How bad is commuting

[jpilot77]

Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.

I know lots of guys who do YOW to YUL but they drive.

What is the reserve call out time for the airline(s) you speak of? I thought it was 90 minutes and it’s about a 2 hour drive to YUL from YOW. Do they all still have a crash pad in YUL or have enough seniority to hold a line?

At AC it’s 2 hours from the call to check in so it’s actually 3 hours 15 minutes before push back. Also depending on what fleet you are on the reserve call outs may happen up to 3 days before. Reserve on the wide bodies is a lot less frantic then on the narrow body fleets (well right now they’re all very calm).

At the end of the day driving 1 1/2 - 2 hours even if on reserve (for myself) isn’t an issue.

[confusedalot]

Another short answer, no fun at all. To state the obvious, your life is to be at the service of an airplane and that is where it stops.

Had to do it like everyone else, in another life, will opt for another skillset where I could actually have a life.

Planes are fun, but not that fun.

[vov4ik_il]

TLDR If I had the choice, I would postpone living away from the base till I can hold a line and bid trips that will make commute work. Until then it is hard.

When just started, having a crash pad is almost unavoidable in order to absorb all the reserve times and stand-ups you will probably get while building seniority... Living in the base is a sweet luxury.
I used to have a terrible 3 leg commute (LBL-DEN-ORD) and even after having a line still only took 3-4 day trips (with just legal gaps) to be able to spend some time home. And I was extremely lucky because the junior base was NYC at the time, which would make you suffer even more...
It really depends if you have anything to do (balance) with the money you save and the time you have left in between and your ability to control your schedule (seniority).

[garfield]

If you can be home more than 50% of the time I think it's worth it.

Good luck

[Bug_Stomper_01]

As a younger junior pilot at 705 I often think of moving to cheaper places to get lower rent and/or buy a house. Being tied to the countries most expensive cities is tough somedays.

So those that have done it, what do you think of commuting by air or perhaps a looong drive. Not worth it? Most every one who does it that I've talked to has said DONT do it.

It sucks and it’s expensive. Do the math of your fuel bill and how much of your life you’ll be living in your vehicle. I did it for years and absolutely loathed it. You’re better off doing shift work (living at a crew house nearby for a few weeks on them home a few weeks off)

[andrewsymonds]

Hello everyone

YYZ based here. Thinking of moving to Kingston, ON and doing the long drive commute. It’s about 2.5 hours of driving. I’ll bid to avoid single days. Also have some family relatives living in the vicinity of Toronto, so worst case scenario I can stay there during late night checkouts or snow storms.

Is any one here a commuter from a Kingston or done a drive similar to in length?

Any advice would be much appreciated

Thank you

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Hello everyone

YYZ based here. Thinking of moving to Kingston, ON and doing the long drive commute. It’s about 2.5 hours of driving. I’ll bid to avoid single days. Also have some family relatives living in the vicinity of Toronto, so worst case scenario I can stay there during late night checkouts or snow storms.

Is any one here a commuter from a Kingston or done a drive similar to in length?

Any advice would be much appreciated

Thank you

I know a guy who lives in Trenton or Belleville (Can't remember which one) and I live in London, which is the same distance but just on the west side of YYZ. It's completely hit or miss whether the drive takes 1:30 or 3:00. Any snag with weather or a fender bender on the 401 will throw your timing right out the window.

My solution? I bid multi-day trips that have an early morning check-in. I then drive to YYZ the night before and stay in an Air Bnb or a hotel. That way, I'm only a short drive from the office the next morning. This all costs extra money mind you, but I just rationalize it as I COULD live a lot closer and not need a hotel, but then my mortgage would be much higher. I just factor the cost of the drive and hotels into my monthly household budget. It probably works out the same in the end, and I get to live where I want and be closer to friends and family. I used to live a lot closer to YYZ and found that on my days off I was driving to London to visit people anyways, so we just decided to move there.

Doing 5-7 day trips also limits the number of times I have to drive to YYZ in any given month. Looking back pre-COVID, that meant I made the drive on average 5 days per month, sometimes more in the Summer when we didn't have as many multi-day trips.

The hard part is that while you are technically driving to work, it may as well be the same as commuting from YVR. I have to drive in the night before just the same as someone jumpseating in from the west coast. There are days when we get back so late after a long duty day, that I'm too tired to make the drive home and have to get a hotel for some rest before driving home the next day. I used to tough it out and drive home no matter my fatigue or the weather, but having been in some hairy situations, I now just pull the plug and eat the cost of the hotel. This now means that 6 day trip is now 7 with the extra night away in a hotel.

The second factor (and maybe most important) is if you're on Reserve. I'm at the absolute limit of being able to make a 2-hour call-out. I have to have my bag packed and sitting by the door, and I sometimes spend my Reserve day at home in uniform in case I need to bolt out the door. I've never missed a reserve call-out, but these are the things you'll need to do to lower that stress level. More often than not, I can either pass down reserve or I don't get called at all, but being ready like a firefighter at the station waiting for the bell is just part of the game now. If you're on reserve, you'll definitely need a crash-pad close to YYZ.

Coming from YGK, you'd be even further away than me which just exacerbates the whole situation described above. If you can come to peace with the hoops you'll have to go through to keep your sanity on the 401 and not miss check-in, you'll be fine. But don't think you can get up at 2 AM for that 6:00 check-in, make that 3 hour drive, do a turn and then drive 3 hours home all in the same day.

[frog]

Typically, folks live in an affordable town and then, they found a 705 job in a big town and they start to commute.
Now I won't move to a small town in order to do a commute.
I commuted before. The stress of not knowing if you can get your flight, checking the loads etc...will eventually get you down even if you looove commuting.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

The stress of not knowing if you can get your flight, checking the loads etc...will eventually get you down even if you looove commuting.

He's specifically talking about the drive to YYZ, not jumpseat/non-rev commuting on an aircraft.

[Launchpad1]

How about living in YOW and based in YYZ?

I know that's even further than Kingston, and obviously you wouldn't want to be doing it daily, but does anyone here do that? Is it at all workable?

[DHC-1 Jockey]

How about living in YOW and based in YYZ?

I know that's even further than Kingston, and obviously you wouldn't want to be doing it daily, but does anyone here do that? Is it at all workable?

I'd say YOW-YYZ is one of the easiest flying commutes there are. You have around 12 flights daily from YOW to YYZ on AC or WJ. Plus, you have all of the Porter flights between YOW and YTZ, which you can then use the UP Express to get to YYZ. In the summer, I think they run a YOW-YTZ flight almost every hour, so that's between 20 and 30 options to choose from.

The flying commute adds complexity over and above the long drive. At least with driving, you're more in control of the situation. With flying, one flight cancellation or weather delay or mechanical issue could ruin your chances of making it to your base on time. With driving, you might hit unexpected traffic, but I've always just called crew sked and let them know I'd be a few minutes late. No harm, no foul. If you miss your flight though, you're not making it to work at all.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

As a younger junior pilot at 705 I often think of moving to cheaper places to get lower rent and/or buy a house. Being tied to the countries most expensive cities is tough somedays.

So those that have done it, what do you think of commuting by air or perhaps a looong drive. Not worth it? Most every one who does it that I've talked to has said DONT do it.

Done it several times in my career. Starting out it’s ok but once you’re more marketable and have more experience I say don’t do it. Anything over 45minutes one way is just a waste of time and energy

[Launchpad1]

I'd say YOW-YYZ is one of the easiest flying commutes there are. You have around 12 flights daily from YOW to YYZ on AC or WJ. Plus, you have all of the Porter flights between YOW and YTZ, which you can then use the UP Express to get to YYZ. In the summer, I think they run a YOW-YTZ flight almost every hour, so that's between 20 and 30 options to choose from.

The flying commute adds complexity over and above the long drive. At least with driving, you're more in control of the situation. With flying, one flight cancellation or weather delay or mechanical issue could ruin your chances of making it to your base on time. With driving, you might hit unexpected traffic, but I've always just called crew sked and let them know I'd be a few minutes late. No harm, no foul. If you miss your flight though, you're not making it to work at all.

Thanks for that! That's pretty much what I was thinking, plenty of flight options to choose from and worst comes to worst you could drive the 4 hours to work. I guess the other problem would be reserve and having to also have a place to stay because of that. Ottawa certainly seems like a nice city to live though and much cheaper than Toronto.

[DanWEC]

For YOW, depending on who your employer is, if a YUL base, or at least bidding for YUL starts is an option, it works out well too. Speed limit is upped to 110 on the 417. If you're near the highway it can be 1:30 to the parking lot.
Nice place to live but can get some real cold snaps in the winter. Strangely sleepy vibe in general too for such a large city, lot of gov't workers just milling around waiting around for retirement, but terrific for outdoor activities.
YOW airport is quick and easy. Property value in city limits is about 75% of metro YYZ right now but climbing faster.

[Skysurfer1]

Ex commuter here. Hated commuting. Lost years stressing about getting on my standby so ended up paying full fare to ease my mind. It’s expensive and time consuming, not to mention being on the go all the time.

I use to commute to another country. I did work rotational. It makes more sense commuting for rotational work.

I’m now on different equipment that’s non rotational and I live 15 min from the airport and it’s not a major airline city hub either. It’s wonderful. My quality of life is better, I’m saving money and my time is spent more wisely.

I don’t think I could fly for our national carrier simply for base choice because where I’m based with my current employer is simply the best.

[Adam Oke]

I live in London and commute to YYZ and used to commute to YTZ.

The best thing going for commuters is that the majority of pilots hate multi day pairings.

I found that in order to make my work life balance healthy; when working at YTZ I would bid 4 day pairings. I ran (3) 4 day pairings a month + (1) split for roughly 16 days off. I really enjoyed that schedule. You make the drive 4 times, and it's not too long away from home. Most hated the 4 days and the splits...so that was easy to hold.

Now I'm with a new company with higher credit and I bid (3) single days, (2) 2 days, and (1) 3 day resulting in 6 drives and 20 days off. I'm by no means senior either. I'm usually pretty consistent with the number of drives and days off. Quite manageable.

If you want less drives in, it is pretty easy to hold all the 6 or 7 day pairings. 2 or 3 drives in and you're done.

Reserve is not great. Last minute call outs are the worst. That being said it can all be mitigated by (a) calling crew sched the night before to see what's up, or (b) setting your alarm so you can check your schedule in order to make check in before they call. I have never been late for a reserve call out by doing this.

[flyinhigh]

Not going to read a bunch of pages, so if this is stated I’m just backing it up.

Questions really are
1) How important is an affordable cost of living to you?
2) Do you love where you currently are, or dream of somewhere else that’s not a big city airline base.
3) what does your family want?

Really answer those three questions and you’ll have your answer. I’ve commuted for years and for me it’s the only option.

I tried the YYZ thing as my wife got a great job in Mississauga so agreed give it a go. Epic failure and misery. Sure my drive was short, but that was it for us.

For me, when I’m on my commute flight home, get on the boat, have a cold beer with fresh air and no noise. That’s piece and it’s worth gold to me that I’ll never give it up. I’ll fly the north to keep that. Taking a job like that might not be glamorous but doing so, my life style, family, etc is the best which for us is where it’s at.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Post Covid anyone have insight on how commuting is for the major airlines in Canada: Westjet, AC and Transat (maybe a stretch saying major). Thanks!

[NotDirty!]

Post Covid anyone have insight on how commuting is for the major airlines in Canada: Westjet, AC and Transat (maybe a stretch saying major). Thanks!

0 stars… would not recommend.

[Inverted2]

Flights are crazy full lately. I wouldn’t want to commute by air. I have a 2 hour drive to the airport and bid 4 day pairings so I only drive once a week mostly. Also the AIFs make commuting by air more and more expensive. When I’m done my only stress is some summer construction traffic or some winter snow.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Post Covid anyone have insight on how commuting is for the major airlines in Canada: Westjet, AC and Transat (maybe a stretch saying major). Thanks!

As bad plus 20 points. Not worth it

[daedalusx]

Commuting has always been shit but it was actually fairly doable pre-2020. Now it’s an absolute gong show from hell, especially if for example, you’re working for the Teal team out East.
The days of cheap 70$ airport hotel with crew discount and only having 1 buffer flight before your pairing, are over and probably never coming back.
That said, as the boomers retires and replaced by the next gens who won’t be able to afford housing in the big cities, I think airline management will start thinking about bringing ports back or offer a better commute lifestyle in order to help with the recruitment.

[flyinhigh]

Commuting has always been shit but it was actually fairly doable pre-2020. Now it’s an absolute gong show from hell, especially if for example, you’re working for the Teal team out East.
The days of cheap 70$ airport hotel with crew discount and only having 1 buffer flight before your pairing, are over and probably never coming back.
That said, as the boomers retires and replaced by the next gens who won’t be able to afford housing in the big cities, I think airline management will start thinking about bringing ports back or offer a better commute lifestyle in order to help with the recruitment.

Meah, Porter has a commuting policy which is quite nice for myself

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Commuting has always been shit but it was actually fairly doable pre-2020. Now it’s an absolute gong show from hell, especially if for example, you’re working for the Teal team out East.
The days of cheap 70$ airport hotel with crew discount and only having 1 buffer flight before your pairing, are over and probably never coming back.
That said, as the boomers retires and replaced by the next gens who won’t be able to afford housing in the big cities, I think airline management will start thinking about bringing ports back or offer a better commute lifestyle in order to help with the recruitment.

Meah, Porter has a commuting policy which is quite nice for myself

What does the policy entail?

[flyinhigh]

Commuting has always been shit but it was actually fairly doable pre-2020. Now it’s an absolute gong show from hell, especially if for example, you’re working for the Teal team out East.
The days of cheap 70$ airport hotel with crew discount and only having 1 buffer flight before your pairing, are over and probably never coming back.
That said, as the boomers retires and replaced by the next gens who won’t be able to afford housing in the big cities, I think airline management will start thinking about bringing ports back or offer a better commute lifestyle in order to help with the recruitment.

Meah, Porter has a commuting policy which is quite nice for myself

What does the policy entail?

Not to go into all the details but 2 flight rule and if registered in the official program than you get access to the highest standby priority possible for that specific flight (I.e, I’m a high priority commuter for work, I bump a 16 year stby pilot even if only 3 month seniority).

There’s other aspects, but that’s the jist and only for Porter flights.