doug ronan removed as director from copa

[sportingrifle]

Just re-joined. Not renewing my membership was an attempt to send a message, now hopefully my renewal will send another one. I support you , now get it right.

sportingrifle

[AirFrame]

There's only one man to replace Kevin Psutka, and we all know who it is.

Colonel Sanders for president.

He'd get my vote.

[BGH]

If they want me to rejoin then they can send me an email & ask me,they still owe me a year of dues as they didn't give me a refund when I told them to cancel my membership.

Daryl
Former 1500860

[2R]

ATAC

[jjbaker]

If they want me to rejoin then they can send me an email & ask me,they still owe me a year of dues as they didn't give me a refund when I told them to cancel my membership.

Daryl
Former 1500860

[2R]

http://www.atac.ca/web/en/

There is a choice

[CpnCrunch]

http://www.atac.ca/web/en/

There is a choice

Useless for me. I don't transport anything apart from myself and the occasional non-paying, willing victim. COPA seems like it might be worth another shot now.

[sportingrifle]

I don't think that ATAC is any sort of help with general aviation. ATAC lobbies (hard and well) for commercial aviation. They seem to either ignore GA or at times have a history of throwing recreational aviation under the bus if it furthers their aims. Let's try to reset COPA. Get rid of Pstuka, undo the change to the constitution that the lemmings voted for last year, return it to the grass roots, and make sure that the directors are responsible to their members and only to their members.

sportingrifle

[fleet16b]

I don't think that ATAC is any sort of help with general aviation. ATAC lobbies (hard and well) for commercial aviation. They seem to either ignore GA or at times have a history of throwing recreational aviation under the bus if it furthers their aims. Let's try to reset COPA. Get rid of Pstuka, undo the change to the constitution that the lemmings voted for last year, return it to the grass roots, and make sure that the directors are responsible to their members and only to their members.

sportingrifle

Exactly
The COPA Board has a chance now to set things right.
Admitting it was a wrong move would show maturity and send a message to the membership that they are serious about making things right.
Improved transparency is another area they need to work on. All elections should be electronic so that members across Canada can vote. Just looking at the numbers present at the AGM shows that voted, it was minimal at best. This would all but eliminate the proxy method which is flawed as used by COPA presently. There is also the odd director that should not even be sitting on the board but that is up to the membership to decide thru the voting system
There are many people that I know that are coming up for renewal who are not planning on returning .
The departure of the CEO may be a step in the right direction but it is not the only thing needed to repair the problems. As quoted above we need to reverse this damaging change to the constitution that took place at the AGM . It was not voted in by the membership.

[jjbaker]

The COPA Board has a chance now to set things right.

The BOD never had nor will it ever have a reason to change a single thing.
Business as usual. Revenue. Memberships. Things will change when revenue tanks.
Members will nominate all kinds of high profile candidates, some will be given a "fair shake", but the replacement is already loaded and marked.

Removing the head off a rotten fish doesn't make the fish taste any better. The bylaws will not be touched. The proxy voting will continue. The membership will be lucky to have 0.0001% of a say on who occupies this seat (or any board seat) in the future. Besides, like often in these cases, the Executive Director "decided" to "retire". He was not fired nor did anyone state that he was "asked to resign", he is leaving seemingly at his leisure and on his terms. Like many Executive Directors, he is leaving with his reputation intact and publicly restored by the use of very complimenting words. Extraordinary vision! He is off to greener pastures, serving on this or that board of directors in the future. Whatever happened up to this point will now be ordered under the carpet and forgotten.

The arguments will be:

1. "That's the past. Lets Look forward."
2. "Give the new Executive time to..."
3. "Lets not talk about Doug Ronan..."
4. "We don't know what you are talking about..."
5. "Saying it like it is will subject COPA to litigation..."

People who continue to reject this type of kingdom rules will be shunned and silenced.
Magical figures will appear and preach that things are destined to be better in the future.
People will love it and follow. No questions asked. Smile for the camera.

Seen it before. If I am proven wrong, I will admit being wrong.
Until then, I am investing in popcorn and soda.

Edit to add:

Doug's situation will be slightly different. His integrity has been undermined and his reputation has been damaged.
While those who stood behind him during the past will continue to do so, his standing and opportunity within COPA are destroyed.
He might always be "that guy" and I am afraid that he will not receive an apology or have the wrong picture that is presented about him righted.

[AirFrame]

@jjbaker nails it. I agree, nothing will be "undone" or "reversed" or "righted" now that Kevin is leaving. What's done is done, and the current status quo makes it easier for the board to continue in this fashion... There's no incentive to change anything.

[CpnCrunch]

@jjbaker nails it. I agree, nothing will be "undone" or "reversed" or "righted" now that Kevin is leaving. What's done is done, and the current status quo makes it easier for the board to continue in this fashion... There's no incentive to change anything.

I see it differently. The fiasco was created by Paul Hayes (and perhaps Kevin Psutka). As I understand it, most of the directors weren't entirely happy with what was happening, but they voted the way they did due to being persuaded/bullied by Kevin and Paul. Yes, they should have had the balls to stand up for themselves, but the sad reality is that the majority of the human population are just sheep. Now that we have different leadership, hopefully the organisation will move in a different direction now.

[Moose47]

G'day

I am the former Captain of COPA Flight 23. I will not even consider renewing my membership until this ill-thought out situation with Doug is rectified to my satisfaction. Right now that's looking like never!

Cheers...Chris

[Cat Driver]

The last thing on earth I would do is give that gang of inbreds a cent of my money, they are a festering scab on aviation.

[AirFrame]

They're also all we have right now. @CpnCrunch does make a good point, let's see if the directors *do* get to fix things.

@Moose47, I suspect with Kevin and Paul gone, Doug could re-join as a member, and stand for election. He can't simply be "reinstated".

[MUSKEG]

jjb-you obviously have had experience with self serving useless leadership. We are seeing your predictions come true already

Cat- susinct and to the point. The truth usually is.

[jjbaker]

jjb-you obviously have had experience with self serving useless leadership. We are seeing your predictions come true already.

Unfortunately, yes. Of course I didn't reach as high on the totem pole as Doug, and never managed to have my biography evaluated by esteemed peers. Still, we share a very similar story when it comes to right and wrong and what we stand for and where we bow out. Silence is the problem, not the solution. I chose and still choose to communicate openly and frankly because I always believed that pilots and aviation people will be forgiving of your transgressions if you communicate clearly and honestly. They will listen to you and deal with inconvenient subjects if they know that you won't sell them short.

These days such open talks are harder to establish because only the underdogs can speak freely without fear of retaliation and litigation. I noticed that I can write more freely and say what I think, because short of shooting me dead, nobody can take anything away from me. My association history and past battles have already destroyed my opportunity, my reputation and my business. The record never gets put straight. I was warned and knew 5 years ago that what I thought to be a light on the end of the tunnel was in fact a ginormous freight train. You can never be involved in taking big dogs down and walk away intact. The machine always moves and those who cause any stink get marked. As a community, we are good at ignoring these rather large, leathery looking animals.

Elephant-in-the-boardroom.jpg (145.01 KiB) Viewed 2597 times

Lets analyze the system, though, not the people. The people occupying this or that seat are simply the outgrowth of an institutionalized (and very much foggy) system that isn't transparent to people who haven't seen into it. People think they understand the bylaws and their purpose, but the purpose is usually never "more control, transparency or membership involvement". What I write isn't about me, Doug, Psutka, Hayes or any of my own past enemies or shadows. Its about a system that repeats itself, over and over and over. Eventually you can predict things from a mile out, because its the same system/ pattern, just with different faces and names.

Board meetings are interesting at their core. When a board meeting concludes that a single member or a fraction of the board disagrees with the majority, then the resignation (forced or voluntary) of that board member is the exact opposite of common sense and it is completely opposed to what the member expects from the board of directors. Discourse is needed and decisions cannot ever be set in such granite, that people start to remove their opponents by whichever means necessary. If I am the objecting member of a group, I want the group to sell me on their point, not destroy me.

As a manager I took this approach: Explain to me why I should put my name under this and if you are successful, I will do it. If I have to explain this to someone else, I would like to stand up for my decision and have arguments that convince these people that I acted in their best interest.

Removing disobedient characters is like replacing a captain of an airplane for pointing to a burning engine and declining to take off. In fact, taking a person off a board just because that person objects and communicates is an act of institutionalized idiocy. We should expect such from politicians and presidents, but not from upright walking humans.

The moral of the long story is that you're either with them, or you're against them.
It has become an act of war to criticize and challenge the kings or their system.

To me there is no difference between member and non member. The influence is exactly the same. 0. Zero.

[LousyFisherman]

Well, if jjb gets elected, MAYBE I'll consider rejoining

Seen the above in far too many places to be able to disagree

LF

[dstechnical]

250,000 pension putska package on his leaving
':-)

[jjbaker]

Well, if jjb gets elected...

No worries. I am exit stage left, off the continent and fishing in much shallower waters these days.
Wait what kind of separation package deal COPA % Psutka will yield.

I wouldn't want this job at 200K, besides I am sure you guys can find some high profile player who's bankrupted a couple of companies prior to jumping in this golden parachute job. Its the glorious inner sanctum of aviation to play at this level, once you're in you'll be financially safe and sound until you start smelling funny or dementia makes you ride your horse backwards.

[New_PIC]

I don't think the names matter any more because the system is in place now. Anyone who rocks the boat can be silenced and they don't even have to follow their own rules to do it. They may make a few gestures now but the COPA board can do whatever, or as little, as they feel like and be generously compensated for it. Not on my dime though.

To borrow from some american history:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
― Theodore Roosevelt