for 70 years and I have my doubts it will ever change. Here is why.

The steep scale dramatically ncreases career income and pension AND (this is huge) once 99% of new pilots get past year 4? They no longer care. Their pain is over and the payoff is beginning.

As someone who supports increased new hire pay I can tell you it is exceedingly difficult to get support, except from those in year 1-4. The last contract had by far the largest aamount of pilots in this demographic and it still didn't happen.

Since this is now multi generational I have my doubts it will ever be addressed to the level you want. Even this generation, if they are like the previous, won't care in a few years.

I think you're right.

The cycle of being screwed over and paying it forward shall repeat itself. There will always be more reasons, some new some old, to justify why one is deserving more than others. And under the guise of unity it can not be questioned, especially in those critical times when it actually matters.

[ACPA2.0]

Numbers only…. Even if you ask for delta wages in CAD, year 1 of 125.50 cad = only 90 usd.

Hope you all get some QOL and legacy gains.

Air Canada pilots can't compare to the US.

Unless you're a union rep. Then you compare.

If you still want more, just write a memo for more money or add an allowance to the Policy Manual.

ACPA 2.0

[cdnavater]

why, are you the salary police! You find the arguments wrong. Why, tell me why a pilot with 20 plus years working for a company, who has fallen behind his peers in the US significantly shouldn’t get a big raise over the junior pilot? You haven’t presented a single argument on why they shouldn’t, just that you think it’s wrong!

Well here's the plot twist: the junior pilots are *also* underpaid. But hey, maybe we can get them all on minimum wage and get the top another 2% raise. After all, it will benefit everyone after a 30 year career. Win win win all around.

If you think you're deserving of a raise that exceeds your copilot's total salary, or if you think you truly are worth 5 times more than your colleague to the right, then nothing I say will ever convince you.

I can’t disagree that the juniors are underpaid, I honestly thought the new hire pay would come up to at least 100k in the new contract but it didn’t happen.
It’s not about being worth more, it’s about who has been harmed more by the company and government over the last two decades or so.
There was a line in the sand the company was willing to go to, a pot of money they were willing to concede to, the way it was spread out is no doubt based on the survey and guess what, by who lost more. In math and time 20 is more than 1 or 2 or 3, I’m sure you get the point, the union also said the company dug their heels in on new hire pay, I take their word on that. However, I will concede it may have been they had the top wages sorted and the company was not willing to give more to fix the bottom, in other words, told the union if you want to bring up new hire pay, you take it from the other pilots, who knows.
So, yes, in a nutshell, I believe pilots with longevity were more deserving of the biggest uplift, simply due to the fact they have been held back longer.
It is my understanding that the FO pay was very close to being caught up for inflation with the lift they did get, anyhow, like you say it seems nothing I say will convince you either

[Mr. North]

Correct, nothing will convince these trolls otherwise.

When it comes to contract negotiations "deserve's got nothing to do with it". Previous injustices, real or perceived, have no bearing at the bargaining table. It all comes down to leverage in the moment. We extracted as much as we could and that is that. cdavater is correct, the company did not want to increase junior pay more than they already had. And robbing Peter (sr) to pay Paul (jr), as mentioned above, detracts from overall career earnings. Not my problem if you can't do math. From my discussions with various reps, resolving flat pay was a large issue, but the overall driving objective was to close the gap with our US peers.

In the end, flat pay went from 4yrs to 2, 30% raise, and YOS for the furloughed. I'll say it's certainly not perfect but it's considerably better than what I endured. So I take exception to the notion of eating our young, and I'm not even that senior. I'm sure there are many among us who would have happily accepted you getting less if it got them another 1-2%!!

Looking forward to seeing these complainers in 27-28. Will they be spamming these boards, volunteering a percentage of their raise for those following behind them? We all know the answer.

[altiplano]

Year 1-4 pay as a percentage took the largest pay increases of all in 2024. Entry pay has surpassed the 2003 inflation adjusted rates. Everything else just barely caught up

Absolutely. It's not perfect for anyone in this place, but junior pilots certainly are not being ignored.

[Dias]

Agreed. We just need an even across the board raise now.

[Fanblade]

Agreed. We just need an even across the board raise now.

Year 3&4 were not fully corrected and lag behind 2003 substantially

PCP Percent of Captain pay was also not fully corrected.

Both of these issues are formula pay adjustments that happen in the background and if not corrected will disadvantage all FO's and year 3&4 permanently.

They need to be corrected before straight across the board raises

[Fanblade]

Year 1-4 pay as a percentage took the largest pay increases of all in 2024.

True. It's also true that year 3&4 and all RP's took the biggest pay cuts in our history in 2011.

If year 12 gets to recover? Everyone should recover.

We can't argue the benefits of a steep pay scale and then cut year 3&4 off at the knees.

Two years is painful. 4 years is way too much. That is not our history. Historically the pain was only 2 years. That's it.

From a personal finance perspective. 2 years, although painful, can be managed. 4 years often can't. 4 years requires ridiculous adjustments in some cases.

If we want to aspire to US wages? That means their base formula in its entirety. No one left behind.

By the way. I know full well once explained? You're on board

[Torontomaplelaughs]

Year 1-4 pay as a percentage took the largest pay increases of all in 2024. Entry pay has surpassed the 2003 inflation adjusted rates. Everything else just barely caught up

Absolutely. It's not perfect for anyone in this place, but junior pilots certainly are not being ignored.

Lol!

Im sure junior pilots love flying with you to hear how they got more.

Despite the odd thing of math and actual money in the pocket argument getting in the way.

4% on $400k is better than 8% at $90k! Right? Right?!

That's less than half?!

[Hysteria]

What is year 1 and 2 pay at AC in 2026 anyway?

[altiplano]

Year 1-4 pay as a percentage took the largest pay increases of all in 2024.

True. It's also true that year 3&4 and all RP's took the biggest pay cuts in our history in 2011.

If year 12 gets to recover? Everyone should recover.

We can't argue the benefits of a steep pay scale and then cut year 3&4 off at the knees.

Two years is painful. 4 years is way too much. That is not our history. Historically the pain was only 2 years. That's it.

From a personal finance perspective. 2 years, although painful, can be managed. 4 years often can't. 4 years requires ridiculous adjustments in some cases.

If we want to aspire to US wages? That means their base formula in its entirety. No one left behind.

By the way. I know full well once explained? You're on board

My only point was that the bottom didn't get nothing.

It's arguable that the RPs took the pay cut when their pay went to the position group and subsidizing EMJ FO pay. Then the EMJ came out and RPs were left with basically the group rate. What a screw up from ACPA when they knew the EMJs were going and they didn't even air l argue the rate. PG RPs should have gone to the grandfathered rate when PG was shut down.

Do that again to bring up RP to the old level and then watch it get flushed away.

We should be eliminating RP. Maybe lobbying at the regulator. There are plenty of reasons. If they do the with for us and eliminate RP, we make gains for nothing. Or strengthen augment rules in the contract. Less RP role, more full crew augment. That mimics US airlines.

[altiplano]

Year 1-4 pay as a percentage took the largest pay increases of all in 2024. Entry pay has surpassed the 2003 inflation adjusted rates. Everything else just barely caught up

Absolutely. It's not perfect for anyone in this place, but junior pilots certainly are not being ignored.

Lol!

Im sure junior pilots love flying with you to hear how they got more.

Despite the odd thing of math and actual money in the pocket argument getting in the way.

4% on $400k is better than 8% at $90k! Right? Right?!

That's less than half?!

Do you think everyone should get dollar for dollar equal raises? $5 for RP, $5 for 5 year FO, $5 for 30 year CA?

That's ridiculous. Top rates go up, year 3-12 FO PCP follows the percentage. And entry rates got an even bigger percentage and I'm sure they do next time too.

[altiplano]

For those of you not reading your ALPA emails.

Fellow Pilots,

We write to you today, exactly one year since the ratification of our Collective Agreement.


Contract Implementation
Last year, thousands of you engaged in the negotiating process, volunteering your time standing with and supporting one another – all while demonstrating your professionalism and commitment to safety. We achieved many important improvements - gains we all expected to be honoured by our employer. It is clear that critical aspects of the agreement, many that are of high importance to our Pilots, remain unimplemented.

As your MEC, we see these delays on significant items, ranging from quality-of-life improvements to IT upgrades, as a lack of respect for the Pilots who have given so much to this company.

The company has indicated that they will be granting NetLine access to our Scheduling Committee next week, an important implementation piece to ensure contract compliance. They are also working with us on a solution to the promised No-Fee Commuting/Jumpseat agreement but have indicated that it is not likely to be implemented until early next year. We see this date as too far in the future for a company that says they respect their employees, in a profession where jumpseat travel is a longstanding tradition, and commuting is a fact of life for many.



Expedited Mediation Meeting

Our first session of expedited mediation for policy grievances – as outlined in our Collective Agreement – was held on September 26th. This session focused on 5 outstanding grievances originating from the implementation of the contract:

Failure to Assign Open Time to PoRs on a Best Fit Basis (Grievance No. 2025POL004)
Failure to Implement A28.02.11.01 (Pilots wishing to be considered for flying within a –2/+4 window of their RAP start time - Grievance No. 2025POL006)
Application of A25.06.08 (Deadhead home following flight duty - Grievance No. 2025POL001)
Application of Articles 18.03.03 and 25.06.09 (Meal allowance - Grievance No. 2025POL012)
ALPA Duty Release (Grievance No. 2025POL003)
Our Grievance Committee, ALPA Representation staff and subject matter experts arrived prepared and presented clear, detailed proposals on implementation timelines, training commitments, and damages. The mediator shuttled between the parties; however, the company only presented a single global counteroffer that proposed:

Further delays in implementation of contractual obligations
Sunset clauses on remedies
Rejected all damages, and
Required ALPA to withdraw existing grievances in exchange for partial compliance with our contract.
Following the meeting, we were advised that a further counteroffer would be forthcoming – to date, nothing has been received. Considering their conduct, we question whether the company entered mediation in good faith. Your MEC has since notified the company that we are proceeding to arbitration immediately on all files. Given that Arbitrator Gedalof has no available hearing dates until late 2027, we have requested:

Assignment of different arbitrators for each grievance, or
That all five grievances proceed via Agreed Statements of Fact and written legal argument, avoiding lengthy delays for hearing dates.
To date the company has refused to agree to either approach. We see these actions of the company as tactics designed to deliberately delay the mediation/arbitration process – banking on a procedural backlog to push critical issues into the next bargaining cycle. A follow-up meeting with Arbitrator Gedalof is scheduled for next week to address these issues.


Summary
Air Canada Pilots deserve better. The company’s repeated delays and lack of meaningful engagement in the process are unacceptable and stand in stark contrast to their messaging of respect and partnership. Real respect is earned by honouring commitments, not from empty slogans. Your MEC will continue to take every action necessary to hold management accountable and to ensure full implementation of the collective agreement you have earned.

We wish you a Happy Thanksgiving and hope you’re able to spend some time with family and loved ones.


In solidarity,

Your ACA MEC

[Dias]

Next time you're considering voting yes on a TA instead of striking remember the TA's not worth the paper it's printed on.

[cdnavater]

Next time you're considering voting yes on a TA instead of striking remember the TA's not worth the paper it's printed on.

I fail to see the difference, a strike would result in a TA that would have the same paper

[thepoors]

For those of you not reading your ALPA emails.

Fellow Pilots,

We write to you today, exactly one year since the ratification of our Collective Agreement.


Contract Implementation
Last year, thousands of you engaged in the negotiating process, volunteering your time standing with and supporting one another – all while demonstrating your professionalism and commitment to safety. We achieved many important improvements - gains we all expected to be honoured by our employer. It is clear that critical aspects of the agreement, many that are of high importance to our Pilots, remain unimplemented.

As your MEC, we see these delays on significant items, ranging from quality-of-life improvements to IT upgrades, as a lack of respect for the Pilots who have given so much to this company.

The company has indicated that they will be granting NetLine access to our Scheduling Committee next week, an important implementation piece to ensure contract compliance. They are also working with us on a solution to the promised No-Fee Commuting/Jumpseat agreement but have indicated that it is not likely to be implemented until early next year. We see this date as too far in the future for a company that says they respect their employees, in a profession where jumpseat travel is a longstanding tradition, and commuting is a fact of life for many.



Expedited Mediation Meeting

Our first session of expedited mediation for policy grievances – as outlined in our Collective Agreement – was held on September 26th. This session focused on 5 outstanding grievances originating from the implementation of the contract:

Failure to Assign Open Time to PoRs on a Best Fit Basis (Grievance No. 2025POL004)
Failure to Implement A28.02.11.01 (Pilots wishing to be considered for flying within a –2/+4 window of their RAP start time - Grievance No. 2025POL006)
Application of A25.06.08 (Deadhead home following flight duty - Grievance No. 2025POL001)
Application of Articles 18.03.03 and 25.06.09 (Meal allowance - Grievance No. 2025POL012)
ALPA Duty Release (Grievance No. 2025POL003)
Our Grievance Committee, ALPA Representation staff and subject matter experts arrived prepared and presented clear, detailed proposals on implementation timelines, training commitments, and damages. The mediator shuttled between the parties; however, the company only presented a single global counteroffer that proposed:

Further delays in implementation of contractual obligations
Sunset clauses on remedies
Rejected all damages, and
Required ALPA to withdraw existing grievances in exchange for partial compliance with our contract.
Following the meeting, we were advised that a further counteroffer would be forthcoming – to date, nothing has been received. Considering their conduct, we question whether the company entered mediation in good faith. Your MEC has since notified the company that we are proceeding to arbitration immediately on all files. Given that Arbitrator Gedalof has no available hearing dates until late 2027, we have requested:

Assignment of different arbitrators for each grievance, or
That all five grievances proceed via Agreed Statements of Fact and written legal argument, avoiding lengthy delays for hearing dates.
To date the company has refused to agree to either approach. We see these actions of the company as tactics designed to deliberately delay the mediation/arbitration process – banking on a procedural backlog to push critical issues into the next bargaining cycle. A follow-up meeting with Arbitrator Gedalof is scheduled for next week to address these issues.


Summary
Air Canada Pilots deserve better. The company’s repeated delays and lack of meaningful engagement in the process are unacceptable and stand in stark contrast to their messaging of respect and partnership. Real respect is earned by honouring commitments, not from empty slogans. Your MEC will continue to take every action necessary to hold management accountable and to ensure full implementation of the collective agreement you have earned.

We wish you a Happy Thanksgiving and hope you’re able to spend some time with family and loved ones.


In solidarity,

Your ACA MEC

What a joke of a country we live in...4 year contract but it takes 4 years to get anything enforced. Company allowed to drag its feet indefinitely and I'm sure it will only get worse when we enter negots again.

On a positive note, this is the kind of messaging we need from ALPA. Hope this keeps up.

[digits_]

This is when employees in other Western countries would go on strike.

(Not a dig at ALPA or AC, but at the state of employee rights in Canada)

[altiplano]

On a positive note, this is the kind of messaging we need from ALPA. Hope this keeps up.

Absolutely. So my suggestion is what I have been saying, eyes open and guns out at who/what we are all really up against. Our ALPA reps are AC Pilots like the rest of us and are working in a difficult system against an employer that acts in bad faith, and doesn't respect us or the contract they agreed to.

Next time you are asked to help, extend, move up, make it work, work VO, sit in Y, whatever - remember what they are doing to us, remember they are liars and only want compliance, remember that they don't give a shit about you or your work life or the issues we all deal with in this job. Fly your block and follow the contract, that's what we can all do.

[Dry Guy]

No strike or lockout until certain requirements met

89 (1) No employer shall declare or cause a lockout and no trade union shall declare or authorize a strike unless

(a) the employer or trade union has given notice to bargain collectively under this Part;

(b) the employer and the trade union

(i) have failed to bargain collectively within the period specified in paragraph 50(a), or

(ii) have bargained collectively in accordance with section 50 but have failed to enter into or revise a collective agreement;

[altiplano]

(ii) have bargained collectively in accordance with section 50 but have failed to enter into or revise a collective agreement;

I don't think that "revise" includes implementation. But it's an interesting thought. I'll Wild Cat with you. Or perhaps if we could all do some type of job action that wasn't illegal to pressure the company? I don't know, like WORK TO RULE. Fly your block, follow the contract!

Or at least get your lanyards back on. Wear your pin. Lost solidarity = lost gains.

We only hurt ourselves with petulance because CA1 didn't turn out or go the way we hoped. We need to get back to it, the company never stops trying to erode our gains, undermine our representation, take what is ours.

[digits_]

Here's a thought: do you know what they call a wild cat strike in most European countries? A strike.

For a country where citizens have the constitional right to strike, there sure are a lot of attempts to prohibit one from exercising that right.

At some point enough is enough.

Either way, best of luck!