Use The Park Brake

[pelmet]

So should we use the parking brake or what?

One can see where the idea that they are not reliable can come from.

"a. Parking brakes are not reliable"

https://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/wp ... Manual.pdf

My experience. They have worked reliably every time I have used them on modern Cessna 172 aircraft.

[rookiepilot]

So should we use the parking brake or what?

One can see where the idea that they are not reliable can come from.

"a. Parking brakes are not reliable"

https://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/wp ... Manual.pdf

My experience. They have worked reliably every time I have used them on modern Cessna 172 aircraft.

That's nice they've worked for you. You've said this repeatedly.

Do you expect everyone else to change their mind, and their procedures, based on one anonymous poster on this issue, compared to well known and documented information -- like this manual and multiple flight instructors posting - presumably with a ton of Cessna time -- with many decades of experience?

I'm unsure what your goal is here.

Are you advising flight schools to change their ops manual?

[pelmet]

So should we use the parking brake or what?

One can see where the idea that they are not reliable can come from.

"a. Parking brakes are not reliable"

https://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/wp ... Manual.pdf

My experience. They have worked reliably every time I have used them on modern Cessna 172 aircraft.

That's nice they've worked for you. You've said this repeatedly.

Do you expect everyone else to change their mind, and their procedures, based on one anonymous poster on this issue, compared to well known and documented information -- like this manual and multiple flight instructors posting - presumably with a ton of Cessna time -- with many decades of experience?

I'm unsure what your goal is here.

Are you advising flight schools to change their ops manual?

I am advising pilots of light aircraft that when the engine is running, use the park brake when dealing with necessary distractions for any significant amount of time(unless it is realistically considered to be unreliable in which case an alternative safe plan should be used).

[rookiepilot]

When the engine is running, use the park brake when dealing with necessary distractions for any significant amount of time(unless it is realistically considered to be unreliable in which case an alternative safe plan should be used).

How do you know if it's reliable or not? You could assume, in which case if it slips, you'll end up like the pilot in the first post, and if you assume it's not reliable, then it's not to be trusted, and you should keep your eyes outside and your feet on the brake pedals.

I mean either you trust it 100% in which case if it fails and you roll into another airplane it wasn't your fault, like having an engine failure, no need to feel bad, or you don't trust it 100%, in which case, you have to keep your eyes outside regardless, and the brake isn't worth using. I just don't see a middle ground here.

I really don't see how you can ever take your eyes off the outside, with a whirling six or seven foot bar of aluminium going round five feet in front of you. Parking brakes, pedals, or even if the plane is tied down. If you really can't keep track of what's around you, I think you should shut the engine down.

As the world goes around In circles....

[pelmet]

My AME doesn't like using them. No instructor I've had in the past liked using them -- on Cessna singles anyway.

Perhaps they are all foolish, but I rate their in person advice rather above the internet on what is wise or not.

I don't fault someone for wanting to adjust the seat prior to taxi with the engine running. I've done that many times. Sometimes you think you have the seat set how you like it, only to realize you want to tweak it just so once you start looking around to taxi. Nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't mean the pilot wasn't prepared. I'm 6'4" and it takes me time to get adjusted exactly how I like in small aircraft. Often I have to re-adjust once the aircraft warms up and I take my jacket off, meaning I take my seat belt off, slide the seat a bit and remove my jacked, all with the engine running. Does nobody else have to do this? I most definitely use the park brake while I do it because keeping my feet on the brakes the entire time is tricky. This doesn't mean I'm unaware of what's going on outside... but I still rely on the park brake to hold the aircraft for the moment.

I agree the with the OP that the park brake should have been set, and on most aircraft it's quite reasonable to expect the park brake pressure to hold for the 10 seconds or less it takes to prop yourself up to shift your seat (which you can't do with your feet on the brakes in most aircraft I've flown). I agree that he should have been glancing outside as much as able, but at the same time if you can't trust the brake pressure to hold for 10 seconds, your plane is probably a piece of crap to begin with and you shouldn't fly it.

The whole park brake discussion about do/don't is so strange to me. It's like debating over the use of sunglasses. Is it sunny? ..sure use them, but wait! What if it's night, then it's harder to see?!?! But if the sun is burning your eyes... yeah, it's probably good to use them.

There's a time and place for this stuff and a certain level of awareness required in everything we do. I trust autopilot enough to read some SOP's during cruise, but it doesn't mean I'm going to take a nap.

And I respectfully disagree. Although I agree that you must not remove peripheral attention from outside the aircraft, I am pragmatic enough to recognize that mistakes happen.

As has been said above, had that pilot used the parking brake, this thread would not exist. I think that makes it very relevant to the discussion. Pilot inattention and use of the parking brake are separate, but connected issues here. The latter is a safety mechanism in case the former fails (and sooner or later, no matter how good you are, it will - most of us are just lucky when it happens).

As the world goes around in circles.....