CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

In other words, whether or not we have mask mandates will lead to a difference in cases of 0.5 to 1.9 percent.

What does this mean? In Canada we would have had an additional 10k covid cases in an entire year of pandemic?

That's assuming that without masks peoples behaviour doesn't change. But what do I know! You can't even see the stupid look on my face because it's hiding behind a mask.

No, no, no, and again, NO!

We would have an additional 0.5 to 1.9 percent every single day. How many times do I have to say it?

By your logic and your argument, montado, we would have TWENTY THOUSAND PERCENT more cases without masks. I fail to understand how you cannot understand that your own argument proves this.

Ahah so 183 million Canadians would have been infected. Great math... So in other words every Canadian would have been infected many times with no masks.

Yes. Precisely. Which entirely invalidates the research paper you provided in another thread, and ergo any conclusions you came to based on it.

[montado]

No, no, no, and again, NO!

We would have an additional 0.5 to 1.9 percent every single day. How many times do I have to say it?

By your logic and your argument, montado, we would have TWENTY THOUSAND PERCENT more cases without masks. I fail to understand how you cannot understand that your own argument proves this.

Ahah so 183 million Canadians would have been infected. Great math... So in other words every Canadian would have been infected many times with no masks.

Yes. Precisely. Which entirely invalidates the research paper you provided in another thread, and ergo any conclusions you came to based on it.

Herd immunity never looked so good I think your math is in Lalaland. Whatever.I've been called a covidiot so many times now I can't keep count. Now I'm supposed to engage in debate about how an imaginary 140 million Canadians get infected with covid becausei didn't wear a mask. I have heard it all.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Herd immunity never looked so good I think your math is in Lalaland. Whatever.I've been called a covidiot so many times now I can't keep count. Now I'm supposed to engage in debate about how an imaginary 140 million Canadians get infected with covid becausei didn't wear a mask. I have heard it all.

I never called you a covidiot. You are deflecting again. I only asked you to refute my claim that 1*1.5^365 is well over 200.

(1.5% growth per day for 365 days equals over two hundred, or, twenty thousand percent)

[Rockie]

You guys are the best possible argument for laws. Bitch all you want and exult in your own cleverness until you can’t hear people laughing at you anymore...but do as you’re told.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

You guys are the best possible argument for laws. Bitch all you want and exult in your own cleverness until you can’t hear people laughing at you anymore...but do as you’re told.

Oh lord, it's hard to be humble,
When you're perfect in every way.
Every morning I look in the mirror,
I get better looking each day.

[Rockie]

[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1147823">1147823</a> time=<a href="tel:1615943810">1615943810</a> user_id=5632]
You guys are the best possible argument for laws. Bitch all you want and exult in your own cleverness until you can’t hear people laughing at you anymore...but do as you’re told.

Oh lord, it's hard to be humble,
When you're perfect in every way.
Every morning I look in the mirror,
I get better looking each day.


[/quote]

I’m pro-science and I don’t think I’m more knowledgable about infectious disease prevention than people who study it as an advanced profession. Humility? Try some.

[airway]

As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.

Regarding masks, the scientists are still in a pissing match about it. You have one study that says one thing, and another that says something else.

By risk management, I am referring to decisions made by those of use who are not scientists caught in the middle.

Our decisions regarding masks are not based on "science". Between non-scientists, assessment of risks vary enormously.

Whether there should be a mandate or not... that is politics and therefore another topic.

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.




.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1147823">1147823</a> time=<a href="tel:1615943810">1615943810</a> user_id=5632]
You guys are the best possible argument for laws. Bitch all you want and exult in your own cleverness until you can’t hear people laughing at you anymore...but do as you’re told.

Oh lord, it's hard to be humble,
When you're perfect in every way.
Every morning I look in the mirror,
I get better looking each day.

I’m pro-science and I don’t think I’m more knowledgable about infectious disease prevention than people who study it as an advanced profession. Humility? Try some.

Sense of humour? Try one.

As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.

That is the definition of every professional.

[montado]

As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.

Regarding masks, the scientists are still in a pissing match about it. You have one study that says one thing, and another that says something else.

By risk management, I am referring to decisions made by those of use who are not scientists caught in the middle.

Our decisions regarding masks are not based on "science". Between non-scientists, assessment of risks vary enormously.

Whether there should be a mandate or not... that is politics and therefore another topic.

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.
.

I don't think you genuinely want to read studies that go against mask wearing. .. there are several.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779801/
In conclusion, there is a limited evidence base to support the use of masks and/or respirators in healthcare or community settings. Mask use is best undertaken as part of a package of personal protection, especially including hand hygiene in both home and healthcare settings. Early initiation and correct and consistent wearing of masks/respirators may improve their effectiveness. However, this remains a major challenge – both in the context of a formal study and in everyday practice.

It has long been known masks are very limited in effectiveness. Even in a hospital setting with medical professionals wearing medical grade masks, many studies come out showing masks make little difference.

To think that telling everyone to wear cloth masks is going to be an effective measure to control a pandemic is ridiculous. This is why you see all sorts of other measures taking place such as stay at home orders etc. Ontario had daily cases of sub 100 last summer. Masks were mandated and then cases started to rise.

Why did tam say masks don't work? Look at all the research she had to look at at the beginning of the pandemic. All these dumbasses hanging their snotty masks on their rear view mirrors lol. Anyone who thinks the mask is the go to measure during a pandemic should do some more reading. You know how many people told me masks work, just look at China.... They didn't realize people in China aren't wearing masks for the virus, they are wearing masks because the pollution.

[Rockie]

I have a sense of humour, but I lost it on this topic a long time ago looking at the death statistics and then confronting raging imbeciles detached from reality. I’m not laughing because it’s not remotely funny.

Oneyoung said “ As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.”, yet amazingly he can’t see the irony. He is not the expert In the plane’s systems, the people who built it are, so he is trained to follow procedure and definitely not make up his own. Yet he sees nothing wrong with it outside the plane.

[OneYonge]

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.

If you just read 2 studies from links you saw on this forum, you didn't actually do any science.
You saw things that were published by people who are smarter and know more than you.

If you say, well there are 2 of them, they say the same thing, and they look legit from true experts...That is a reasonable risk management decision. Not Science.

[montado]

[OneYonge]

I have a sense of humour, but I lost it on this topic a long time ago looking at the death statistics and then confronting raging imbeciles detached from reality. I’m not laughing because it’s not remotely funny.

Oneyoung said “ As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.”, yet amazingly he can’t see the irony. He is not the expert In the plane’s systems, the people who built it are, so he is trained to follow procedure and definitely not make up his own. Yet he sees nothing wrong with it outside the plane.

What are you talking about Rockie? It sounds like you are looking for something to argue about.
I am pretty sure knowing how to fly an airplane, does not make you a scientist.

[airway]

As pilots, we are the "experts" in our field and can already make decisions based on our knowledge and training. It is procedure.

Regarding masks, the scientists are still in a pissing match about it. You have one study that says one thing, and another that says something else.

By risk management, I am referring to decisions made by those of use who are not scientists caught in the middle.

Our decisions regarding masks are not based on "science". Between non-scientists, assessment of risks vary enormously.

Whether there should be a mandate or not... that is politics and therefore another topic.

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.
.

I don't think you genuinely want to read studies that go against mask wearing. .. there are several.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779801/
In conclusion, there is a limited evidence base to support the use of masks and/or respirators in healthcare or community settings. Mask use is best undertaken as part of a package of personal protection, especially including hand hygiene in both home and healthcare settings. Early initiation and correct and consistent wearing of masks/respirators may improve their effectiveness. However, this remains a major challenge – both in the context of a formal study and in everyday practice.

It has long been known masks are very limited in effectiveness. Even in a hospital setting with medical professionals wearing medical grade masks, many studies come out showing masks make little difference.

To think that telling everyone to wear cloth masks is going to be an effective measure to control a pandemic is ridiculous. This is why you see all sorts of other measures taking place such as stay at home orders etc. Ontario had daily cases of sub 100 last summer. Masks were mandated and then cases started to rise.

Why did tam say masks don't work? Look at all the research she had to look at at the beginning of the pandemic. All these dumbasses hanging their snotty masks on their rear view mirrors lol. Anyone who thinks the mask is the go to measure during a pandemic should do some more reading. You know how many people told me masks work, just look at China.... They didn't realize people in China aren't wearing masks for the virus, they are wearing masks because the pollution.

I do want to see a study yes. But not one that is 10 years old and is not focused on SARS. BTW, Tam reversed her recommendation to wear masks in May 2020

[airway]

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.

If you just read 2 studies from links you saw on this forum, you didn't actually do any science.
You saw things that were published by people who are smarter and know more than you.

If you say, well there are 2 of them, they say the same thing, and they look legit from true experts...That is a reasonable risk management decision. Not Science.

OK, I did not do any science. I just read about it. You got me.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I don't think you genuinely want to read studies that go against mask wearing. .. there are several.

I have no qualms around articles/studies that argue against mask wearing. But here's the issue: you have provided not one article that says masks are harmful. You have provided several that argue that they are ineffective, but none that argue they are harmful, at least not that I remember.

The only argument I see you have provided that masks are harmful, is that they provide a false sense of security - and you have yet to back that up with evidence.

[OneYonge]

Maybe you don't, but I try to make my decisions based on science. Both of the studies posted in this thread recommend wearing a mask.
Please post this study that says otherwise.

If you just read 2 studies from links you saw on this forum, you didn't actually do any science.
You saw things that were published by people who are smarter and know more than you.

If you say, well there are 2 of them, they say the same thing, and they look legit from true experts...That is a reasonable risk management decision. Not Science.

OK, I did not do any science. I just read about it. You got me.

Exactly. That's what I meant about our decisions are based on risk management.

If an expert has opposite evidence, then they settle that with the other experts.
It's not up to us to pick the "winner", otherwise we'd be experts too.

[montado]

I don't think you genuinely want to read studies that go against mask wearing. .. there are several.

I have no qualms around articles/studies that argue against mask wearing. But here's the issue: you have provided not one article that says masks are harmful. You have provided several that argue that they are ineffective, but none that argue they are harmful, at least not that I remember.

The only argument I see you have provided that masks are harmful, is that they provide a false sense of security - and you have yet to back that up with evidence.

I don’t think masks are really that harmful. Theres a few small things, like kids in school learning language etc will probably skip a few beats. Could you imagine being in grade one having to wear masks and look at a teacher in a mask all day? Yeah they will get a little bit fucked up... nothing that can’t be corrected after this is over.

Ya know... now that I think about it... this was all just about my freedumbs and liberty and my lack of giving a shit about anyone. You should really second guess everything I have said, put your mask back on and appreciate how everyone is doing their part! Covid will be over soon if everyone just wears a mask for a couple weeks. Y’all caught me, I must be a sociopath.

I can’t back up my theory that mask wearing makes people do things with a mask that they would not do without one... no idea, it’s just a guess... who cares I’m not an expert.I don’t understand why people care so much to win the argument that masks are effective. It doesn’t change the policy, those who don’t give a shit about masks still wear them because it is way more simple to function in society with the mask. Last thing I need is to be called a Karen and end up on YouTube for not wearing a mask at Costco. But it doesn’t change my belief in how idiotic this world has become. Covid has brought out many characters, myself included. I have learned a lot about my values and I find it somewhat fascinating how other people think so different from myself.

[OneYonge]

It doesn’t change the policy, those who don’t give a shit about masks still wear them because it is way more simple to function in society with the mask. Last thing I need is to be called a Karen and end up on YouTube for not wearing a mask at Costco.

Here is another example of a decision to wear a mask based on risk management.

If you are not convinced by the 99% of experts because the contrarians are convincing, there are other risky consequences to not wearing a mask. Including getting yelled at.

[Schooner69A]

Montado:

At the end of the link, the allegation that the masks are ineffective is rated as "FALSE"...

[airway]

Exactly. That's what I meant about our decisions are based on risk management.

If an expert has opposite evidence, then they settle that with the other experts.
It's not up to us to pick the "winner", otherwise we'd be experts too.

Exactly, that is why I base my decision to wear a mask because the majority of the covid experts recommend wearing one. Actually, nobody has posted a study yet on this thread that says that masks do not reduce the likelihood of getting or transmitting covid.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I don’t think masks are really that harmful. Theres a few small things, like kids in school learning language etc will probably skip a few beats. Could you imagine being in grade one having to wear masks and look at a teacher in a mask all day? Yeah they will get a little bit fucked up... nothing that can’t be corrected after this is over.

Ya know... now that I think about it... this was all just about my freedumbs and liberty and my lack of giving a shit about anyone. You should really second guess everything I have said, put your mask back on and appreciate how everyone is doing their part! Covid will be over soon if everyone just wears a mask for a couple weeks. Y’all caught me, I must be a sociopath.

I can’t back up my theory that mask wearing makes people do things with a mask that they would not do without one... no idea, it’s just a guess... who cares I’m not an expert.I don’t understand why people care so much to win the argument that masks are effective. It doesn’t change the policy, those who don’t give a shit about masks still wear them because it is way more simple to function in society with the mask. Last thing I need is to be called a Karen and end up on YouTube for not wearing a mask at Costco. But it doesn’t change my belief in how idiotic this world has become. Covid has brought out many characters, myself included. I have learned a lot about my values and I find it somewhat fascinating how other people think so different from myself.

Theres a few small things

Dammit, learn how to use apostrophes! Dammit, it's like a splinter in my brain!
Sorry. Attempting to inject humour.

See, you lose me when you talk about "freedumbs" (in the same way that "Trudoper McBlackface" loses me), and assuming that I'm accusing you of not giving a shit. I never accused you (to my recollection) of not giving a shit. I may not agree with you, but that doesn't mean you don't have a valid point. This may surprise you, but amongst the people I know, friends and family, I am the anti-masker (I hail from a very liberal family). Yeah sorry, the whole second paragraph you wrote there is just... it's the kind of appeal-to-the-lizard-brain argument that suggests to me that the rest of what you have to say can be dismissed - whether or not it should be.

But Montado, may I please ask you one question?

If you don't think masks are harmful, why argue against their use, even if they just make people feel safe? There's nothing inherently wrong with making a population feel safe, so long as the measures you take do not replace other, more effective measures (which you are very aptly arguing happens). See, we can't restart this world until people feel safe. I will assume for the purposes of this argument that masks do nothing but make people feel safe. I would argue then, that masks are essential for that reason, and that reason alone.

And if that is the only reason to wear masks, I can accept that. I don't think it is, but if it is, I can live with that.

[Rockie]

What are you talking about Rockie? It sounds like you are looking for something to argue about.
I am pretty sure knowing how to fly an airplane, does not make you a scientist.

Strange, it’s like you read what I write but understand the opposite.

I follow the science, which means I follow what scientists recommend. Unlike many here I do not think I know more about scientists respective fields than they do. I do not cherry pick single outlier studies that support my world view and present them as proof when consensus states the opposite. I do not cherry pick individual sentences or statistics within any study and present them as proof of my world view when the context of the study says the opposite. I do not take outlier studies as proof there is legitimate question of the consensus and make my own “risk assessment” when as you say, I don’t know more than they do.

Not following the science is literally killing people by the thousands and is the exact reason I confront wackos like reservetank. Yet somehow through all that you get the impression I think I’m a scientist? Amazing.

[montado]

I’m an an advocate that people deserve choice. I don’t really care about the mask itself. It doesn’t really bother me to wear one. I only engage in the debate to see who is willing to give up their freedoms for something that arguably has had very minimal effect to slow the spread of covid.

Most people have made it clear, they don’t even care if masks don’t work and if people feel safe they are happy enough with that. Well okay, good for you. That is not in line with my values, and I would always rather the truth even when it hurts, rather than live in a lalaland pretending fairy dust actions are saving the world.

Maybe worthy as a whole other topic is what have people learned about their values this past year due to covid.

I see that rockie lives in fear... and when fear fear fear makes you feel out of control you feel like you have to control other people. Rockie would encourage the most idiotic government policy even if it had only a 0.1 percent chance of working. It’s actually fascinating to see people’s behaviour come out.

After seeing this about people, I realize how much I actually value freedom and liberty. I realize how much I don’t really value government. I am happy to wear the mask if it saves us from mass hysteria. Or should I say more hysteria than we have already. The mask is not the problem, it’s actually people fear that’s the problem. The only way I can see a logical view of supporting the mask is not because of its efficacy to stop virus spread, but because the masks ability to calm fear among people. That’s my take.

[albertdesalvo]

Re: Ali G

Boring and unfunny. If you find this stuff amusing, you need medical assistance. Drivel.