Professional pilots completely losing situational awareness and landing off-runway should be a serious concern to all in aviation in Canada. The fact that people seem to think we are over reacting is far more concerning to me.
On an ILS or any SCDA approach there should be zero discussion as to what to do at minimums. You either see it or you don't. This should not have happened.
I'd like to know which McDonalds the crew has managed to find work at, so I can avoid it.
I don't know why this is being taken so lightly? This crew should be fired on the spot. And don't start the "you weren't there.."bull shit! Everybody on board that flight could have very well ended up at a funeral Their own!
Illya
Clodhopper wrote:...On an ILS or any SCDA approach there should be zero discussion as to what to do at minimums. You either see it or you don't. This should not have happened.
So true - all decisions as to what to do should be made on the ground. I can recall calling an overshoot and just as I pushed power the F/O called that she had the lights. I had a brief moment where my mind went "Should I...?" but it was quickly squashed by the thought of "We've started the overshoot - we go around!" It's comforting to have a single decision to make at a single time and then act on it with no second guessing yourself. I'm a big fan of "Here's the plan, no waffling, no maybe's..."
#37 wrote:Hello Ewan, Cat Driver, Ilya and the gang have it all sewn up. Take a two week holiday.
On the surface that sounds condescending......on the surface. Prove us wrong #37. The crew lost SA and landed without visual reference to the ground.
Illya
PS
When are we going to crack down on this crap? This is not a clapped out Navajo from Armpit Airways. This was a modern transport category aircraft, flown by two trained pilots for our flag carrier. This should not happen. I don't buy "accidents happen", and neither should anybody. #37 seems to think a missed approach wasn't called for? That's the ONLY tune Cat and I are singing. Are we wrong? Were there extenuating circumstances? Perhaps they were tired? Maybe their paycheques are too small?
On the surface that sounds condescending......on the surface. Prove us wrong #37. The crew lost SA and landed without visual reference to the ground.
Illya
That was a " Landing " ?
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Prove you wrong, nope. Been around long enough to know a few dudes that have landed off the landing Surface. When the facts came out... guess what? Everyone went "ohhhh crap!, I can see how that went down!"
Perhaps that is the case, perhaps not, but with the attitudes some of the Avcanada gurus have we will never know, it's already black and white... hopefully Ewan here understands what a grey world aviation can be. Maybe then we will learn something.
One thing that has always pissed me off about this industry is pilot's who can't just say "they pooched it..." Pilots always seem to need to be told, "that could have happened to anyone......these guys were victims of circumstances....." Or "let's wait for the report to come out....." A report from even more people who weren't there. Pilots tend to deflect blame, blame anything but themselves or their brothers...
Illya
Illya, you will note that "they pooched it" is not an option I've ruled out.
The problem for you Illya, it's usually the least self aware of their own poor skills that are the first to want to go straight to hanging the pilots. That's why guys like Cat Driver etc are so funny (in a sad way on these forums. It's a pattern of behavior that makes alarm bells go off.
Carry on,
On the surface that sounds condescending......on the surface. Prove us wrong #37. The crew lost SA and landed without visual reference to the ground.
Illya
That was a " Landing " ?
I think they even ended up on a prepared runway soon after hitting the lights. So... definitely a landing.
Though possibly a "crash" landing.
That's why guys like Cat Driver etc are so funny (in a sad way on these forums. It's a pattern of behavior that makes alarm bells go off.
Carry on,
When you make a statement that is that personal 37 on this forum I believe I have the right under forum rules to ask you what alarm bells you hear regarding my competency and history as a pilot.
Quite frankly it is posters like you sniping from the comfort of anonymity that damages these forums.
So please explain what you mean by alarm bells.
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
#37 wrote: That's why guys like Cat Driver etc are so funny (in a sad way on these forums. It's a pattern of behavior that makes alarm bells go off.
Carry on,
You crack me up! Alarm bells are set off because people like Cat and myself have the nerve to criticize an airline crew for sticking one in early, blind, rather than open the taps and go try again? I guarantee Cat, and myself have done as many, or more approaches than any pilot on this forum. All have ended with landings ON the strip, or successful missed approaches. Does this "make alarm bells go off" in your head?
Illya
#37 wrote: That's why guys like Cat Driver etc are so funny (in a sad way on these forums. It's a pattern of behavior that makes alarm bells go off.
Carry on,
You crack me up! Alarm bells are set off because people like Cat and myself have the nerve to criticize an airline crew for sticking one in early, blind, rather than open the taps and go try again? I guarantee Cat, and myself have done as many, or more approaches than any pilot on this forum. All have ended with landings ON the strip, or successful missed approaches. Does this "make alarm bells go off" in your head?
Illya
Airline pilots, hmmmm....... reminds me a few years back with departures YFC RWY 15 and the issues we had with airlines who couldn't stay outside Camp Gagetown. Got to be quite a problem, even joked of having a lighted sign at departure end of runway indicating Turn right or left now!