Directive from Minister issued yesterday.

[AuxBatOn]

You can't force people to sleep and rest. It's their sense of duty and responsibility that will do that for him. If a company provides the time for someone to reat but the individual doesn't, what else should be done?! Tie them to a bed in a hot room with soothing music?

Also, because someone is tired doesn't automatically make it a contributing factor to an accident.

Sorry 8 hours. We use 12 hours in the military. My overall point still stands.

[Ricktye]

Or eight...

Alcohol or Drugs - Crew Members
CAR 602.03 No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft
(a) within eight hours after consuming an alcoholic beverage;
(b) while under the influence of alcohol; or
(c) while using any drug that impairs the person's faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way.

Regardless, I think drug and alcohol use in our industry is a lot more prevelant than we'd like to admit, especially drugs, considering how wide spread recreational use is in our society.

There is still a quantity associated with drinking in the CARs. 12 hours. If you bust that, you will be charged. Same with crew rest. You can be charged for busting crew rest but not practically for being tired since there is no measurand on fatigue (I said practically because even though CARs say you cannot fly tired, it is entirely subjective). It is quite simple really.

[goingnowherefast]

Somebody at the end of their 3rd 12 hour day needs to fall asleep in the cockpit between flights. Will get noticed by the passengers and probably the CBC. Not sure how to get the police involved.

*edited for type-o

[photofly]

It won't be on Air Canada - their pilots are alllowed to fall asleep in the cockpit.

[Rockie]

It won't be on Air Canada - their pilots are alllowed to fall asleep in the cockpit.

Controlled rest is a fatigue countermeasure allowed at every company, not just Air Canada. Every company utilizes it as well, and I can say that AC's procedures for it are strict. It is no substitute though for showing up for work rested and fit for duty. If you're not, CAR 602.02 applies.

[pelmet]

It won't be on Air Canada - their pilots are alllowed to fall asleep in the cockpit.

Controlled rest is a fatigue countermeasure allowed at every company, not just Air Canada. Every company utilizes it as well, and I can say that AC's procedures for it are strict. It is no substitute though for showing up for work rested and fit for duty. If you're not, CAR 602.02 applies.

It is definitely not allowed at every company. But it may be done at most airline companies. I can guarantee you that it has been done at my companies.

[Rockie]

It won't be on Air Canada - their pilots are alllowed to fall asleep in the cockpit.

Controlled rest is a fatigue countermeasure allowed at every company, not just Air Canada. Every company utilizes it as well, and I can say that AC's procedures for it are strict. It is no substitute though for showing up for work rested and fit for duty. If you're not, CAR 602.02 applies.

It is definitely not allowed at every company. But it may be done at most airline companies. I can guarantee you that it has been done at my companies.

Perhaps not. I was speaking from a regulatory standpoint which allows it. CAR 700.23. I should also say pilots have always had naps in airplanes whether it was permitted by regs or not. Wisely TC recognized the value and formalized it.

[photofly]

Tricky to arrange in single pilot ops. I guess you can get one of the passengers to wake you.

[B208]

Tricky to arrange in single pilot ops.

Exactly. Further, single pilot ops take place at the smaller charter and air taxi operators where owners and operators are more likely to pressure a young pilot to fly tired.

[timel]

Sadly, there were not enough accidents (airplanes bent, people hurt) and there is no solid legal framework to bring steam to the issue.

What we need is pilots to get together and start shaking things at the government. There are enough angry pilots to wake up the medias. Waiting for the bst to link an accident to fatigue is a waste of time.

This is a quote from the previous attempt of NPA and I very much agree with B208, smaller operation pilots are the ones that need the most the government help right now, and they are the ones that will be left hanging on their own after 705 get what they want.

An important statistic to be aware of is that in the period of 1 January 2002 to 5 July 2012, accidents involving aircraft operating under CARs subpart 704 (commuter operations), 702 (aerial work) and 703 (air taxi operations) together accounted for 94% of all commercial air accidents and 95% of commercial air fatalities. 1 A majority of these accidents have human performance related cause factors (i.e.: judgement or decision making). It is a fact that human performance is impaired by fatigue. This is not to say that all of these human performance related accidents are caused by fatigue, but it is a reasonable assumption to assume that fatigue is a contributing factor. A 90 hour work week or multiple consecutive 90 hour work weeks are not acceptable given the current fatigue science. A closer look at many of the aviation accidents in the past five years shows that in 70-90% of these events – pilot decision making played a role. When a pilot is fatigued decision making is also affected and is therefore a contributing cause to aviation accidents.

[AirFrame]

Alcohol or Drugs — Crew Members
602.03 No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft (a) within eight hours after consuming an alcoholic beverage;
(b) while under the influence of alcohol; or
(c) while using any drug that impairs the person’s faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way.

Let's consider that my Blood Alcohol level is at 0.03, under the limit where I can be criminal charged (0.08) but in clear violation of the CARs......

The CAR's don't say that .03 is a "clear violation". You could drink enough to still have .03 in your bloodstream 8 hours after you stopped. .03 is less than one drink for an ICAO standard male, and the criminal code has judged that .08 or lower doesn't constitute impairment.

[dash8dave]

The hi-lighted part "under the influence of alcohol", 0.03 (though under the limit criminally) could still be interpreted to be "under the influence". I know that I used to focus on the first part of 8 hours and just kinda blew off the other part about being under the influence of alcohol. I think that this is open to interpretation and is kind of a TC way of a catch-all. This is the dangerous part.

And a big thing to remember, the CARs are for operations in Canada. When operating internationally, that limit can and does drop to 0.04% in the FAA's world and most of the rest of the world. When we are operating in foreign airspace we are bound by their regulations and laws. This includes any differences filed to ICAO. There were a couple of incidents (in Glasgow I think) where a couple of flight crews were nipped under that rule. So all of a sudden that 0.03 is a lot closer to the limit and will probably result in additional time and testing, which could ultimately result in over 0.04 which, in Canada is 'legal' (or is it? Influence and all).

The IS-BAO standard is 10 hours bottle to throttle so if your company has an IS-BAO certification then your OM should state that, and then the 8 hour rule is no longer in effect as your company has said that the regs are not strict enough and they want 10 hours. I know of one helicopter operator that has a 24 hour no drinking policy. The way they enforce that is that you show up to work a whole 24 hours prior to being behind the controls. You are given office type tasks and always sleep/stay in the company provided sterile (dry) compound. This way they can be assured that no pilot will be intoxicated.