Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

[Gilles Hudicourt]

How about a look at death statistics in Canada ?

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71- ... 17-eng.htm

This Dashboard compares total deaths in Canada from Jan to May for the period 2014-2020 (deaths from all causes combined)

They came up with an excess death count, meaning how many additional people died in 2020 when compared to the other years. The peak in deaths occurred between mid march and the third week of may but is only apparent for the 65 and older. For the 45 to 64 year group, the deaths in 2020 were significantly lower than other years, because I guess that those who normally fall through the ice while fishing or run into tress with their snowmobiles were locked up at home having tea with their wives.......

You can beak it down by sex, age group, and Province. Have a look.......

[Inverted2]

Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.

[Rockie]

Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.

Do you have a source for that or do we just take your word for it?

[Inverted2]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7184850/bc-o ... june-2020/

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.4968581

Here you go. There are many others if you google it.

[Rockie]

In these two stories overdoses are actual whereas, and this in no way minimizes the seriousness of the issue, suicides are a "potential risk". It highlights another way this virus affects society, but this isn't an either/or situation. You cannot stop measures against the virus to prevent other societal effects, you have to find a balance and deal with both.

[Inverted2]

Well I’m not going to waste my day arguing with you sir, but a family member is an OPP officer and he said there have been a lot more lately. The suicides you don’t hear about. They just don’t get put in the news because of the hurt to the family members and the whole not shaming mental illness stuff.

The media doesn’t mind telling the audience that a 93 year old died in a nursing home from Covid but they don’t like telling you about the 38 year old who lost his job and stood in front of a CN train.

[Rockie]

I said I'm not minimizing the risk, but you have to ask yourself what society would have looked like had we not taken drastic action to get this under control. Hint: The US is giving you a preview.

[palebird]

The US is giving us a preview of what? Are you watching the "news" again? Guess what... when the US elections are all said and done at the end of the year the corona virus will magically dissappear off the radar screens. Imagine that...And this is the reality you should be paying attention to.

[Rockie]

The US is giving us a preview of what? Are you watching the "news" again? Guess what... when the US elections are all said and done at the end of the year the corona virus will magically dissappear off the radar screens. Imagine that...And this is the reality you should be paying attention to.

Some stupid is unfixable.

[photofly]

Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.

Your apparent choice between overdoses and suicides, and COVID19 deaths, is a false dichotomy. It's proper to take steps to minimize both.

[Aviatard]

Guess what... when the US elections are all said and done at the end of the year the corona virus will magically dissappear off the radar screens. Imagine that...And this is the reality you should be paying attention to.

Flatearthers: we are the apex of the Dunning-Kruger effect
Coronavirus deniers: hold my beer

[pelmet]

Speaking of stupidity this is hard to believe:-

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronav ... ies-trend/

When you're dealing this level of stupidity you have to keep the borders closed imho.

And here in Canada as well which means one can expect the borders to be kept closed as people can't be trusted to stay in their bubble....There is every expectation that travellers to Europe will behave the same. And I see that Spain has been cut off from the UK now. As long as the policy is to stop the spread top avoid a shutdown, that is the way it will have to be. Try flying/vacationing domestically. That is what I an doing which is good for the economy.

"Officers clear out "disheartening" Brampton house party with 200 attendees

BRAMPTON, Ont. — Police west of Toronto say bylaw officers broke up a house party attended by as many as 200 people on Saturday night.

Peel Regional Police say the partygoers in Brampton, Ont., were violating provincial emergency orders enacted because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Peel Region remains in Stage 2 of the province's reopening plan, limiting gatherings to a maximum of 10 people with physical distancing in effect.

Police say nearby residents called in to report the party just before 10 p.m., and bylaw officers arrived on scene about an hour later.

They say it took another hour to clear out the party.

Police say they didn't lay criminal charges, but a spokesperson for the City of Brampton says the organizer was issued a fine of $880 and will also be charged under the public nuisance bylaw.

Const. Kyle Villers of Peel police called the incident "disheartening."

"It shows the complete disregard for the health and well being of everybody in Brampton," he said. "To have a party with this many people giving the state of the world with COVID-19 is a ripe opportunity for another outbreak."

Villers said it only takes one person to show symptoms to have hundreds of cases come out, which affects the greater community.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published July 26, 2020.

[fish4life]

I said I'm not minimizing the risk, but you have to ask yourself what society would have looked like had we not taken drastic action to get this under control. Hint: The US is giving you a preview.

The US is showing what happens if you don’t use masks or even care about distancing. If you open responsibly you can absolutely manage the virus and still keep everything open.

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

getting sick and tired of this garbage. no disease has ever been tracked in real time. Mortality rate as the same as the flu. WHAT THE F is going on with this planet. Fking social media is destroying everything. If you are SCARED STAY HOME. Order everything you need online. DO NOT stop other ppl from living. This isn't ebola.

Really really sick and tired of this crap. I am one of those whose mental health is getting greatly affected by this. My wife and I both lost our jobs and have kids.....Enough is enough. Fuking snowflake society.

Targeted restrictions. targeted quarantines. IF YOU ARE SCARED STAY HOME!!!

[AuxBatOn]

getting sick and tired of this garbage. no disease has ever been tracked in real time. Mortality rate as the same as the flu. WHAT THE F is going on with this planet. Fking social media is destroying everything. If you are SCARED STAY HOME. Order everything you need online. DO NOT stop other ppl from living. This isn't ebola.

Really really sick and tired of this crap. I am one of those whose mental health is getting greatly affected by this. My wife and I both lost our jobs and have kids.....Enough is enough. Fuking snowflake society.

Targeted restrictions. targeted quarantines. IF YOU ARE SCARED STAY HOME!!!

Seriously, if you need someone to talk/vent, PM me.

[Rockie]

Targeted restrictions. targeted quarantines.

That is what they’re doing, but that only works once the virus is under control which was very bitter but necessary medicine. I’m sorry you lost your jobs. Doing this properly is the fastest way to get them back, doing this improperly will delay that as it is in the US.

[sstaurus]

I get the frustration, at our house we have been affected by job loss as well. But once you say the word ‘snowflake’ I stop listening.

There may be job loss now, but you would also have no job down the road if the virus had been allowed to just run rampant, hoping for it to just ‘disappear’. Equating it to the flu is also a non starter. It may be comforting to you, but long term effects for many infected are only starting to come out, even for those who only got the sniffles. Say goodbye to your medical if you are unlucky enough to get saddled with any of those side effects.

[RRJetPilot]

I think Mike Rowe has it right. Worth the read:

Q: In a recent post, you said you’ve been to Tennessee and Georgia, giving speeches and filming for your new show. Before that, you were on the road shooting for Dirty Jobs. Is it really so important to film a television show in the midst of pandemic? Is it responsible of you to encourage this kind of behavior when infection rates are spiking? Don’t you watch the news? More and more cases every day – aren’t you concerned?

Darlene Gabon

A:
Hi Darlene

Of course, I’m concerned. I’m just not petrified.

On March 15th, the day after my part of the country was locked down, I posted a link to an interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm. I’m posting it again, because I believe you and everyone else in the country would benefit from listening carefully to what he has to say.
Dr. Osterholm is the Director of Infectious Disease Research and Policy. This is the same epidemiologist who ten years ago, predicted a coronavirus would come from China and turn our country upside down. In his book “Deadliest Enemies,” he anticipated the utterly irresponsible way in which the media would report on the situation, the completely opportunistic and shamelessly political way our leaders would likely react, and the unprecedented chaos and confusion that would arise from all the mixed messages from the medical community. His resume is unexampled, https://bit.ly/3jvzQTW, and his analysis of the situation is the most logical and persuasive of any I’d heard so far. He’s also the only expert I know of who hasn’t walked back his numbers, reconsidered his position, or moved the goalposts with regard to what we must do, what we can do, and what he expects to happen next. I say all of this because Dr. Osterholm publicly predicted - in early MArch - that we could conservatively see over 100 million COVID cases in this country, with a very strong possibility of 480,000 fatalities – even if we successfully “flattened the curve.”

It took me a few weeks to accept this scenario, because 480,000 fatalities is a frightening number, and lot of other experts were saying lots of conflicting things. But eventually, I came to the conclusion that Dr. Osterholm was probably correct, and quickly navigated the four stages of grief that usually precede acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. By late April, I had come to accept Dr. Osterholm’s predictions as a matter of fact. Since then, I’ve had three full months to come to terms with the fact that, a) I am probably going to get COVID-19 at some point, b), I am almost certainly going to survive it, and c), I might very well give it to someone else.

I hope that doesn’t sound blasé, or glib, or fatalistic, or selfish. Four-hundred eighty thousand deaths is an obvious tragedy, and I’m deeply sympathetic to all who have been impacted thus far. I’m also very concerned for my parents, and everyone else in a high risk category. But when Dr. Osterholm says that COVID can be slowed but not stopped, I believe him. When he says a vaccine will not necessarily hasten herd immunity, I believe him. And when he says that people have confused “flattening the curve” with "eliminating the virus," I believe him.

Thus, for the last three months, I’ve been operating from the assumption that this is a year-round virus that’s eventually going to infect 100 million people and kill roughly 1/2 of one percent of those infected, conservatively. I’ve accepted those numbers. Unfortunately, millions of others have not. Many people have no sense of where this is headed, and I understand why. They've been betrayed by a hysterical media that insists on covering each new reported case as if it were the first case. Every headline today drips with dread, as the next doomed hotspot approaches the next "grim milestone." And so, for a lot of people, everyday is Groundhogs Day. They're paralyzed by the rising numbers because the numbers have no context. They don't know where it will end. But Dr. Osterholm says he does, and I'm persuaded that he's correct. He might be wrong, and frankly, I hope he is, but either way, he's presented us with a set of projections based on a logical analysis, and accepting those projections has allowed me to move past denial, anger, bargaining, and depression, and get on with my life with a better understanding of what the risks really are.

Fact is, we the people can accept almost anything if we’re given the facts, and enough time to get evaluate the risk and make our own decisions. Last year in this country, there were six million traffic accidents and 36,000 fatalities. Tragic, for sure. But imagine for a moment if no one had ever died from a car accident. Imagine if this year, America endured six million traffic accidents and 36,000 fatalities...for the first time ever. Now, imagine if these accidents and fatalities - over 16,000 and 90 per day respectively - imagine if they were reported upon like every new incidence of COVID. What would that do to our willingness to drive? For a while, I suspect it would keep us all off the roads, right? I mean, six million accidents out of the blue is a lot to process, and 36,000 deaths is scary – especially if you don’t know how high that number could get. It would take us a while to access the risk, before we blindly hopped into our cars again. Eventually though - after getting some context and perspective - we'd be able to evaluate the relative danger of operating a motor vehicle. Then, we could decide for ourselves when to drive, where to drive, and how much to drive. And so we do.

Again, don’t misunderstand. I’m not ignoring COVID, or downplaying COVID, or pretending the risks at hand aren’t real. Nor am I comparing COVID cases to car accidents - I'm simply comparing the fear of each to the other, and the fear that always accompanies uncertainty. I don’t want to get this disease or give it to someone else, any more than I want to be in a car car wreck that injures someone else. But I've accepted certain things about the pandemic, and now, I've gotten used to the risk as I understand it. I take precautions. I get tested as often as I can, and if I can't physically distance, I wear a mask – especially around higher risk people. Likewise, I wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limits, and check my mirrors before changing lanes. Yes - I’m aware that we’d all be a lot safer if we kept our cars in the garage. I’m also aware we’d be a lot safer if we all kept ourselves in the house. But that’s not why cars, or people, exist.

Anyway Darlene, that’s a long way of saying that I have accepted Dr. Osterholm’s numbers, and now, after three months of acceptance, I’ve made a decision on how I wish to live my life. Sooner or later, you will too. We all will.

Mike

PS. My foundation is selling masks to raise money for our next work-ethic scholarship program. They're going fast... https://www.bfit540.com/products/mike-r ... -face-mask

[goldeneagle]

The US is showing what happens if you don’t use masks or even care about distancing. If you open responsibly you can absolutely manage the virus and still keep everything open.

They sure are

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coro ... 43257.html
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COVID-19 patients will be ‘sent home to die’ if deemed too sick, Texas county says
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From farther down in the article
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The county has been forced to form what is being compared to a so-called “death panel.” A county health board – which governs Starr Memorial – is set to authorize critical care guidelines Thursday that will help medical workers determine ways to allocate scarce medical resources on patients with the best chance to survive.

A committee will deem which COVID-19 patients are likely to die and send them home with family, Jose Vasquez, the county health authority, said during a news conference Tuesday.

“The situation is desperate,” Vasquez said. “We cannot continue functioning in the Starr County Memorial Hospital nor in our county in the way that things are going. The numbers are staggering.”

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coro ... rylink=cpy
==============


The whole point of restrictions is to ensure our hospitals dont get to that stage, and so far, it's worked. One of the issues is, the time delay between relaxing restrictions and seeing the effects at the door to the ER at the hospital.

[RRJetPilot]

Fake news

From the guardian:

"“We are not ICU [intensive care unit] capable, but we are doing ICU work. We now have a state emergency response team of nurses, medics, respiratory therapists, and nurse assistants, and last week two doctors, nurses, and respiratory therapists came from the US Navy,” added Rios. “We are doing the best we can with the resources available.”

The guidelines have been referred to as “death panels” by critics of the Trump administration. The phrase was first popularized by Republican critics of Barack Obama’s healthcare reforms when they falsely claimed “death panels” would be used to decide who received critical treatment.

Starr county is not the first place to be forced to draw up guidelines for which Covid-19 patients it will treat. Critical care standards were first enacted in the US in Arizona on 3 July in response to requests from health service providers around the state. In early July, Arizona became a global coronavirus hot spot, though rates of positive cases have decreased since then.

“The standards have been activated by the state but I don’t think hospitals are using them right now,” said Will Humble, executive director of the Arizona Public Health Association. At present hospitals transfer coronavirus patients to different facilities to avoid capacity issues. "

[2R]

It is gonna be one step forward and two back .

[goldeneagle]

Fake news

Actually not, but feel free to continue saying its fake because it does not fit your world view.

https://www.borderreport.com/health/cor ... -patients/

==========
Starr County Health Authority Dr. Jose Vazquez said Starr County Memorial Hospital, the county’s only hospital, on Tuesday implemented an ethics committee and a triage committee to review all coronavirus patients as they come in to determine what type of life-saving equipment and treatment they would likely require and whether they would likely survive. Those deemed too fragile or sick or elderly will be advised to go home to loved ones, he said.

“There is nowhere to put these patients. The whole state of Texas and neighboring states have no ICU beds to spare for us,” Vazquez said Tuesday afternoon during a video conference call with media.

“We are going to have these committees reviewing each case,” Vazquez said. “End-of-life decisions and hospice decisions and comfort-care situation for all those patients who most certainly do not have any hope of improving we believe they will be better taken care in the love of their own family and home rather than thousands of miles away dying alone.”

==========

It's not something they are talking about, it's something they started doing on Tuesday last week.

[RRJetPilot]

Actually you are posting fear mongering fake news from unreputable sources. Your articles are over a week old. Here is a more recent And more reputable Guardian article:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguar ... ital-texas

Just because these panels exist does not mean they have been used. Please provide concrete evidence of at least one case where this has happened.

Otherwise you are fear mongering and not helping the situation in any way. Lots of things in the US are political and many of these articles fall into that category.

Lots of people in mental duress and stress because of the constant bombardment of fear news instead of factual based evidence.

[2R]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... gests.html

German study , might not apply to the Canadian version of the Virus .

[RRJetPilot]

Again posting fear rags instead of reading the actual study the rag tries to misrepresent.

Here is the link to the actual study:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaca ... erm=072720

I think if you read that and understand it you wouldn't post the "daily mail" link.