C series

[altiplano]

Might as well fire up the Concorde...

London City with an all business CS isn't happening...

[Gino Under]

I'm not saying it's something Air Canada intends on doing. All Business Class in an A318 worked for BA. Why wouldn't it work for Air Canada?
The A220 has superior economics to an A318. Concorde isn't even close when it comes to DOC, but "time is money".

Gino

[Lightchop]

I'm not saying it's something Air Canada intends on doing. All Business Class in an A318 worked for BA. Why wouldn't it work for Air Canada?
The A220 has superior economics to an A318. Concorde isn't even close when it comes to DOC, but "time is money".

Gino

Because they were flying to new york not toronto.

[Speedalive]

There's got to be a decent amount of demand for YYZ-LON. AC alone has 4 wide-body flights from YYZ-LHR + competing service from the likes of BA, WS, TS, etc. I think re-configuring the Cseries to all business is a little out there, but I could see YYZ-LCY with a tech stop in YUL with the standard seating config. The A220 has the range for it and AC already serves a similar destination, catchment wise (YTZ). So they would have some experience marketing a destination like LCY. There's also a ton of connection opportunities on the YYZ side. You could basically get from downtown London to anywhere in Canada/US depending on the timing, and that wouldn't just appeal to business travelers, but perhaps also tourists who spend most of the time in the city, which would help fill the Y cabin.

It probably won't happen, but it's fun to think about.

[Gino Under]

C Series isn’t going to compete with anybody (to London) on peak hours out of YYZ or YUL. That’s not news. Off hours presents a different opportunity all together. Any aircraft configured with 42 J class seats is a tough sell on a good day. Planning, marketing, and schedule however could help rake in some good bucks for AC. Surely, it’s easier to entice 42 business class travellers than 200+ lowest-fare-possible budget travellers. Even for AC.
Leave YYZ 7:30 am and arrive in LCY around supper time, rested. Depart LCY a few days later, around 7:00 pm, get into YYZ near midnight.
Speaking from experience, those timings really help with jet lag.

But you’re right, it’s fun to speculate while realizing at the same time, it’s not likely to happen.

Gino

[WF9F]

Air Canada is not doing any ETOPS with the A220.
Only narrow body doing ETOPS at Mainline is the 737...
Official word from the A220 guys..
There will be no LCY!!
We have enough seats to LHR and take the train or a taxi to downtown!!

[altiplano]

C Series isn’t going to compete with anybody (to London) on peak hours out of YYZ or YUL. That’s not news. Off hours presents a different opportunity all together. Any aircraft configured with 42 J class seats is a tough sell on a good day. Planning, marketing, and schedule however could help rake in some good bucks for AC. Surely, it’s easier to entice 42 business class travellers than 200+ lowest-fare-possible budget travellers. Even for AC.
Leave YYZ 7:30 am and arrive in LCY around supper time, rested. Depart LCY a few days later, around 7:00 pm, get into YYZ near midnight.
Speaking from experience, those timings really help with jet lag.

But you’re right, it’s fun to speculate while realizing at the same time, it’s not likely to happen.

Gino

AC already run the "Day tripper, 868" on about that schedule, about an 08:30 departure out of YYZ, arrives in LHR in time for evening dinner and drinks. Depart LHR after supper and late arrival in YYZ...

It's a great flight from a crew perspective - normal sleep cycle - and serves primarily those staying in London/Toronto as there are fewer connection options available with those arrival times.

Even with the great CS economics, a full 787-9 with 30 in business, another 20 in premium economy and another 250 or so in economy has even better economics...

vs. London City? Where you have to start a new base with employees, managers, gates, desks, maintenance, etc., just to poach the most lucrative passengers out of your already prime time service that you make more money on... it doesn't make sense...

For BA, they have a presence in the city airport already, it's just one more flight, staff are in place anyway, they can even run connections through there to other routes...

Agreed, fun to think about... but not feasible...

[yycflyguy]

Air Canada is not doing any ETOPS with the A220.
Only narrow body doing ETOPS at Mainline is the 737...
Official word from the A220 guys..
There will be no LCY!!
We have enough seats to LHR and take the train or a taxi to downtown!!

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe no LCY, but I fully expect it to do secondary market ETOPs flying. Time will tell.

[WF9F]

There is no ETOPS certification for the A220.....

[Gino Under]

The CSeries/A220 is ETOPS certified for 180 minutes.
Korean Air Lines will use it to serve Japan from Seoul.
Up to Air Canada.

Gino

[WF9F]

Yes I know A220 has ETOPS but I should have said the 220 will not do ETOPS at AC...

[yycflyguy]

I'll take that bet!

[WF9F]

This from the top of the A220 group but I’ll take your money....easy money , hope your not on flat pay cause I’d feel bad taking from ya!!

[altiplano]

That's what I heard too... no ETOPs...

Prairies and LaGuardia.

Probably B-scale regional replacement flying too.

[WF9F]

And all going to Mainline...No talks or discussion of them doing anything Rouge....

[Joe Blow Schmo]

The CSeries/A220 is ETOPS certified for 180 minutes.
Korean Air Lines will use it to serve Japan from Seoul.
Up to Air Canada.

Gino

No ETOPS required for flights from Seoul to Japan. They range from 45 minutes to 2 hours depending on destination and never more than a few minutes away from an airport.

[altiplano]

And all going to Mainline...No talks or discussion of them doing anything Rouge....

Here's hoping... BUT...

No more talk or discussion required. They already happened!

53% gave it up in 2017... then KV and MH gave it the rest of the way earlier this year with the RRA MOA.

The corp can certainly do it... and outside the baselines on the RRA deal. The only way they don't is they figure they want something else there... maybe they start moving the rest of the 319s instead as the CS arrives.

We will see... but don't be surprised.

[yycflyguy]

This from the top of the A220 group but I’ll take your money....easy money , hope your not on flat pay cause I’d feel bad taking from ya!!

I'm sure you were told that.

Just like I was told:
"the Embraer auto brakes are coming next quarter."
"rouge is only for leisure markets"
"the company will be selecting the NEO over the 737"
"AC624 was a hard landing"
"AC878 encountered turbulence mid-flight"
"the 737 HUDs are coming next quarter"
"we have heard your concerns over uniform/luggage/layover hotel/FDT/pbs and are working on a solution"

and my personal fav:
"we have established a new working relationship with the pilots"

I still see potential for YHZ/YYT/YQB/YUL - secondary UK/France market ETOPs flying. There is no "top of the A220" right now other than the CP. They are presently recruiting to fill training/checking positions.

Those who make the decisions today will be replaced by those who change the decisions tomorrow. Circle of life, my friend, circle of life.

[groundpilot]

This from the top of the A220 group but I’ll take your money....easy money , hope your not on flat pay cause I’d feel bad taking from ya!!

I'm sure you were told that.

Just like I was told:
"the Embraer auto brakes are coming next quarter."
"rouge is only for leisure markets"
"the company will be selecting the NEO over the 737"
"AC624 was a hard landing"
"AC878 encountered turbulence mid-flight"
"the 737 HUDs are coming next quarter"
"we have heard your concerns over uniform/luggage/layover hotel/FDT/pbs and are working on a solution"

and my personal fav:
"we have established a new working relationship with the pilots"

I still see potential for YHZ/YYT/YQB/YUL - secondary UK/France market ETOPs flying. There is no "top of the A220" right now other than the CP. They are presently recruiting to fill training/checking positions.

Those who make the decisions today will be replaced by those who change the decisions tomorrow. Circle of life, my friend, circle of life.

Indeed

[WF9F]

Ok boys I gues we will revisit this thread in a couple years and see ....I’ll go with what I was told.
Yes there is no top of the A220 but there are people instrumental in getting it up and going , if ETOPS were coming they’d know, just like they did with the 737s.
Also those routes from YUL/YYT/YHZ to the UK and France are done by the 737.
If they were going to Rouge and/or getting ETOPS then that would require regulatory work with TC and that is not the case.

[Gino Under]

Korean want ETOPS for the A220. I'm assuming they plan to use it for ETOPS flights 'somewhere' in their system or they wouldn't have asked for it. Whatever their reasons may be? If my example of Japan was my bad, My bad.
It doesn't matter if AC needs ETOPS for the A220 or not. Does it? They have an asset capable of 180 minutes ETOPS. That's the point. How they choose or if they decide to use it on ETOPS sectors is a whole other conversation.
I just pointed out an example route. Some get it, some don't.
... movin' on.

Gino

[pianokeys]

Korean want ETOPS for the A220.

They probably want it because three out of four sides of that country is water.

Five bucks we will finally see YHZ-YYC year round service with a C series.

[fish4life]

Korean want ETOPS for the A220.

They probably want it because three out of four sides of that country is water.

Five bucks we will finally see YHZ-YYC year round service with a C series.

Canada also has 3 of 4 sides with an ocean

[pianokeys]

Korean want ETOPS for the A220.

They probably want it because three out of four sides of that country is water.

Five bucks we will finally see YHZ-YYC year round service with a C series.

Canada also has 3 of 4 sides with an ocean

Settle down there exacto, Canada is also 4800km wider than Korea.

[Ironman2909]

Just started a course a week ago, we (read AC) hired the #2 A220 Test Pilot from Bombardier. He mentioned that AC bought the 300 ETOPS (whole fleet). We also picked alot of interesting features that comes as options on the aircraft. This is all related to when Murray took office, ie HUD equipped aircraft (737, A220, 787....etc) all in the interest of safety.

Just sad that Murray was not in office when they were choosing the options for the 737....there's a lot of nice features that were available that we didn't pick, ie ''ICE detect'' light that would have been nice to have......